It's like every government handout program. They lead to a lot of waste and misallocation of capital and unfortunately both parties have their preferred follies with no interest in getting rid of them.

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

Trajan88 said:

---

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

---

We will add you to the list of tree huggers on Texags. I assume you will be getting rid of your phone, computers and everything else with a lithium battery to save the planet.

I agree with the article that there isn't enough lithium being produced today to go all electric and it likely won't change enough in the next 10-20 years.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Trajan88 said:

---

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

---

We will add you to the list of tree huggers on Texags. I assume you will be getting rid of your phone, computers and everything else with a lithium battery to save the planet.

I agree with the article that there isn't enough lithium being produced today to go all electric and it likely won't change enough in the next 10-20 years.

---

Except a phone can fit in the palm of my hand. An EV battery weighs around 2000 lbs.

Scale doesn't matter to the "he touched me first!" Crowd. Too nuanced.

nortex97 said:

---

Scale doesn't matter to the "he touched me first!" Crowd. Too nuanced.

---

"Destroying the earth and child slavery is okay if it's a little bit and is for things I like"

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Scale doesn't matter to the "he touched me first!" Crowd. Too nuanced.

---

"Destroying the earth and child slavery is okay if it's a little bit and is for things I like"

---

Grown man figures out how the world works, but posts it sarcastically leaving others confused what point he thinks he's making.

Hypocrites rarely have good self awareness

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Trajan88 said:

---

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

---

We will add you to the list of tree huggers on Texags. I assume you will be getting rid of your phone, computers and everything else with a lithium battery to save the planet.

I agree with the article that there isn't enough lithium being produced today to go all electric and it likely won't change enough in the next 10-20 years.

---

Except a phone can fit in the palm of my hand. An EV battery weighs around 2000 lbs.

---

I thought you tree huggers find any environmental damage a problem. Btw, if we are talking about environmental contamination, are you ok with things like BP Deep Horizon, Kuwait after Gulf 1, Valdez, Ixtoc 1, etc.

All energy and mineral production has environmental problems. Which one is worse is highly subjective.

I decided to look up the original article the Independent Sentinel quoted. .

https://www.osvehicle.com/the-negative-impact-of-lithium-mining-on-the-environment/#google_vignette

"In all aspects, lithium mining is not as bad as fraug (sp). Methane, a potent greenhouse gas, can be released during fraking, for example, but not during lithium mining"
The quote that Lithium mining is worse than fracing was totally made up by the author cited in the Independent Sentinel and the real irony is that author citing a source that says the exact opposite about lithium vs fracing.

PS. I don't agree with the conclusion in osvehicle because there are things about oil production that are worse than lithium production but there are things about lithium production that are worse than oil. Both have serious issues.

BEV's expected to cause holiday road chaos (Breitbart):

Quote:

---

Christmas road trips this weekend might be challenging for those who are driving an electric vehicle (EV) an extended distance for the first time.

While EVs are popular with certain groups even as they've been largely panned by the general population, inexperienced EV drivers could face some unwanted travel surprises this holiday season if they hit the road unprepared, Axios notes in a recent report.

Nearly 104 million people are expected to drive at least 50 miles from their homes between December 23 and January 1, which is a little more than last year's holiday season, according to the American Automobile Association (AAA).

Advanced planning is needed for those who are taking a road trip in an electric vehicle, especially during the winter months, as cold weather can significantly EV diminish battery range.

"My husband and I learned this firsthand last February as the temperatures dipped on a road trip back home to Michigan from Florida," Axios reporter Joann Muller noted in her report. "We were overconfident in our car's driving range, and had to practically limp to a charging station as the battery warnings flashed ever-more urgent messages."

Therefore, it is advised that EV owners and renters know how many miles it will take to get to their destinations, and where they will need to use a charger on the trip.

---

…

Quote:

---

EV drivers are also warned not to "assume you're all set if you arrive at the party with some juice left in the battery," as an electric vehicle can lose battery range just by sitting outside in cold weather.

As Breitbart News reported, driving EVs can be a nightmare in some cases.

In one example from earlier this year, a Business Insider reporter learned how "brutal" a road trip in an EV can be when he was forced to bundle up instead of using the heater in his car to try to maximize his range. After the trip he commented, "I'd be lying if I said I didn't curse these silly electric cars under my breath once or twice."

---

Be careful out there, Ags.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Trajan88 said:

---

"Minnesota cities went for EVs in public transit, but the buses couldn't handle the cold"

How can this be?!

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/energy/duluth-proterra-electric-buses-had-have-diesel-generators-installed-provide

---

These cities are idiots. They need to learn to run experiments but instead they say let's go all in on a new bus from a startup company with no tracks record and it will work out great. Most of these startups have no idea what they are doing and will fail.

How about instead, you either let others work out the kinks or you buy one bus and see how it goes. Will an EV bus be developed that works in cold climate, I don't know.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

---

Our city buses run on CNG

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

Calm down, it's too early to be that worked up.

On another un point of agreement as to the irrelevant topic you brought up here, I also do not support drunk driving, regardless of the vehicle type, or other reckless behaviors such as 'cheat' devices so drivers with 'full self driving' can get away with not paying attention.

nortex97 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

Calm down, it's too early to be that worked up.

On another un point of agreement as to the irrelevant topic you brought up here, I also do not support drunk driving, regardless of the vehicle type, or other reckless behaviors such as 'cheat' devices so drivers with 'full self driving' can get away with not paying attention.

---

I think you are the one that needs to calm down. You bring in an article that makes it sound like it will be a road catastrophe from a few EVs running out of juice but there is no analysis as to how it will be worse than ICE vehicles running out of gas. If you are going to say EVs are bad, at least make attempt to show how they are better than ICE.

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

Strawman.

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

nortex97 said:

---

BEV's expected to cause holiday road chaos (Breitbart):

Quote:

---

Christmas road trips this weekend might be challenging for those who are driving an electric vehicle (EV) an extended distance for the first time.

While EVs are popular with certain groups even as they've been largely panned by the general population, inexperienced EV drivers could face some unwanted travel surprises this holiday season if they hit the road unprepared, Axios notes in a recent report.

Nearly 104 million people are expected to drive at least 50 miles from their homes between December 23 and January 1, which is a little more than last year's holiday season, according to the American Automobile Association (AAA).

Advanced planning is needed for those who are taking a road trip in an electric vehicle, especially during the winter months, as cold weather can significantly EV diminish battery range.

"My husband and I learned this firsthand last February as the temperatures dipped on a road trip back home to Michigan from Florida," Axios reporter Joann Muller noted in her report. "We were overconfident in our car's driving range, and had to practically limp to a charging station as the battery warnings flashed ever-more urgent messages."

Therefore, it is advised that EV owners and renters know how many miles it will take to get to their destinations, and where they will need to use a charger on the trip.

---

…

Quote:

---

EV drivers are also warned not to "assume you're all set if you arrive at the party with some juice left in the battery," as an electric vehicle can lose battery range just by sitting outside in cold weather.

As Breitbart News reported, driving EVs can be a nightmare in some cases.

In one example from earlier this year, a Business Insider reporter learned how "brutal" a road trip in an EV can be when he was forced to bundle up instead of using the heater in his car to try to maximize his range. After the trip he commented, "I'd be lying if I said I didn't curse these silly electric cars under my breath once or twice."

---

Be careful out there, Ags.

---

Excellent points.

This reporter drove from Florida to Seattle in his Tesla. He was feeling pretty smug until he got out west and into the Rockies. Elevation and temperature drastically reduced his range. And there are a lot fewer charging stations out west. He started sweating it.

Of course he had to write a glowing piece despite all his troubles because it's Tesla. But reading between the lines, I think he decided this was a foolish endeavor.

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/19/what-i-learned-on-my-tesla-cannonball-from-tampa-to-seattle/amp/

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Your brother doesn't deserve a drivers license.

TXAGGIE10 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Your brother doesn't deserve a drivers license.

---

At least he doesn't text and drive like a vast majority of Americans do these days. Those people should absolutely not have drivers licenses. Running out of gas doesn't kill people. Distracted driving does.

Teslag said:

---

Hypocrites rarely have good self awareness

---

Case in point!

Kansas Kid said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

Calm down, it's too early to be that worked up.

On another un point of agreement as to the irrelevant topic you brought up here, I also do not support drunk driving, regardless of the vehicle type, or other reckless behaviors such as 'cheat' devices so drivers with 'full self driving' can get away with not paying attention.

---

I think you are the one that needs to calm down. You bring in an article that makes it sound like it will be a road catastrophe from a few EVs running out of juice but there is no analysis as to how it will be worse than ICE vehicles running out of gas. If you are going to say EVs are bad, at least make attempt to show how they are better than ICE.

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

You're brother sounds like a dumbass.

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Oh BS. First, you have no clue why a car is on the side of the road, and second WTF do you live that you see cars on the side of the road "many days". I don't see 1 a week.

agracer said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Oh BS. First, you have no clue why a car is on the side of the road, and second WTF do you live that you see cars on the side of the road "many days". I don't see 1 a week.

---

I was thinking the same thing. Zero experiential cred here since who knows why a vehicle stopped. Most of the ones I see are Fords or have a flat and apparently no spare.

techno-ag said:

---

agracer said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Oh BS. First, you have no clue why a car is on the side of the road, and second WTF do you live that you see cars on the side of the road "many days". I don't see 1 a week.

---

I was thinking the same thing. Zero experiential cred here since who knows why a vehicle stopped. Most of the ones I see are Fords or have a flat and apparently no spare.

---

Fix it again, Tony.

torrid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

agracer said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Oh BS. First, you have no clue why a car is on the side of the road, and second WTF do you live that you see cars on the side of the road "many days". I don't see 1 a week.

---

I was thinking the same thing. Zero experiential cred here since who knows why a vehicle stopped. Most of the ones I see are Fords or have a flat and apparently no spare.

---

Fix it again, Tony.

---

That's FIAT. Ford is Fix Or Repair Daily

Found On Road Dead

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Sounds like your brother shouldn't be driving a car

TXAG 05 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Sounds like your brother shouldn't be driving a car

---

On what basis? Would you rather someone drive that runs out of gas or someone that drives and texts (let alone DUI)?

I asked him why he thinks he doesn't run out with his EV and he said it is simple, he plugs it in every night so he is full the next day. He also has an ICE which he needs in certain cases but he drives the EV 70-80% of the time.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

I've seen several EV's acting as paperweights on the road over the years. They're rarely on the shoulder when they stop.

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Do you want to bet which causes more chaos and death on the roads this holiday season? EVs or drunk drivers and weather. I don't know how it could be proven but I guarantee EVs will cause minimal issues because for the rare idiot that runs out of electricity will be on the shoulder (you know like idiots that run out of gas) in almost every case while drunk drivers and weather cause serious accidents and unfortunately deaths.

---

Strawman.

---

His whole shtick is derailing by bringing up non EV's.

Kansas Kid said:

---

TXAG 05 said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

Quote:

---

PS. My brother has run out of gas 15-20 times in his life yet never has run out of electricity in his EV. He says the EV does a lot better job of letting him know well in advance when he is risking running out. Not a scientific analysis but just one example.

---

He doesn't know how to read a gas gauge?

---

He ignores it and the warning is a light at most with no audible alarm. I have never seen an EV on the roadside out of energy (I know it happens) but many days I drive by an ICE that is out of gas. The QT I go to has 2 cans people can use and they get used a lot so I don't think my brother is the only one.

---

Sounds like your brother shouldn't be driving a car

---

On what basis? Would you rather someone drive that runs out of gas or someone that drives and texts (let alone DUI)?

I asked him why he thinks he doesn't run out with his EV and he said it is simple, he plugs it in every night so he is full the next day. He also has an ICE which he needs in certain cases but he drives the EV 70-80% of the time.

---

Quit bringing up drink driving and texting. No one here supports that. Its such an obvious derail.

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Trajan88 said:

---

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

---

We will add you to the list of tree huggers on Texags. I assume you will be getting rid of your phone, computers and everything else with a lithium battery to save the planet.

I agree with the article that there isn't enough lithium being produced today to go all electric and it likely won't change enough in the next 10-20 years.

---

Except a phone can fit in the palm of my hand. An EV battery weighs around 2000 lbs.

---

What is the heaviest component of a lithuim battery?

JayM said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

Trajan88 said:

---

"Oh the Irony! Lithium Mining for EVs Is Far Worse Than Fracking"

Someone's reporting the quiet part out loud.

https://www.independentsentinel.com/oh-the-irony-lithium-mining-for-evs-is-far-worse-than-fracking/

---

We will add you to the list of tree huggers on Texags. I assume you will be getting rid of your phone, computers and everything else with a lithium battery to save the planet.

I agree with the article that there isn't enough lithium being produced today to go all electric and it likely won't change enough in the next 10-20 years.

---

Except a phone can fit in the palm of my hand. An EV battery weighs around 2000 lbs.

---

What is the heaviest component of a lithuim battery?

---