Utopia is right around the corner this year, as always.Build It said:
Cheap available lithium is a game changer. Elon was already planning a $25k car. He's going to gain a lot of market share over the coming years by building a car half the price of an ICE.
The masses will by the cheap car, electric or not.
techno-ag said:36,000 gallons of water! But look how much he was saving the environment by buying a Tesla. SMH.nortex97 said:
36,000 gallons used to extinguish a Tesla:Buying a BEV is also irresponsible as far as the risk/cost/dangers one adds to firefighters/responders, imho.Quote:
Electric vehicle fires pose their own unique set of challenges and the Pine Level Fire Department has revealed it took more than 36,000 gallons of water to bring a burning Tesla Model Y under control.
According to the department, firefighters responded to a report of a traffic accident with a vehicle fire at 11:14 pm on Christmas Day. When they arrived on the scene, the Model Y was "fully involved in fire."
Thankfully, the driver wasn't hurt in the accident and managed to escape. Their vehicle wasn't as lucky as the battery pack reportedly experienced a "thermal runaway." The highway was closed and firefighters spent over an hour battling the blaze.
The department noted "electric vehicle fires are unusual and present unique challenges and dangers to firefighters" as they can "reignite hours or days after they are first extinguished" and burn at temperatures exceeding 4,532 F (2,500 C). They added, "smoke from these burning electric cars produces Hydrogen Fluoride and Hydrogen Chloride gases both of which are toxic to breath (sic) and requires firefighters to wear breathing apparatus."
While the department didn't say much about the accident, WSFA reports the driver was a 33-year-old man from Georgia who was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol.
The station also talked to Pine Level Fire Chief Austin Worcester, who said traditional vehicle fires require around 300 to 1,000 gallons of water to extinguish. He added that special equipment exists for fighting electric vehicle fires, but it's far too expensive for the volunteer fire department.
If it makes you defensive like this, KK, then wasting that much water in comparison to ICE fires is an issue.Kansas Kid said:techno-ag said:36,000 gallons of water! But look how much he was saving the environment by buying a Tesla. SMH.nortex97 said:
36,000 gallons used to extinguish a Tesla:Buying a BEV is also irresponsible as far as the risk/cost/dangers one adds to firefighters/responders, imho.Quote:
Electric vehicle fires pose their own unique set of challenges and the Pine Level Fire Department has revealed it took more than 36,000 gallons of water to bring a burning Tesla Model Y under control.
According to the department, firefighters responded to a report of a traffic accident with a vehicle fire at 11:14 pm on Christmas Day. When they arrived on the scene, the Model Y was "fully involved in fire."
Thankfully, the driver wasn't hurt in the accident and managed to escape. Their vehicle wasn't as lucky as the battery pack reportedly experienced a "thermal runaway." The highway was closed and firefighters spent over an hour battling the blaze.
The department noted "electric vehicle fires are unusual and present unique challenges and dangers to firefighters" as they can "reignite hours or days after they are first extinguished" and burn at temperatures exceeding 4,532 F (2,500 C). They added, "smoke from these burning electric cars produces Hydrogen Fluoride and Hydrogen Chloride gases both of which are toxic to breath (sic) and requires firefighters to wear breathing apparatus."
While the department didn't say much about the accident, WSFA reports the driver was a 33-year-old man from Georgia who was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol.
The station also talked to Pine Level Fire Chief Austin Worcester, who said traditional vehicle fires require around 300 to 1,000 gallons of water to extinguish. He added that special equipment exists for fighting electric vehicle fires, but it's far too expensive for the volunteer fire department.
So about the same amount as it takes to grow 9 bushels of corn. So about 25 gallons of ethanol or 250 gallons of standard gasoline. Then there is the water used for fracing which is 1.5-15mm gallons. So how is the water used to fight an EV fire a massive environmental concern?
I don't see EVs as saving the planet btw but I also don't think they are worse than ICE. They have different issues and it just depends on what you care about the most but why let facts get in the way.
techno-ag said:If it makes you defensive like this, KK, then wasting that much water in comparison to ICE fires is an issue.Kansas Kid said:techno-ag said:36,000 gallons of water! But look how much he was saving the environment by buying a Tesla. SMH.nortex97 said:
36,000 gallons used to extinguish a Tesla:Buying a BEV is also irresponsible as far as the risk/cost/dangers one adds to firefighters/responders, imho.Quote:
Electric vehicle fires pose their own unique set of challenges and the Pine Level Fire Department has revealed it took more than 36,000 gallons of water to bring a burning Tesla Model Y under control.
According to the department, firefighters responded to a report of a traffic accident with a vehicle fire at 11:14 pm on Christmas Day. When they arrived on the scene, the Model Y was "fully involved in fire."
Thankfully, the driver wasn't hurt in the accident and managed to escape. Their vehicle wasn't as lucky as the battery pack reportedly experienced a "thermal runaway." The highway was closed and firefighters spent over an hour battling the blaze.
The department noted "electric vehicle fires are unusual and present unique challenges and dangers to firefighters" as they can "reignite hours or days after they are first extinguished" and burn at temperatures exceeding 4,532 F (2,500 C). They added, "smoke from these burning electric cars produces Hydrogen Fluoride and Hydrogen Chloride gases both of which are toxic to breath (sic) and requires firefighters to wear breathing apparatus."
While the department didn't say much about the accident, WSFA reports the driver was a 33-year-old man from Georgia who was arrested for driving under the influence of alcohol.
The station also talked to Pine Level Fire Chief Austin Worcester, who said traditional vehicle fires require around 300 to 1,000 gallons of water to extinguish. He added that special equipment exists for fighting electric vehicle fires, but it's far too expensive for the volunteer fire department.
So about the same amount as it takes to grow 9 bushels of corn. So about 25 gallons of ethanol or 250 gallons of standard gasoline. Then there is the water used for fracing which is 1.5-15mm gallons. So how is the water used to fight an EV fire a massive environmental concern?
I don't see EVs as saving the planet btw but I also don't think they are worse than ICE. They have different issues and it just depends on what you care about the most but why let facts get in the way.
Quote:
Earlier this year, Tesla announced that it would ditch rare earth metals (such as neodymium) in its motors by some unspecified date, citing supply chain issues and overall toxicity of sourcing them.
Quote:
Ferrite magnets, Tesla's most likely alternative to rare earth magnets, come with their own potential environmental issues, and another option, tetrataenite, is still years away from being viable, analysts said.
And yet… you're reading and responding to it. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."texsn95 said:
Just think of all of the productive things you people could have been doing with the time you've wasted on this one. Unreal.
Took me 30 seconds. Some of you are wasting hours upon hours. It's crazy.techno-ag said:And yet… you're reading and responding to it. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."texsn95 said:
Just think of all of the productive things you people could have been doing with the time you've wasted on this one. Unreal.
You have 4300 posts. I'm gonna wager you've spent a bit more than 30 seconds in the 13 years you've been a post here.texsn95 said:Took me 30 seconds. Some of you are wasting hours upon hours. It's crazy.techno-ag said:And yet… you're reading and responding to it. "Methinks the lady doth protest too much."texsn95 said:
Just think of all of the productive things you people could have been doing with the time you've wasted on this one. Unreal.
texsn95 said:
Damn, this thread is still going. Just think of all of the productive things you people could have been doing with the time you've wasted on this one. Unreal.
Foreverconservative said:
Someone cited Elon Musk earlier in the discussion. Musk is the benchmark in the EV world. He's so far ahead of the rest it's not even close. Earlier this year, Musk announced that Tesla would ditch rare earth metals such as neodymium in its motors by some unspecified date, citing supply chain issues, impossible sustainability long term, and overall toxicity of sourcing them. So called experts are exploring how Tesla will pull off this engineering feat, and one thing will be certain that if Tesla makes this move it'll require some performance trade offs. So all the warm and fuzzies people are getting over the crazy acceleration numbers and the power/torque ratio to compete against the ICE trucks is going to suffer. Ferrite magnets, isTesla's most likely alternative to rare earth magnets, and even they come with their own potential environmental issues, and another option, tetrataenite, however it's still years away from being viable. But then there's neodymium which is the most prevalent EV motors, also they use dysprosium and terbium All these rare earth metals are not in endless supply and they rape the land to get to them, not to mention the little children labor used to mine the stuff. And that's just one hurdle, then there's the absolute fact that there's not enough lithium and cobalt on this planet to sustain the battery demands these green new dreamers think they can do away with ICEs. It's never going to happen. Sure they are developing a recycling system but that only prolongs the end when the supply runs out, because the recycle factor is not 1:1, so there's still an atritian factor. Musk has warned repeatedly that the greenies goals of doing completely away with ICE's is nonsensical.
Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
If you think the US will do that, what makes you think they won't require the technology in all cars? That technology would work just as well in an ICE or hybrid as well.techno-ag said:Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
Power restrictions are different my friend. They just are. A while back on the Outdoors Board they followed a guy who drove around Africa. He'd pull into a village in the middle of nowhere and somebody always had diesel to sell him. Granted sometimes it was in 2 liter Coke bottles but they had it.Kansas Kid said:If you think the US will do that, what makes you think they won't require the technology in all cars? That technology would work just as well in an ICE or hybrid as well.techno-ag said:Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
techno-ag said:Power restrictions are different my friend. They just are. A while back on the Outdoors Board they followed a guy who drove around Africa. He'd pull into a village in the middle of nowhere and somebody always had diesel to sell him. Granted sometimes it was in 2 liter Coke bottles but they had it.Kansas Kid said:If you think the US will do that, what makes you think they won't require the technology in all cars? That technology would work just as well in an ICE or hybrid as well.techno-ag said:Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
You and the other optimists can't envision how going all electric is an autocratic dream come true.
techno-ag said:Power restrictions are different my friend. They just are. A while back on the Outdoors Board they followed a guy who drove around Africa. He'd pull into a village in the middle of nowhere and somebody always had diesel to sell him. Granted sometimes it was in 2 liter Coke bottles but they had it.Kansas Kid said:If you think the US will do that, what makes you think they won't require the technology in all cars? That technology would work just as well in an ICE or hybrid as well.techno-ag said:Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
You and the other optimists can't envision how going all electric is an autocratic dream come true.
But also it's not so much as he was wrong, in 1886 they weren't able to drill to depths below a few hundred feet. Seems like the first well drilled in the US was up in PA in the 1850's was something like 70ft +/-, then the whole deep well thing in 1901 at Spindletop came into play was only like 575 ft. So the Geo's prediction was based on current technology I'm guessing, just like when the horizontal ability opened up huge reserves not previously available, and now days they are doing it deeper and deeper as everything evoles technologically in that industry, they are saying we now have more the the Saudi's. Point being I don't think the supply of Lithium is based on depth because with the ability to core sample to miles below the surface already they would have a good handle on lithium futures. Seriously they coring down over seven miles currently. If there was deeper lithium reserves down there they'd know it.Kansas Kid said:
I agree there won't be enough lithium to switch to all electric as some want to do and there are too many applications where EVs don't work at least based on current and planned technology. I don't agree there isn't enough lithium that could be developed. Look at the new reserves found in the western US as an example. Historically, there wasn't a lot of prospecting going on for lithium because there was plenty of supply. The issue is developing all these reserves and refining the material will take decades to reach what an all EV fleet would require. Don't forget, the then world's leading geologist said we would run out of oil in 30 years. This was said in 1886. I think it is safe to now say he was wrong as have all the subsequent predictors over the last 137 years.
lithiumfutures.orgQuote:
Extraction of lithium from brines predominantly occurs from continental brine deposits, such as those found in Chile, Argentina and Bolivia. Although, extraction from oilfield and geothermal brines has been demonstrated and may become an important source of lithium in the future.
techno-ag said:Yup. And certain people can only drive certain days. And if you're on a list you can't drive past certain blocks, etc. Already seeing the Chi-coms do similar things. When your car is just a rolling iPhone, it becomes much easier to control.tk for tu juan said:
The fast 0-60 and high torque motors are just a foot in the door technique to get EVs sold. Eventually there will be max limits to Watt-hrs per mile and motor output in the name of energy conservation.
Again, it's pretty foolish to store any BEV indoors, imho.Quote:
Last month, reports emerged that a fire had broken out at Stellantis' North American headquarters, in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Now, more details about the incident have emerged, indicating that the fire broke out at the Chrysler Tech Center, and involved an electric vehicle prototype.
The details of the investigation remain shrouded in mystery. However, according to a report from the Auburn Hills Fire Department, the prototype was parked on a lift and had to be extracted from the facility using a forklift.
"Crews made their way to the vehicle and found it with active fireunderneath the vehicle and under the hood," the report, obtained by Crain's Detroit states. Although the cause of the fire is unclear, "workers present at the time of the incident advised that the vehicle had had some kind of coolant issue."
Devastating.nortex97 said:
LOL, Chrysler (Stellantis) HQ for North America fire blamed on…prototype BEV:Again, it's pretty foolish to store any BEV indoors, imho.Quote:
Last month, reports emerged that a fire had broken out at Stellantis' North American headquarters, in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Now, more details about the incident have emerged, indicating that the fire broke out at the Chrysler Tech Center, and involved an electric vehicle prototype.
The details of the investigation remain shrouded in mystery. However, according to a report from the Auburn Hills Fire Department, the prototype was parked on a lift and had to be extracted from the facility using a forklift.
"Crews made their way to the vehicle and found it with active fireunderneath the vehicle and under the hood," the report, obtained by Crain's Detroit states. Although the cause of the fire is unclear, "workers present at the time of the incident advised that the vehicle had had some kind of coolant issue."
Quote:
The accident happened when the Toyota driver turned right and struck a dirt patch in the embankment that sent it back onto the road and into the opposite lane - hitting the Cybertruck.
'It does not appear that the Tesla Cybertruck was being operated in autonomous mode,' the police report states, noting that only the Tesla driver sustained a suspected minor injury and declined medical transportation.
Teslag said:
Impossible. I've been told that every single EV in an accident explodes into an impossible to extinguish fire.
Foreverconservative said:
Do away with the taxpayer funded subsidies and this entire EV thread becomes a moot point.
Mainly to a small subset of the population, mostly far left partisans thinking they were changing the world/impacting global warming for some weird reason(s). Pontiac retains a similar share of cars on the road today, after all, and you've disclaimed any other BEV as being 'worth buying' in this very thread.Teslag said:Foreverconservative said:
Do away with the taxpayer funded subsidies and this entire EV thread becomes a moot point.
Tesla didn't need subsidies from 2019 to 2022 to sell cars.
LOL. Now do trucks and SUVs. You know, the things people like to drive.Teslag said:
Yes, the Pontiac is Americas most popular car now like Tesla Y
techno-ag said:LOL. Now do trucks and SUVs. You know, the things people like to drive.Teslag said:
Yes, the Pontiac is Americas most popular car now like Tesla Y
nortex97 said:
It's a bit fascinating that there are even today a similar number of Pontiacs on the road vs. Tesla's.
Indicative as well of the fact that aging vehicle safety/reliability figures are still to come for BEV's, given Tesla's respective market share in new vehicle sales.
