Remember when someone came here asking for advice and got actual recommendations from a few people with actual EV experiences, but then the two most EV obsessed posters on this site came with fire fear mongering nonsense? But remember, it's the EV owners with the agenda.

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Those lithium-ion batteries used to power Teslas and other electric vehicles have been in the headlines this year after several reports of EV's spontaneously catching on fire. There's not much data on how frequently it happens.

But Daly said his department has done trainings on how to properly respond.

"The firefighting is very different. It's really just cooling and containing," he said.

The car's owner told WFAA that they had just gotten a new battery from the Plano Tesla service center just hours before the fire. WFAA's Janel Forte went to the service center to ask about what happened, managers there declined to comment.

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This story goes so against the narrative EVangelists want people to consume.

Hybrids and gas cars are still more reliable than EVs. Don't believe the hype from the Tesla-obsessed people on here.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2024/12/05/consumer-reports-study-reveals-new-reliability-leader-evs-improving/

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The reliability of hybrids and internal combustion vehicles is outpacing battery electric vehicles, but EVs are improving, according to a new report Thursday from Consumer Reports.
…
Regarding electrified vehicles, plug-in hybrids performed better than battery-electrics, according to the report. But that's using a negative to illustrate a positive.

Plug-in hybrids had 70% more problems than pure hybrids and gas-powered vehicles, but that's down from a 146% difference in last year's study.

EVs improved at a slower rate, with 42% more problems than hybrids or gas-powered vehicles, showing only a 79% improvement from last year.
…
Some of the most reported issues with EVs were related to either powertrain or build quality related, but some models often from the legacy automakers that are newer to EV technology had battery issues that occasionally even required full battery pack replacement, Elek said.

In particular, owners of the Tesla Model X complained about incorrectly attached trim and misaligned doors, while Rivian R1t owners reported issues with doors and tailgates.

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Downplaying the significance of Consumer Reports incoming!

(It's pretty devastating BTW.)

Tesla is #1 (i.e. cheapest) in Maintenance and Repair costs from the same report. #3 in Consumer Satisfaction/would buy again.

hph6203 said:

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Tesla is #1 (i.e. cheapest) in Maintenance and Repair costs from the same report. #3 in Consumer Satisfaction/would buy again.

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Not bad for having so many problems.

Ag with kids said:

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MaxPower said:

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Surprised it isn't covered by warranty but yes this should at least be something considered by a buyer. If you are the type of person to keep a car for a decade then it may not be right for you. Prices for battery replacement should go down as more cars get on the road and people get used to replacing them but it's all speculation as to how much.

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My look at it was the used car market.

There are plenty of 10-20 year old vehicles on the road.

Having to replace a battery that costs $10K might might make prospective buyers hesitant.

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Can't speak to EVs other than Tesla. I calculate savings in fuel around $1000 for 10k miles, and I drive about 15k a year. So I will have saved $12k on fuel after 8 years. Maintenance also much cheaper, but just in fuel I will be able to afford over $12k for a new battery after 8 years if I want it. After 2 years, I haven't really lost any range, so I think the battery will last much longer than 8 years.

You're confused, your car caught fire and burned down your garage and your house and killed you. You're dead.

hph6203 said:

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Tesla is #1 (i.e. cheapest) in Maintenance and Repair costs from the same report. #3 in Consumer Satisfaction/would buy again.

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This is why you always read the links

Audi Q5 and A7 Plug in hybrid owners told not to plug their vehicles in…due to fire risk. "Thermal overload."

Shocking.

German EV sales plummet 22% in post-subsidy world. Tesla down 55%.

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Much of the current slump can be traced back to the German government's decision to end subsidies for electric cars at the end of 2023. At the time, Transport Minister Volker Wissing argued that the EV market should be able to stand on its own without public aid, claiming that permanent subsidies aren't a sustainable solution. It seems, however, the market isn't quite ready to walk unaided. As Germany grapples with its EV slowdown, eyes will turn to other major European markets, like France and Spain, where similar subsidy cuts are on the horizon for 2025. Will they see the same fate?

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Spoiler alert: yes they will.

Ehhh. Get a fire blanket. Right?

Probably a good idea. I didn't see any follow up to that Plano fire from a year ago, as to cause, but it was clearly the recently serviced/replaced battery I would think. Living very close to a fire station so trained probably saved their home. According to Duckduck assist:

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The cost of an EV fire blanket can vary significantly, with prices ranging from around $2,968 for a single-use blanket to approximately $5,743 for a reusable option. It's important to compare different brands and specifications to find the best fit for your needs.

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nortex97 said:

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Audi Q5 and A7 Plug in hybrid owners told not to plug their vehicles in…due to fire risk. "Thermal overload."

Shocking.

German EV sales plummet 22% in post-subsidy world. Tesla down 55%.

Quote:

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Much of the current slump can be traced back to the German government's decision to end subsidies for electric cars at the end of 2023. At the time, Transport Minister Volker Wissing argued that the EV market should be able to stand on its own without public aid, claiming that permanent subsidies aren't a sustainable solution. It seems, however, the market isn't quite ready to walk unaided. As Germany grapples with its EV slowdown, eyes will turn to other major European markets, like France and Spain, where similar subsidy cuts are on the horizon for 2025. Will they see the same fate?

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Spoiler alert: yes they will.

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Always read those links. Funny how it's still devastating when you do that.

Man after years of this thread and owning a tesla for over 100K miles, I will never understand those who hate Teslas when they have never driven it and have little knowledge other than what tik tock tells them.

I just shake my head at all the goal post moving. First it was expensive, not anymore. after about 10 more goal posts movements, its gone to some vague fires they see on tik tock. OK, sure go ahead. I can find videos of kids accidentally killing their siblings with dad's gun but it doesn't mean I go to the gun forum and chastise everyone who owns a gun.

It is quite embarrassing the lack of knowledge of the EV haters.

I have a mid 6 figure stake in Tsla stock and my bank account just continue to shake its head with all these Tesla haters. If I listened to all the doom and gloom about Tsla on this thread, I would have sold my Tesla stocks and left 6 figures on the table.

Bravo tesla haters. Keep it up. Last I checked Tesla Market Cap is 1.4T and #8 in the world. Mighty GM 58B. Ford 42B. Stellantis 40B. Tesla could cough, do a takeover of the big 3, bury it and their market cap would still be 1.2T.

Hate tesla if you like but the market has spoken and Tesla is the winner by a long shot. You may think tesla stinks, make bad cars, make dangerous cars, will not be profitable but facts shows you are wrong. You think Tesla is just a car company, facts shows you are wrong.

I mean, when are you guys going to give it up and just accept you are wrong. You guys sound like deranged people who thinks Amazon just sells books, Nvidia just makes graphic cards, google only does search. The ignorance is astounding.

Does that valuation make sense though? I see only a couple Teslas a day and they are 14th by sales volume. I've never been able to reconcile TSLA (or BTC for that matter).

Tsla is not a car company. Yeah, they started making cars just like amazon selling books.

I am sure the anti-Evers will name 10 reasons why they are a just car company. To this, I tell them they should short Tesla bc if they were, I would be shorting them like crazy right now. Many shorts have been killed. with this mindset and have lost their pants.

For me, I will continue to accumulate tsla stocks when it drops.

lead said:

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Does that valuation make sense though? I see only a couple Teslas a day and they are 14th by sales volume. I've never been able to reconcile TSLA (or BTC for that matter).

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If you think they produce cars on par with traditional cars, yeah. If you know they are a robotics, electric and ai company, no. Ignorance is insanity at this point.

lead said:

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Does that valuation make sense though? I see only a couple Teslas a day and they are 14th by sales volume. I've never been able to reconcile TSLA (or BTC for that matter).

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Either paying a significant premium for a car/battery business or getting an autonomous car and robot business at a deep discount.

BTC is either buying early into a new store of value asset or paying for something worth nothing.


Anyone that thinks investing in Tesla or buying BTC isn't risky is lying to themselves.

Investing in anything with a high PE multiple is risky with higher rewards. This is the definition of paying for what will happen in the future and not the present. Low PE companies are lower risks but they have a low PE for a reason which typically being a stagnant company with little growth.

NVDIA PE is 43. Tsla is 161. Pltr is 171. Ford is 6.

There is a reason Tsla is 161 vs Ford is 6. Tesla is NOT a car company. If you believe they will crack energy storage or Autonomous driving or Robotics then they are undervalued, very undervalued. IMO, if they achieve any of those 3, they are undervalued. I believe they will achieve all 3 before any other company at a large scale thus I think they are way undervalued.

When will they crack any of these 3, I am not sure. But I will keep putting money into the stock because they are by far the best of breed in all 3 by a large amount.

Premium said:

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lead said:

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Does that valuation make sense though? I see only a couple Teslas a day and they are 14th by sales volume. I've never been able to reconcile TSLA (or BTC for that matter).

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If you think they produce cars on par with traditional cars, yeah. If you know they are a robotics, electric and ai company, no. Ignorance is insanity at this point.

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Yeah, I have stated previously I actually want Tesla to succeed as I think they are a critical American company, but also don't intend to buy one of their cars ever for various reasons I've listed many times, yet the fan club seems oblivious or just to transfer any criticism of the risks/politics of BEV's into irrational hatred of a brand. I am also off put by the fanboyism we've seen displayed over the years by their owners (not here of course, but all the 'no gas' customers plates etc), but whatever, I can say the same thing about various makes/models too, yet don't consider those politics.

Anyway, whatever, there will continue to be innovative work-arounds to allow BEV owners to deal with how to live with their toys in ways they had envisioned. Only a matter of time until I see one of these in a Kroger parking lot around Frisco with some smug looking guy hopping out of the Rivian.


Gonna need a bigger fire blanket, though.

lead said:

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Does that valuation make sense though? I see only a couple Teslas a day and they are 14th by sales volume. I've never been able to reconcile TSLA (or BTC for that matter).

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You only see a couple of Teslas a day?

I have great respect for what you said and whatever reason you would not buy an EV or Tesla.

It is more that some on here jump and anything remotely negative and make it seem like the sky is falling.

Unless you are living under a rock, EVs are the future. Why let China be the leader when you have a US company that can out compete China. I never understand the Tsla or Elon bashing. We always tout made in America but then root against them.

The arrogance is astounding.

Fair enough, I just disagree about living under a rock.

Quote:

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Unless you are living under a rock, EVs are the future.

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This is one of those statements that goes unchallenged, but it's not so clear.

Future? 10 years? 100 years? What "future". We'd have decades of effort to build enough powerplants and expand the grid to service that "future".

Part of that "future" is reliance upon improvements in technology, e.g. batteries. How about other technologies that might improve enough to surpass battery powered evs? Fuel cell technology, although could be considered an "ev" it's not part of the current model, but could well surpass the current notion of an ev and be the "future".

It's also possible that some unforeseen development (if I knew what that was I'd be rich) will be "the future". Heck, star trek transporters, magnetic rail cars, I don't know - the issue is that predicting "the future" rarely works even for those not living under rocks.

In 1985 CDs were the future of recorded music if you weren't living under a rock. Thirty years later they were essentially irrelevant. It's like the 1870 prediction of life not being possible in New York City in 1970 because of no place to put the manure.

I'm still holding out hope for my Jetson flying car. Way better than the Flintstone mobile.

bobbranco said:

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The arrogance is astounding.

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You can call this arrogance but I believe conviction is more appropriate. This is why I actually use the product for 4+ years, back up my opinion, and have conviction to put a bunch of money into it.

Arrogance are those Never Evers who barely even tried the car out, sit in their armchair getting their info from tick tock, then telling owners that is a bad product. I have more respect for those who just come out and say its not for me then move on. I have more respect for those Never Evers who have conviction that it is a bad product to short the stock.

I don't fish, I have tried it but never enjoyed it. I would be a big loser jumping on a fishing thread telling everyone why fishing sucks and that they are wasting their time/Money. Only a loser who doesn't fish/like fishing would tell a fisherman that waking up at 5am in the cold sucks. Just go to HEB b/c its quicker and overall cheaper. Why are you buying the $500 fishing rod when a $10 amazon one would work just as well.

I would not wake up at 5am to fish but I would not tick tock 10 reasons then go to a message board telling people how to spend their time/money.

The government isn't trying to use bribes and red tape to force people to go fishing…

EV fanboys generally say they oppose the subsidies for EVs and the hand tying that happens with ICEs (states banning their sales, carbon tax, MPG limits, diesel emissions, etc) but they fail to ever acknowledge it in the stupid comparisons they come up with.

I wont speak for others, but I will oppose owning an EV as long as possible as long as the government is trying to coerce people to do it. That and they have yet to make an EV that even comes close to matching my needs for a vehicle.

coolerguy12 said:

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The government isn't trying to use bribes and red tape to force people to go fishing…

EV fanboys generally say they oppose the subsidies for EVs and the hand tying that happens with ICEs (states banning their sales, carbon tax, MPG limits, diesel emissions, etc) but they fail to ever acknowledge it in the stupid comparisons they come up with.

I wont speak for others, but I will oppose owning an EV as long as possible as long as the government is trying to coerce people to do it. That and they have yet to make an EV that even comes close to matching my needs for a vehicle.

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This debate has gone on forever. There are subsidies in many areas that no one really brings up. But I will agree that getting rid of subsidies would be great BUT the reason for it was to save the big 3 ICE business.

But if you oppose EVs b/c of principle or needs, then that is at least a great reason and good for you.

Its the never evers who tick tock every odd reason that never driven one.

Quick google tells me this is what the government subsidizes so the oil you use is subsidized. You are buying an ICE car that is subsidized through grants, low interest loans, bailouts. Why are you buying a big 3 car if subsidies are such a big hangup?

• Agriculture: The U.S. government heavily subsidizes domestic agriculture.
  
  
• Energy: The government subsidizes oil and energy producers.
  
  
• Housing: The government subsidizes some housing.
  
  
• Automakers: The government subsidizes automakers.
  
  
• Healthcare: The government subsidizes some healthcare, such as through Medicare.
  
  
• Transportation: The government subsidizes transportation.
  
  
• Mining: The government subsidizes mining.
  
  
• Student loans: The government offers subsidies for student loans to better society

Big fan of Elon and I'm happy Tesla has bounced back in the stock market.

Have to laugh at the arrogance of EV fanboys though who can't take any criticism of their favorite product and project and name call etc.

Good civil conversation here. Appreciate you fellas for keeping it clean.

You are too myopic to see the arrogance of telling someone who buys something that it sucks. Good luck going to the outdoor board telling people fishing sucks and tick tocking 10 reasons. Or football board telling them the sport sucks. Or finance telling people who spends too much is stupid because you can tick tock 10 reasons why saving money is great.

Highly arrogant and hypocritical to continue to post on a 3 year old thread coming back over and over telling people who likes a product and spends their own money why their purchase sucks.

God help me if I ever jump on an ICE thread telling everyone why ICE cars suck. What a poon. Put me out to pasture if I ever dog someone else's purchase with hundreds of posts over 3 years.

Medaggie said:

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You are too myopic to see the arrogance of telling someone who buys something that it sucks. Good luck going to the outdoor board telling people fishing sucks and tick tocking 10 reasons. Or football board telling them the sport sucks. Or finance telling people who spends too much is stupid because you can tick tock 10 reasons why saving money is great.

Highly arrogant and hypocritical to continue to post on a 3 year old thread coming back over and over telling people who likes a product and spends their own money why their purchase sucks.

God help me if I ever jump on an ICE thread telling everyone why ICE cars suck. What a poon. Put me out to pasture if I lever dog someone else's purchase with hundreds of posts over 3 years.

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I don't care what car you buy. You do you.

techno-ag said:

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I don't care what car you buy. You do you.

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You r200+ post says differently. Just look back. Its 95% Tesla, you have a deep hate for some reason. Its Ok to admit it. If you really didn't care what I buy, then why come on to post incessantly why it is so bad or labeling people who buy Teslas as EVangelists?

techno-ag said:

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Big fan of Elon and I'm happy Tesla has bounced back in the stock market.

Have to laugh at the arrogance of EV fanboys though who can't take any criticism of their favorite product and project and name call etc.

Good civil conversation here. Appreciate you fellas for keeping it clean.

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Almost exactly 2 months ago you posted that it was getting harder and harder to defend Tesla stock and mocked people for criticizing that take as low information. What you perceive as arrogance is often (not always) a massive knowledge gap between what you know and what the person you're arguing with knows. That happens often on this thread.

Stock is up ~92% since you posted that by the way.

hph6203 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Big fan of Elon and I'm happy Tesla has bounced back in the stock market.

Have to laugh at the arrogance of EV fanboys though who can't take any criticism of their favorite product and project and name call etc.

Good civil conversation here. Appreciate you fellas for keeping it clean.

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Almost exactly 2 months ago you posted that it was getting harder and harder to defend Tesla stock and mocked people for criticizing that take as low information. What you perceive as arrogance is a massive knowledge gap between what you know and what the person you're arguing with knows. That happens often on this thread.

Stock is up ~92% since you posted that by the way.

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Devastating.

hph6203 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Big fan of Elon and I'm happy Tesla has bounced back in the stock market.

Have to laugh at the arrogance of EV fanboys though who can't take any criticism of their favorite product and project and name call etc.

Good civil conversation here. Appreciate you fellas for keeping it clean.

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Almost exactly 2 months ago you posted that it was getting harder and harder to defend Tesla stock and mocked people for criticizing that take as low information. What you perceive as arrogance is a massive knowledge gap between what you know and what the person you're arguing with knows. That happens often on this thread.

Stock is up ~92% since you posted that by the way.

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yeah, its just weird how some can be so myopic. Best not to debate when you show ignorance on every statement. This is the definition of arrogance.