techno-ag said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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So they have a 12 volt battery to power the electronics like an ICE car in a car sitting on a gigantic battery pack? LOL...Somebody should tell Tesla engineers about transformers and inverters. Seriously WTF?

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How do you think they charge the 12 volt???? Remember there is no alternator in the car. You get one guess.

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Using a transformer or inverter that is already pulling from a massive 300-400 volt battery that gives them near endless 12 VDC on tap without the need for a separate battery. Seems like poor engineering to me. If it's a power consumption issue caused by the inverter, it seems like they could easily engineer around that. The fact that the car bricks when that little 12 VDC battery dies is insane and a huge safety issue as evidenced by this article. Even if there is a work around, it is clearly known by few people.

I say the same about the idiotic 10 minute idle limit on my Silverado. It will turn off while idling in the summer heat. If someone were to leave their child or animal inside (rightly or wrongly, not here to debate that) they could bake to death over some idiotic emissions control limitation.

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Or they could, you know, have physically linked door handles instead of electric ones.

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Agreed, but if nothing else, they could trickle charge that battery when they car is off whenever the voltage drops below a limit likely in the 12 - 12.5VDC range. If it reads above that limit but drops below it when someone puts a load on it by say unlocking the car (meaning there's a likelihood of a bad cell or other battery failure) then, the inverter kicks on and supplies the required voltage.

I'm really surprised this is an issue on a Tesla and makes me wonder if there isn't some other system failure besides the bad battery.

aggieforester05 said:

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techno-ag said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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So they have a 12 volt battery to power the electronics like an ICE car in a car sitting on a gigantic battery pack? LOL...Somebody should tell Tesla engineers about transformers and inverters. Seriously WTF?

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How do you think they charge the 12 volt???? Remember there is no alternator in the car. You get one guess.

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Using a transformer or inverter that is already pulling from a massive 300-400 volt battery that gives them near endless 12 VDC on tap without the need for a separate battery. Seems like poor engineering to me. If it's a power consumption issue caused by the inverter, it seems like they could easily engineer around that. The fact that the car bricks when that little 12 VDC battery dies is insane and a huge safety issue as evidenced by this article. Even if there is a work around, it is clearly known by few people.

I say the same about the idiotic 10 minute idle limit on my Silverado. It will turn off while idling in the summer heat. If someone were to leave their child or animal inside (rightly or wrongly, not here to debate that) they could bake to death over some idiotic emissions control limitation.

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Or they could, you know, have physically linked door handles instead of electric ones.

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Agreed, but if nothing else, they could trickle charge that battery when they car is off whenever the voltage drops below a limit likely in the 12 - 12.5VDC range. If it reads above that limit but drops below it when someone puts a load on it by say unlocking the car (meaning there's a likelihood of a bad cell or other battery failure) then, the inverter kicks on and supplies the required voltage.

I'm really surprised this is an issue on a Tesla and makes me wonder if there isn't some other system failure besides the bad battery.

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Either that or the battery had a catastrophic failure that would make it to where it could receive or discharge electricity.

There are other similar car designs that have the benefit of making it much harder to steal or break by picking a lock or using a slim jim to get into a car but in this rare case, you can endanger a child or animal that is unable to use the mechanical locks inside.

Almost half of EV drivers want to switch back to ICE vehicles.

Quote:

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Nearly half of American owners of electric cars want to switch back to traditional cars powered by internal combustion engines, according to a consumer survey released by McKinsey and Co. earlier this month.

The consulting firm surveyed consumers in multiple countries: the U.S., China, Germany, Norway, Australia, France, Italy, Japan and Brazil. Between all of those countries, 29% of electric car owners want to return to driving internal combustion cars, with 46% of surveyed American electric car owners wanting to do so.

This surprised the consulting firm, cutting against received wisdom about people's switch to electric.

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Wow.

I sell fuel, but believe in EV for many scenarios. However, your family should always have 1-2 ice vehicles in all circumstances. Relying on EV on anything other than running short predictable commutes and routes is insane.

nortex97 said:

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Almost half of EV drivers want to switch back to ICE vehicles.

Quote:

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Nearly half of American owners of electric cars want to switch back to traditional cars powered by internal combustion engines, according to a consumer survey released by McKinsey and Co. earlier this month.

The consulting firm surveyed consumers in multiple countries: the U.S., China, Germany, Norway, Australia, France, Italy, Japan and Brazil. Between all of those countries, 29% of electric car owners want to return to driving internal combustion cars, with 46% of surveyed American electric car owners wanting to do so.

This surprised the consulting firm, cutting against received wisdom about people's switch to electric.

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Wow.

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Devastating.

So where is our favorite EV Pusher? Catch a perma?

Posted by a friend of mine this evening:

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179 miles to Austin? No problem, you got 206 on your charge.
Battery draining faster because of the A/C since it's 95 degrees out? No problem, there's a Buc-cee's with charging stations.

All the stations are Tesla? No problem, your Ariya can use them, as advertised.
Tesla cables have a different shaped plug so they won't fit into your Ariya? No problem, those are the old stations. The new ones come with adapters.

Tesla app says there's no stations nearby because these one are brand new and not connected to the system yet according to the Buc-cee's employee? No problem, just....um...find a different station?
There's no non-Tesla stations in Bastrop, and therefore no guarantee any other station you drive to won't have the same problem, and you're still 59 miles from your destination but only have 33 miles left? OK, no problem. Maybe call Tesla customer service about the app.

Customer service not open? No...problem. Call Nissan. They'll know how to identify charging stations before you commit to driving to one.

Their customer service is also not open? .................Google it! Type in the addresses of the charging stations and use the street view feature to actually look at them and see if they're Tesla or not.
You found one 18 miles away? Perfect! See? No troubles at all. Way of the future.

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Premium said:

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I sell fuel, but believe in EV for many scenarios. However, your family should always have 1-2 ice vehicles in all circumstances. Relying on EV on anything other than running short predictable commutes and routes is insane.

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What is a "short" commute in your opinion?

Ryan the Temp said:

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Posted by a friend of mine this evening:

Quote:

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179 miles to Austin? No problem, you got 206 on your charge.
Battery draining faster because of the A/C since it's 95 degrees out? No problem, there's a Buc-cee's with charging stations.

All the stations are Tesla? No problem, your Ariya can use them, as advertised.
Tesla cables have a different shaped plug so they won't fit into your Ariya? No problem, those are the old stations. The new ones come with adapters.

Tesla app says there's no stations nearby because these one are brand new and not connected to the system yet according to the Buc-cee's employee? No problem, just....um...find a different station?
There's no non-Tesla stations in Bastrop, and therefore no guarantee any other station you drive to won't have the same problem, and you're still 59 miles from your destination but only have 33 miles left? OK, no problem. Maybe call Tesla customer service about the app.

Customer service not open? No...problem. Call Nissan. They'll know how to identify charging stations before you commit to driving to one.

Their customer service is also not open? .................Google it! Type in the addresses of the charging stations and use the street view feature to actually look at them and see if they're Tesla or not.
You found one 18 miles away? Perfect! See? No troubles at all. Way of the future.

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Or drive an ICE vehicle and have zero ****s to give about all those stupid worries.

Get an EV, or don't. There are pros and cons to both ICE and EV.

I always spill a half cup of gasoline on the ground after filling up to negate the effects of terrible EVs. Whisky has the angel's share. I give the Democrats share.

Ciboag96 said:

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I always spill a half cup of gasoline on the ground after filling up to negate the effects of terrible EVs. Whisky has the angel's share. I give the Democrats share.

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GAC06 said:

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Premium said:

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I sell fuel, but believe in EV for many scenarios. However, your family should always have 1-2 ice vehicles in all circumstances. Relying on EV on anything other than running short predictable commutes and routes is insane.

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What is a "short" commute in your opinion?

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Interesting....

Nearly half of American EV owners want to switch back to gas-powered vehicle, McKinsey data shows https://t.co/UsDKUmInFI

— FOX Business (@FoxBusiness) June 26, 2024

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McKinsey & Co.'s Mobility Consumer Pulse for 2024, released this month, found that 46% of EV owners in the U.S. said they were "very" likely to switch back to owning a gas-powered vehicle in their next purchase.

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Evidently Virginia already has a highway use fee tax for hybrids and EVs.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

Had to pay $60 some for daughter's prius.

Or you can enroll and the state will send a device for you car to track miles. Current tax is up to 11,600 miles and EVs are being taxed 1 cent per mile.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Evidently Virginia already has a highway use fee tax for hybrids and EVs.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

Had to pay $60 some for daughter's prius.

Or you can enroll and the state will send a device for you car to track miles. Current tax is up to 11,600 miles and EVs are being taxed 1 cent per mile.

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I am surprised they are doing it for hybrids like a Prius that still buy a decent amount of gas.

StandUpforAmerica said:

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Interesting....

Nearly half of American EV owners want to switch back to gas-powered vehicle, McKinsey data shows https://t.co/UsDKUmInFI

— FOX Business (@FoxBusiness) June 26, 2024

Quote:

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McKinsey & Co.'s Mobility Consumer Pulse for 2024, released this month, found that 46% of EV owners in the U.S. said they were "very" likely to switch back to owning a gas-powered vehicle in their next purchase.

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This isn't surprising for true EV owners.

They're probably why sales of hybrids are doing well, because people get the best of both (gas and electricity) worlds.

Kansas Kid said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Evidently Virginia already has a highway use fee tax for hybrids and EVs.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

Had to pay $60 some for daughter's prius.

Or you can enroll and the state will send a device for you car to track miles. Current tax is up to 11,600 miles and EVs are being taxed 1 cent per mile.

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I am surprised they are doing it for hybrids like a Prius that still buy a decent amount of gas.

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Is CPG still selling his Miata?

StandUpforAmerica said:

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Interesting....

Nearly half of American EV owners want to switch back to gas-powered vehicle, McKinsey data shows https://t.co/UsDKUmInFI

— FOX Business (@FoxBusiness) June 26, 2024

Quote:

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McKinsey & Co.'s Mobility Consumer Pulse for 2024, released this month, found that 46% of EV owners in the U.S. said they were "very" likely to switch back to owning a gas-powered vehicle in their next purchase.

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Poll after poll backs this up.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Evidently Virginia already has a highway use fee tax for hybrids and EVs.

https://www.dmv.virginia.gov/vehicles/taxes-fees/mileage-choice

Had to pay $60 some for daughter's prius.

Or you can enroll and the state will send a device for you car to track miles. Current tax is up to 11,600 miles and EVs are being taxed 1 cent per mile.

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I am surprised they are doing it for hybrids like a Prius that still buy a decent amount of gas.

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Is CPG still selling his Miata?

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I will ask him next time he is in town.

Documentary about indigenous people in Bolivia hand mining the zinc and other metals used in EV batteries.

Bolivia is the second largest exporter of zinc and these mines have been in operation since the Spanish conquistadors.

Oil and gas doesn't have a great track record, but from a human rights perspective I don't see how the green energy people manage to do what they do as well as they do it.

EV and green energy is the greatest marketing job of all time, second to covid.

EVs are dangerous and do not believe any commentary to the contrary (our resident loves forced government).

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Documentary about indigenous people in Bolivia hand mining the zinc and other metals used in EV batteries.

Bolivia is the second largest exporter of zinc and these mines have been in operation since the Spanish conquistadors.

Oil and gas doesn't have a great track record, but from a human rights perspective I don't see how the green energy people manage to do what they do as well as they do it.

EV and green energy is the greatest marketing job of all time, second to covid.

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Isn't zinc overwhelmingly used for purposes other than batteries?

"Zinc is necessary to modern living, and, in tonnage produced, stands fourth among all metals in world production - being exceeded only by iron, aluminum, and copper. Zinc uses range from metal products to rubber and medicines. About three-fourths of zinc used is consumed as metal, mainly as a coating to protect iron and steel from corrosion (galvanized metal), as alloying metal to make bronze and brass, as zinc-based die casting alloy, and as rolled zinc. The remaining one-fourth is consumed as zinc compounds mainly by the rubber, chemical, paint, and agricultural industries."

https://www.usgs.gov/centers/national-minerals-information-center/zinc-statistics-and-information

Interesting video. There is work on zinc based batteries as an alternative to Lithium. As of now, the only material use of zinc in EVs would be for galvanized steel which is also used in ICE. By far the largest use of zinc is galvanizing so if we want to close down mines like this and put the people out of work, we need to stop using galvanized steel.

And do away with pennies. They are 97.5% zinc

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-toxic-emissions-san-francisco-bay-area-plant/

Irony.

Quote:

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Tesla must fix air quality problems at its electric vehicle manufacturing facility in the San Francisco Bay Area after racking up more than 100 violations for allegedly releasing toxic emissions into the atmosphere over the last five years, an air quality board said Tuesday.

The Bay Area Air Quality Management District planned to issue a written abatement order later this week after Tuesday's announcement. Each of the 112 violations can emit hundreds of pounds of illegal air pollution, the board said.

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Do you realize what almost all those emissions relate to within the manufacturing process?
I.e. this isn't the devastating issue you think it is.

Kansas Kid said:

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Do you realize what almost all those emissions relate to within the manufacturing process?
I.e. this isn't the devastating issue you think it is.

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Why don't you share and spare us the suspense? Or maybe you don't know.

Corner Post said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Do you realize what almost all those emissions relate to within the manufacturing process?
I.e. this isn't the devastating issue you think it is.

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Why don't you share and spare us the suspense? Or maybe you don't know.

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Here you go. This has been a well known issue with the plant for years.

"Air district officials say the facility's two painting shops have been the source of uncontrolled releases of smog-forming pollution and toxic chemicals over the years."
Needless to say, a paint shop has nothing to do with EVs. Musk will play fast and loose with regulations as shown at his other companies. In his eyes, speed is everything even at the expense of safety and environmental regs. I would love to see if the violations cited by CA would even be violations if the plant was located in Texas, MI, TN, or any other other states where cars are manufactured.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-05-16/tesla-california-factory-air-quality-violations

He's starting to understand. He's not fully there yet, but getting closer. At the very least they're heavily copying Tesla, which is a smart move.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2024/06/should-electric-vehicles-be-illegal.php

Quote:

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Wide receiver Randall Cobb and his family escaped a fire at their Nashville, Tennessee, home this week, with his wife, Aiyda, posting, "we are lucky to be alive."

Aiyda Cobb posted to her Instagram story this week that a Tesla charger "caught fire in the garage late last night and quickly spread" through their home.

"We got out of the house with nothing but the clothes on our back and no shoes on our feet," she wrote.

Electric vehicle batteries, like the large batteries used to store electricity from inept sources like wind and solar, are prone to burst into flame. And those fires are hard to extinguish. Out of curiosity, I googled "battery fire." Here is a sampling of news headlines from the last 36 hours:

Driver sustained major injuries after colliding with a tree in an EV vehicle that caught fire.

Fiery Tesla Crash Poses Unique Challenges for Firefighters Near Anderson Valley.

Crews respond to battery fire at East Penn facility.

Man critically hurt in Brooklyn fire, e-bike battery probed as cause.

U.S. safety board probes fatal Tesla accident in Florida.

Baseus power banks recalled after dozens of fires, 13 burn injuries.

E-bike catches fire after being left in the sun in West Valley.

Route 35 closed in Naples due to fatal electric vehicle crash, battery fire...

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Many more articles listed but you get the idea. People are waking up to the dangers of the Green Revolution.

hph6203 said:

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He's starting to understand. He's not fully there yet, but getting closer. At the very least they're heavily copying Tesla, which is a smart move.

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EV's have no carbon footprint???

Farley is full of crap.

That's a great article?

The guy cities a story about a Tesla charger starting a house fire then uses it as a basis for ranting on batteries, which didn't cause the fire.

Teslag said:

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That's a great article?

The guy cities a story about a Tesla charger starting a house fire then uses it as a basis for ranting on batteries, which didn't cause the fire.

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Chicken.
Egg.

Teslag said:

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That's a great article?

The guy cities a story about a Tesla charger starting a house fire then uses it as a basis for ranting on batteries, which didn't cause the fire.

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Yeah these are really starting to percolate. People are waking up to the dangers.

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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That's a great article?

The guy cities a story about a Tesla charger starting a house fire then uses it as a basis for ranting on batteries, which didn't cause the fire.

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Yeah these are really starting to percolate. People are waking up to the dangers.

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The dangers of a charger? I'm glad there were no electrical fires prior to EV's