Infection_Ag11 said:

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larry culpepper said:

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But this all amounts to faults with republicans and emotional pleading, not an actual defense of abortion. Which is fine, unless it's actually used to defend abortion (or more primarily, attack the opposition on that basis).

Sure many republicans are hypocrites, and yes sex Ed/access to contraception needs to be optimized, and yes the foster care system is a poor one. NONE of that speaks in any way to whether abortion, and particularly later term abortions, is morally defensible.

The reality is these attacks, while many are valid, usually represent an attempt to avoid actually having to defend abortion.

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I guess it always comes back to the central point on whether abortion should be permissible, right? I'm at least glad you agree there are other issues in play here and how awful our foster system is. Seems like no one really cares about that.

my position is the mainstream one. In the early stages of pregnancy (<12 weeks, when over 90% of abortions actually happen), it is NOT a fully formed baby. It is intellectually dishonest to say a fertilized egg is the same as a fully formed baby. You CANNOT restrict a woman from seeking an abortion at this point. You just cant. It's her bodily autonomy. I do not care if that position offends people. I do not care if one's church/religion disagrees with it.

I have no defense for elective third trimester abortions.

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Of course an 8 week old fetus isn't the same thing as a baby. I maintain NOBODY actually believes that even if they say they do. If I know for a fact a baby is being murdered in the house across the street, there is very little I won't do to try and physically stop it. However he number of people breaking into abortion clinics, and in early stage abortions often just OB/GYN clinics, is exceedingly small. Like almost nobody is risking life and limb to stop abortion. Their actions prove they don't believe what they claim. Moreover, I'm not going to be the one to tell a 17 year old rape victim they can't have an abortion. Someone else can shoulder that.

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Or because they would be labeled a right wing extremist terrorist. taken to jail and persecuted for doing the right thing...

Most people would not go into that house. Most people are cowards. Most people would call the cops. If you call the cops on an abortionist you will be charged for wasting their time because baby murder is legal.

larry culpepper said:

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No it's not. They can say they care about kids all day long. Their actions contradict it.

They always vote down any funding that would go toward foster care, social programs for impoverished families, comprehensive sex ed, maternity leave, expanding medicaid. They wont budge an inch on this stuff. They think once abortion is banned, everything is sunshine and rainbows and their job is done.

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except that conservative donate more time and money to charities han liberals by a factor of 5 or more.

liberals just want the gov. to deal with it (which is horribly inefficient), conservatives actually use their wallets and hands to make it better.

it's a BS argument and always has been.

and yet it still remains a significant problem. there are not near enough adoptive families to meet the demand of unwanted children, and the foster system remains horribly broken.

"but we're charitable" means nothing if needs still are not even close to being met. and "government bad" isn't an excuse to do nothing. there are times when the government has to step up. Charities only go so far.

We have an inexcusably high maternal mortality rate, no paid maternity leave, no universally subsidized childcare, and Republicans ALWAYS vote against any efforts to improve on these issues. Consistently. because it's "socialism" or whatever bull**** excuse they have. Then they have the nerve to look you in the eye and say they are pro-life. No, they just want to force women to carry pregnancies to term, then think they are good people because they gave 5 dollars to the salvation army last Christmas.

TxAgPreacher said:

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wbt5845 said:

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God owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology.

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No, they got what they deserved. Ours is coming.

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All civilizations eventually fall, so you're gonna need to be more specific. Otherwise you're guaranteed to be right eventually.

both the left and the right suck at raising kids.
neither political parties nor governments will ever due the job of nurturing children any justice

there is little power to be had when you raise kids well and when you ask politics to take care your kids you get results like this youngin'



because power needs to reject and dismiss edge cases

Jason C. said:

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sharpdressedman said:

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"Abortication"...the newest niche market in the travel industry.

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Okay let's work on this. Cmon people.

Killcation?
Holidilation and extraction?
Touribortion?

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Abattourism.

larry culpepper said:

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and yet it still remains a significant problem. there are not near enough adoptive families to meet the demand of unwanted children, and the foster system remains horribly broken.

"but we're charitable" means nothing if needs still are not even close to being met. and "government bad" isn't an excuse to do nothing. there are times when the government has to step up. Charities only go so far.

We have an inexcusably high maternal mortality rate, no paid maternity leave, no universally subsidized childcare, and Republicans ALWAYS vote against any efforts to improve on these issues. Consistently. because it's "socialism" or whatever bull**** excuse they have. Then they have the nerve to look you in the eye and say they are pro-life. No, they just want to force women to carry pregnancies to term, then think they are good people because they gave 5 dollars to the salvation army last Christmas.

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So the answer to crappy parents whose kids get taken away is to give the government more money or kill the child before it's born?

There are millions of married couples looking to adopt a baby right now, but it costs a lot of money and their are more elligable parents then children to adopt. The foster system is not overrun with infants, it's over run with smaller children and teens who have crappy parents. Killing them before they are born isn't the problem.

And WTF are you talking about? Virtually every company in the country has paid maternity leave and the maternal mortality rate in the US is very low.

Why is your child care suddenly everyone else's problem? It wasn't a problem in the 50's when one parent stayed home and everyone wasn't a rabid consumer and needed two jobs to keep up. But yes, lets make it a government problem in addition to all the other money that's handed out the the 'poor' in this country.

Only liberals give $5 to the salvation army. Conservatives give far more to private charities and also they volunteer THEIR TIME to make a difference. I'm sorry you're feeling guilty b/c you suck and helping others and expect the taxpayer to fund your feel good programs.

My big tech employer is already virtue signalling to help relocate people who can't kill their babies where they live.

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So the answer to crappy parents whose kids get taken away is to give the government more money or kill the child before it's born?

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False dichotomy. and an excuse to do nothing.

Foster children exist. Get over it, accept reality, and deal with the problem.

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There are millions of married couples looking to adopt a baby right now, but it costs a lot of money and their are more elligable parents then children to adopt. The foster system is not overrun with infants, it's over run with smaller children and teens who have crappy parents. Killing them before they are born isn't the problem.

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Adoption is great, but it's an alternative to parenthood, not pregnancy. You have no right to hold a gun to a girl's head and force her to carry a pregnancy to term.

Also see above point re: foster system. "Crappy parents' just deflects the issue. It's still a problem, and just because "government bad" is your mentality isn't an excuse to ignore the issue completely. States with well funded foster care systems have better child placement with families and better functionality. Texas is an embarrassment.

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And WTF are you talking about? Virtually every company in the country has paid maternity leave and the maternal mortality rate in the US is very low.

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The maternal mortality rate in the USA is pretty bad by western standards. Texas even worse. The US is the only (or one of very few) country to not guarantee paid maternity leave. Many low income mothers dont get it, just unpaid leave, which they obviously cannot afford.

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Why is your child care suddenly everyone else's problem? It wasn't a problem in the 50's when one parent stayed home and everyone wasn't a rabid consumer and needed two jobs to keep up. But yes, lets make it a government problem in addition to all the other money that's handed out the the 'poor' in this country.

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Do I even need to say this? It's not the 50s anymore and times are very different. The vast majority of families cannot survive on one income anymore.

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Only liberals give $5 to the salvation army. Conservatives give far more to private charities and also they volunteer THEIR TIME to make a difference. I'm sorry you're feeling guilty b/c you suck and helping others and expect the taxpayer to fund your feel good programs.

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Whatever. Mock it all you want. Families/single mothers in need cannot rely on private charities. This is a very poor excuse to not dedicate funding and resources to the foster system and improve access to healthcare for children and mothers in need.

You can be sure that any "new benefit" provided to employees, unless legally mandated, has a meaningful benefit to the company. In this case, dead babies eliminate the requirement for costly maternity leave. Simple.

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The maternal mortality rate in the USA is pretty bad by western standards. Texas even worse. The US is the only (or one of very few) country to not guarantee paid maternity leave. Many low income mothers dont get it, just unpaid leave, which they obviously cannot afford.

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You beclown yourself with this. Each country reports their own mortality rates differently - and the US (when compared to the rest of the world) over-counts infant deaths. This is a well known issue, but the left chooses to throw out this 'stat' when it suits them.

As for paid maternity leave, you want to pay for it? OK, pass the bill - it's not that hard. You have control.