Edited: Not getting into it.
I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.
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Last: 23 min ago by techno-ag
Why EV's are leased about half the time: Government subsidies/CCP batteries not an issue for lease subsidies (not mentioned; EV customers often are not good at financial analyses.)
Quote:
What they're saying: "As the influx of new-vehicle inventory persists, a wider range of models are becoming available and dealers and manufacturers are leaning back into leasing as a way to move metal," said Melinda Zabritski, Experian's head of automotive financial insights.
The catch: A customer's FICO score has to be pretty strong to qualify for this subsidized financing. Borrowers on the lower end of the credit score spectrum may not score those rates that's where EVs step in:The reason? Government tax credits.
- EVs reached 8.35% of new purchases and are leased nearly half the time.
- TransUnion reports that from Q2 2021 to Q2 2024, the percentage of EVs leased went from 20.9% to 48.7%.
How it works: Unlike new EV loans, EV leases skirt some of the stricter requirements for being eligible for the $7,500 tax credit.
- EV leases are not susceptible to the household income rules limiting access to the credit.
- New EV loans require non-China battery contents. Not a concern for EV leases.
- There are also restrictions on vehicle prices in order to qualify, but every EV lease is eligible.
Europe's EV/hybrid market collapse:
Quote:
The declining demand for EV's in Europe
That is the situation in Europe, where the European Automobile Manufacturers' Association (ACEA), which represents the interests of 15 major Europe-based automotive brands, including icons like BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault, Volkswagen, and others, is sounding the alarm about a steady slide in EV sales now turning into a precipitous freefall.
So far this year, unit sales for true EVs are down 8.4%, and this decline has been ongoing for a while. The situation is even bleaker for hybrids, with sales down nearly 14% compared to last year.
ACEA has pleaded with European lawmakers to provide relief and ease the burden of CO2 reduction laws on vans and buses that will come into effect leading into the new year. They also called for a review of light and heavy-duty vehicle rules slated for 2026 and 2027, urging that these discussions be moved up to the next year.
Somewhat ironically, much of this shift is likely driven by (a) the impact of the Russia proxy war the Euro's have vigorously supported (and attendant spike in their electrical costs), and (b) the pending Chinese invasion (with their own EV's) where many Euro's I think are sitting on the sideline waiting for the cheaper Chinese competitors en masse.Quote:
That may only be part of the concern. ACEA also reports that the entire EV market, not just the share controlled by its members, is in a continuing and accelerating downturn. The report lists several compounding factors, including:
- A lack of charging infrastructure
- Insufficient green energy production
- Uncompetitive manufacturing laws
- The structure of purchase and tax incentives for buyers
- Insecurity and uncertainty over access to raw materials, especially for batteries
- Poor economic growth
- Consumer acceptance of EVs
- Lack of consumer confidence in Europe's commitment to developing infrastructure in a timely manner
Never expected my rant to go this long...much less be that vindicated in the process.
aggiehawg said:
Never expected my rant to go this long...much less be that vindicated in the process.
Vindicated in regards to what exactly?
I see these charging stations going the way of air pumps where it seems like 2 of every 3 I try are busted. Only a matter of time. There's a 25% inoperable rate already, right? And that's in a relatively new stage.
Depends. Tesla superchargers are very well maintained. It's rare you'll find a single stall inoperative. And if it is you can see it offline in real time. Or even if it's occupied.
Teslag said:
Depends. Tesla superchargers are very well maintained. It's rare you'll find a single stall inoperative. And if it is you can see it offline in real time. Or even if it's occupied.
LOL.
https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2024/05/11/at-least-5-tesla-supercharger-locations-targeted-across-houston-in-less-than-a-week-but-motive-remains-unclear/
So your big gotcha is 4 month article about theft, not maintenance, which included this blurb about them all be repaired and functional that same day?
Quote:
The chargers are back up and running now, and they've been working all evening. The scene this morning was a different story, as Tesla drivers were notified that the station was closed after its two dozen cables had been clipped.
Teslag said:
So your big gotcha is 4 month article about theft, not maintenance, which included this blurb about them all be repaired and functional that same day?Quote:
The chargers are back up and running now, and they've been working all evening. The scene this morning was a different story, as Tesla drivers were notified that the station was closed after its two dozen cables had been clipped.
LOL.
Your claim...
" It's rare you'll find a single stall inoperative. "
LOL.
They were inoperative. Stop your fanboi foaming.
aggiehawg said:
Never expected my rant to go this long...much less be that vindicated in the process.
You drew out all that EV fanboi crowd. I even believe a poster changed their username in response to your OP!
bobbranco said:Teslag said:
So your big gotcha is 4 month article about theft, not maintenance, which included this blurb about them all be repaired and functional that same day?Quote:
The chargers are back up and running now, and they've been working all evening. The scene this morning was a different story, as Tesla drivers were notified that the station was closed after its two dozen cables had been clipped.
LOL.
Your claim...
" It's rare you'll find a single stall inoperative. "
LOL.
They were inoperative. Stop your fanboi foaming.
A four month old instance of vandalism repaired in hours only supports my claim.
I can see tesla's motivation to keep them operating…for now at least when still looking to gain market. But this is eventually going to be an incredibly expensive network to maintain. People suck. Unsupervised stations will be an issue. Jackasses just being sloppy and leaving devices on the ground. Weather. Gonna be expensive to keep that inoperable rate reasonably low. Already at 20-25% per a number of studies
Superchargers are profit centers for Tesla. That's their motivation to keep them running.
Teslag said:aggiehawg said:
Never expected my rant to go this long...much less be that vindicated in the process.
Vindicated in regards to what exactly?
That EVs are trash and not ready for the average car driver
Philip J Fry said:Teslag said:aggiehawg said:
Never expected my rant to go this long...much less be that vindicated in the process.
Vindicated in regards to what exactly?
That EVs are trash and not ready for the average car driver
Depends on the driver and their situation. There is no "average car driver".
Quote:
Already at 20-25% per a number of studies
That's for all chargers, not Teslas network.
What a bizarre statement. Of course there's an average user.
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
Please let us know.
Teslag said:bobbranco said:Teslag said:
So your big gotcha is 4 month article about theft, not maintenance, which included this blurb about them all be repaired and functional that same day?Quote:
The chargers are back up and running now, and they've been working all evening. The scene this morning was a different story, as Tesla drivers were notified that the station was closed after its two dozen cables had been clipped.
LOL.
Your claim...
" It's rare you'll find a single stall inoperative. "
LOL.
They were inoperative. Stop your fanboi foaming.
A four month old instance of vandalism repaired in hours only supports my claim.
It does not. But keep up the delusion. The problem is worldwide.
https://insideevs.com/news/719834/tesla-supercharger-copper-cables-vandalized/
https://thedriven.io/2024/03/22/ev-culture-war-ford-ranger-driver-arrested-for-vandalising-four-tesla-superchargers/
So for further proof you had to go back 6 months this time, to the southern hemisphere to find this completely common occurrence?
And while you're having to literally scour the internet for old stories showing a rare incident of superchargers being down, those of us who own them can quite literally open our Tesla apps and see a plethora of stall availability around us in real time.
That's how we know you're full of it.
That's how we know you're full of it.
Teslag said:
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
It's an IQ and ability to use technology issue. There is an average user.
Premium said:Teslag said:
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
It's an IQ and ability to use technology issue. There is an average user.
This is a handwave and the fact you won't tell us the habits of the "average driver" is telling.
Teslag said:Quote:
Already at 20-25% per a number of studies
That's for all chargers, not Teslas network.
Ok. So the others are performing even worse
Nice. A map that tells me nothing about offline or occupied or Tesla.Teslag said:
And while you're having to literally scour the internet for old stories showing a rare incident of superchargers being down, those of us who own them can quite literally open our Tesla apps and see a plethora of stall availability around us in real time.
That's how we know you're full of it.
Teslag said:Premium said:Teslag said:
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
It's an IQ and ability to use technology issue. There is an average user.
This is a handwave and the fact you won't tell us the habits of the "average driver" is telling.
Well, this is my first comment in a month on this topic, so I haven't avoided anything. I gave you two things that make an average driver, here is a third::
It's also an emotional feeling for many. Fear.
This is the Supercharger location tab of the Tesla phone app. Each red dot is a supercharger location. Each number represents an available stall. You can also click them for additional information such as max charging speeds, price per kwh, peak times, photos of the location, and nearby amenities. And if a charger is down, it can show you that too.
A Tesla owner has complete knowledge of real time Supercharger details instantaneously at all times.
A Tesla owner has complete knowledge of real time Supercharger details instantaneously at all times.
DannyDuberstein said:Teslag said:Quote:
Already at 20-25% per a number of studies
That's for all chargers, not Teslas network.
Ok. So the others are performing even worse
Yes basically, the charging location issues exist pretty much exclusively to non-Tesla chargers.
Premium said:Teslag said:Premium said:Teslag said:
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
It's an IQ and ability to use technology issue. There is an average user.
This is a handwave and the fact you won't tell us the habits of the "average driver" is telling.
Well, this is my first comment in a month on this topic, so I haven't avoided anything. I gave you two things that make an average driver, here is a third::
It's also an emotional feeling for many. Fear.
.So you have provided no actual data or metrics for the "average driver"? Expected, but not surprised.
Teslag said:Premium said:Teslag said:Premium said:Teslag said:
What is the average driver's commuting distance? Yearly trips of 500 or more miles? Single family resident or multi? One household vehicle or two? Rural or urban location? Kids? How many? Income? Vehicle purchase price range?
Please let us know.
It's an IQ and ability to use technology issue. There is an average user.
This is a handwave and the fact you won't tell us the habits of the "average driver" is telling.
Well, this is my first comment in a month on this topic, so I haven't avoided anything. I gave you two things that make an average driver, here is a third::
It's also an emotional feeling for many. Fear.
.So you have provided no actual data or metrics for the "average driver"? Expected, but not surprised.
Focus groups aren't metrics, I've seen enough in action to state these three things with confidence.
Do you dispute any of these? What argument are you trying to win?
That there is no "average driver". Driver habits and needs determine buying choices.
Teslag said:
That there is no "average driver". Driver habits and needs determine buying choices.
Everyone is arguing two different things. My argument is an average driver ability to convince themselves to go EV.
Yours is average driving habits.
Based on those metrics an EV is perfectly suited for the "average driver".
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