I have no idea but I don't think driving any vehicle not specifically built for water into water deeper than 24 inches is a good idea. I think we all know what happens to an engine if you get water into the cylinder. Getting water into batteries would be just as bad of idea.

Agreed, our batteries are built more robust than Tesla's (off-highway stuff) and we have stickers all over to not powerwash or submerge. Sadly we have had customers try to do both, hence the warning stickers.

Officials Tesla guidance. No surprise.

Follow these steps once the vehicle is no longer submerged and is safe to access:
Treat your vehicle as if it has been in an accident and contact your insurance company.
Do not attempt to operate the vehicle until an authorized shop has inspected it. If you are a Tesla vehicle owner, you can schedule your inspection with Tesla Service.
Safely tow or move the vehicle at least 50 ft (15 m) from structures or other combustible materials such as other cars and personal property.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Model 3 absolutely plowing through a flooded street in San Diego pic.twitter.com/n1v4zpRATV

— Nic Cruz Patane (@niccruzpatane) January 24, 2024

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A few days later, when the connections corrode…

Skip to around 8 minutes or so. Tesla's are not commonly worked on privately so not too many videos of them but Rich here of course has a pretty famous example of disassembling the 'not wonder cars' and underneath all the nanny gear is just…all the electronic bits found in basically all the other car makes. Some surprisingly…vulnerable to water intrusion.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Model 3 absolutely plowing through a flooded street in San Diego pic.twitter.com/n1v4zpRATV

— Nic Cruz Patane (@niccruzpatane) January 24, 2024

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That driver is really lucky he didn't get any of that Tesla's magnets wet. It would have died immediately.

You sure that is not a Volkswagen Bug?

Another day, another recall. But it's just OTA!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/01/26/tesla-recalls-nearly-200000-vehicles-in-us-over-rearview-camera-bug.html

techno-ag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Model 3 absolutely plowing through a flooded street in San Diego pic.twitter.com/n1v4zpRATV

— Nic Cruz Patane (@niccruzpatane) January 24, 2024

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A few days later, when the connections corrode…

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Remember kids, don't take the battery out of the Tesla and charge it inside.

Tesla battery explodes in Cary home after being removed and charged inside
https://www.wral.com/amp/21256187/

techno-ag said:

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techno-ag said:

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PlaneCrashGuy said:

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Model 3 absolutely plowing through a flooded street in San Diego pic.twitter.com/n1v4zpRATV

— Nic Cruz Patane (@niccruzpatane) January 24, 2024

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A few days later, when the connections corrode…

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Remember kids, don't take the battery out of the Tesla and charge it inside.

Tesla battery explodes in Cary home after being removed and charged inside
https://www.wral.com/amp/21256187/

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That is a standard 12 volt battery like found in every other car. I was wondering how he would have gotten the drive train battery into his car.

Exactly. There's nothing Tesla specific about that battery

UK: EV's cost twice as much as ICE vehicles to insure.

Quote:

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Automotive insurers in Britain have refuted allegations of profiteering following a massive 50 percent increase in the cost of insuring electric vehicles in 2023. As a result, drivers in the country are now paying nearly double the insurance premiums compared to owners of internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles.


Insurers respond that there's little they can do, and that the premiums are determined by claim costs and frequency. They say that accidental damage claims on EVs are 35 percent more expensive than comparable repairs for combustion engine vehicles.

Insurance premiums for EVs surged to an average of 1,344 (approximately US$1,700 at current exchange rates) at the end of 2023, reports Bloomberg. Insurers point to several factors contributing to this increase, including the elevated cost of repairs, a shortage of mechanics trained in EV servicing, and extended garage time for these vehicles.

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Well but they are growing in popularity and certain brands are great, right?

Quote:

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Although the Tesla Model Y was the top-selling vehicle overall in Europe in 2023, the EV market share did not grow in the UK for the first time in recent years. It is also noteworthy that the American crossover was the only fully electric model in the top 30 of the continent's sales charts. That's particularly relevant here, as studies have found that Tesla EVs cost more to fix than most other electric models, which tend to be only marginally more expensive to fix than combustion vehicles.

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My premium on a 2021 Silverado Diesel $819
My premium on a 2022 Tesla Model Y Performance $959


"double"

Per your article,
"That's particularly relevant here, as studies have found that Tesla EVs cost more to fix than most other electric models, which tend to be only marginally more expensive to fix than combustion vehicles."
How much of the higher repair costs are due to all of the sensors that have nothing to do with the powertrain? Also, how much is due to Tesla having a limited number of repair shops approved which again has nothing to do with the powertrain.

I will say the idea the insurance costs twice as much when repair costs are marginally higher to 35% higher tells me they are doing an apples and oranges comparison if they say the cost to insure is double. The average EV on the road in materially newer than the average ICE on the road and would think that everyone would agree newer cars are more expensive to insure given the value of the car if totaled or stolen.

Insurance companies are just in essence big actuarial tables, with a smallish margin for mark up/profit. I dunno, I assume they are comparing similar age vehicles/similar purchase prices etc. to make the comparison. I know on this site we have been unable to ever reach any rough consensus for what a comparable vehicle is to certain brands, and wind up just degenerating in said discussions to anecdotes.

Time to repair is a big deal too, as they have to cover/price in rentals longer (sometimes up to 6 months I have read).

The repair time is definitely an issue and drawback to the EVs made by the upstart EV only companies. I also agree the 35% higher repair costs for Tesla's is probably in the ball park because even a small fender bender means a lot of sensors unrelated to the powertrain need replaced. The fact the article says other EVs have similar repair costs to ICE helps confirm it isn't a powertrain issue but rather the sensors and other items added for safety, monitoring and advanced driver assists.

My issue is comparing the average cost to insure is likely oversimplified. It would be like saying a high end 2024 Mercedes is four of five times as expensive to insure as a 8 year old Ford Fiesta. It is true but has nothing to do with the power train and aloose everything to do with the age and value of a car.

Evidence EVs are a fading fad is 'rolling in fast' as Tesla, GM and Ford slash prices

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-gm-and-ford-price-cuts-suggest-that-electric-cars-may-be-at-a-dead-end-1091aa16

Quote:

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EV doubters like Toyota - which instead bet on hybrids - now look prescient. Over the past year, Toyota's share price outperformed GM's by 40%. After taking flak from EV enthusiasts and Wall Street analysts, Toyota Chairman Akio Toyoda declared last October that people are "finally seeing reality." Automobile unions surely are relieved, considering that EVs require 90% fewer parts and 30% fewer man-hours to manufacture.

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Kansas Kid said:

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The repair time is definitely an issue and drawback to the EVs made by the upstart EV only companies. I also agree the 35% higher repair costs for Tesla's is probably in the ball park because even a small fender bender means a lot of sensors unrelated to the powertrain need replaced. The fact the article says other EVs have similar repair costs to ICE helps confirm it isn't a powertrain issue but rather the sensors and other items added for safety, monitoring and advanced driver assists.

My issue is comparing the average cost to insure is likely oversimplified. It would be like saying a high end 2024 Mercedes is four of five times as expensive to insure as a 8 year old Ford Fiesta. It is true but has nothing to do with the power train and aloose everything to do with the age and value of a car.

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My guess is that EVs are totaled more often. By totaled, I mean the insurance company considers them totaled, not that the vehicle can't be repaired to good working condition.

Ag with kids said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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The repair time is definitely an issue and drawback to the EVs made by the upstart EV only companies. I also agree the 35% higher repair costs for Tesla's is probably in the ball park because even a small fender bender means a lot of sensors unrelated to the powertrain need replaced. The fact the article says other EVs have similar repair costs to ICE helps confirm it isn't a powertrain issue but rather the sensors and other items added for safety, monitoring and advanced driver assists.

My issue is comparing the average cost to insure is likely oversimplified. It would be like saying a high end 2024 Mercedes is four of five times as expensive to insure as a 8 year old Ford Fiesta. It is true but has nothing to do with the power train and aloose everything to do with the age and value of a car.

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My guess is that EVs are totaled more often. By totaled, I mean the insurance company considers them totaled, not that the vehicle can't be repaired to good working condition.

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Possible but primarily because of the high end sensors for driver assists and additional features quickly up the bill. The article Nortex posted saying EVs other than Teslas have similar costs as ICE vehicles implies it isn't a powertrain issue.

Remember the video of the Rivian repair costs are high because of a damage to a quart panel requires replacing essentially one whole side of the truck instead of a small section. Why anyone would build the truck this way is beyond me but they must have wanted it to look a certain way and didn't worry about repair costs. EVs would likely be a little more expensive all else being equal because they need to be deenergized which costs $100-150 for a Tesla and likely similar for other EVs

I have tried to find something showing repair costs for traditional cars that have the advanced driver assists like Mercedes and Chevy but haven't seen any analysis of those vehicles.

Urban dweller incapable of thinking of use cases she personally does not have thinks that cars are unnecessary.

Also, weirdly teleological - EVs can’t just be a piece of technology, they have to be “about” something. https://t.co/xQTbzj7a8S

— Peter Hague PhD (@peterrhague) January 30, 2024

Posting mainly because I laughed.

nortex97 said:

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Urban dweller incapable of thinking of use cases she personally does not have thinks that cars are unnecessary.

Also, weirdly teleological - EVs can’t just be a piece of technology, they have to be “about” something. https://t.co/xQTbzj7a8S

— Peter Hague PhD (@peterrhague) January 30, 2024

Posting mainly because I laughed.

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Build cities for people, not cars? Why not both?

That was a good one.
Last time i heard the word "teleological" it was about
Greek philosophy and the ongoing nature of the universe,
which I guess is where television gets its name.

There is some great critical thinking from the future of this country. Why build ranches to raise cattle when you can just go to the store and get hamburger and steaks?

Don't be surprised.

There remains NY residents that will never drive a car.

bobbranco said:

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Don't be surprised.

There remains NY residents that will never drive a car.

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There are a number of the younger generation in every state that will never drive a car. I was shocked at how many classmates of my kids graduated college without a drivers license.

Same for my nieces in the DFW area. They made the comment that there's no point in getting a drivers license since using ubers to get around was cheaper than insurance and a car for their age. When they broke the numbers down it was actually hard to argue their point.

Teslag said:

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Same for my nieces in the DFW area. They made the comment that there's no point in getting a drivers license since using ubers to get around was cheaper than insurance and a car for their age. When they broke the numbers down it was actually hard to argue their point.

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How long do they spend waiting on the Uber? If you think it is hard doing a long distance trip in an EV, how are they going to do it relying on Ubers and no license?
This also shows how much less often the younger generation gets together in person than those of us of an older vintage.

Kansas Kid said:

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Teslag said:

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Same for my nieces in the DFW area. They made the comment that there's no point in getting a drivers license since using ubers to get around was cheaper than insurance and a car for their age. When they broke the numbers down it was actually hard to argue their point.

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How long do they spend waiting on the Uber? If you think it is hard doing a long distance trip in an EV, how are they going to do it relying on Ubers and no license?
This also shows how much less often the younger generation gets together in person than those of us of an older vintage.

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A friend with a truck. My experience with gen Z is they will use you to death if you let them.

It's over. Tesla share of booming California market shrinks.

https://www.autonews.com/retail/tesla-share-booming-california-market-slips-rivals-gain

Well they had a good run.

Form 71% to 60%?

Tesla ranked in the top 100 air polluting companies. Do not buy!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/01/tesla-sued-by-25-california-counties-over-hazardous-waste-handling.html

Quote:

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The company said in its 2022 impact report that Tesla customers avoided releasing around 13.4 million metric tons of carbon emissions that year, equivalent to 33 billion miles of driving by traditional, gasoline-burning cars. However, Tesla has been called out repeatedly for environmental hypocrisy and lax compliance.

In 2022 Tesla paid a settlement fee to the EPA after the agency found it had violated air toxic emission standards from 2016 through 2019 in Fremont, California. Last year, Tesla was sued in Germany over suspected water contamination and other environmental violations at its recently constructed factory in Brandenburg, Moz.de reported. Tesla also currently ranks 89th on the Political Economy Research Institute list of Toxic 100 air polluters, based on 2021 data.

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I didn't have "conservatives" simping for heavy handed California Soros AG's on my 2024 bingo card.

Actually the whole EV movement is highly hypocritical. This just highlights the air pollution part.

Except just about every EV owner on this thread has told you repeatedly that we did not buy a Tesla for environmental reasons.

techno-ag said:

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Tesla ranked in the top 100 air polluting companies. Do not buy!

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2024/02/01/tesla-sued-by-25-california-counties-over-hazardous-waste-handling.html

Quote:

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The company said in its 2022 impact report that Tesla customers avoided releasing around 13.4 million metric tons of carbon emissions that year, equivalent to 33 billion miles of driving by traditional, gasoline-burning cars. However, Tesla has been called out repeatedly for environmental hypocrisy and lax compliance.

In 2022 Tesla paid a settlement fee to the EPA after the agency found it had violated air toxic emission standards from 2016 through 2019 in Fremont, California. Last year, Tesla was sued in Germany over suspected water contamination and other environmental violations at its recently constructed factory in Brandenburg, Moz.de reported. Tesla also currently ranks 89th on the Political Economy Research Institute list of Toxic 100 air polluters, based on 2021 data.

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I see you are once again showing your Green Peace loving tree hugger side.