slaughtr said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Quote:

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I live in about as maga part of Texas as you can get, and even the most staunch right-wing buddies of mine are putting up solar panels on their houses because it saves them money. I doubt they would have done that back in the 70s and 80s when solar panels were still a purely "Liberal" thing, but now they have no problem putting money before tribal politics.

The good thing is every day, there are more and more EVs on the road and more stations on the highways for them to charge while traveling. It's no longer something that's going to happen in the future - it's happening now.

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Not sure where you live but solar panels are not good long term investments (it takes something like 15 years to 'break even' which is based on…lower interest rates), unless you are in an area subject to a lot of sun and a lot of electrical service disruption.

Second, no, it is not a good thing that there are more EV's on the road. It's a sign of CCP-leftist infiltration/power. EV's represent a decrease in energy independence and individual freedom, as well as environmental destruction (though conveniently this is offshored to the southern hemisphere/China often).

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Most of them are younger new home owners and they plan on passing their houses on to their kids when the time comes. It's more of a long term thing for them.

As for EVs, like when automobiles came on the scene, it'll be up to the consumers to decide their fate. They won't survive of its only liberals buying them, but like we've seen with TeslaAg, there's going to be conservatives who put politics aside for whatever reason to buy an EV.

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Why would I need to put politics aside to buy an EV? Conservatives don't like fast 0-60 times?

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From the way they talk, you'd think they would prefer a vehicle that runs off diesel, gets five mpg and does 0-60 in never just to "stick it to" whomever.

It reminds me of the Ludites in the 90s who were against all computers when they started becoming affordable and people were buying them like never before.

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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How much as a percentage of metals in BEV batteries, when, will be not-refined from China, for Tesla's sold here, since you are much better informed than I on this?

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Tesla's main graphite supply is sourced from an Austrailian company. They signed another deal this year for another company based in Africa. Tesla has moved and is continuously moving away from Chinese graphite.

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Your statistical and engineering knowledge are again on display here. Thx!

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When Nortex starts attacking posters rather than their arguments you know where the debate has gone. Unfortunately for him, he can't cry/laugh emoticon his way into being right.


About anything.

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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How much as a percentage of metals in BEV batteries, when, will be not-refined from China, for Tesla's sold here, since you are much better informed than I on this?

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Tesla's main graphite supply is sourced from an Austrailian company. They signed another deal this year for another company based in Africa. Tesla has moved and is continuously moving away from Chinese graphite.

---

Your statistical and engineering knowledge are again on display here. Thx!

---

When Nortex starts attacking posters rather than their arguments you know where the debate has gone. Unfortunately for him, he can't cry/laugh emoticon his way into being right.


About anything.

---

Who is attacking you? I am just, as I very rarely do, asking you to document an assertion you make when denigrating links/facts I post. Don't be sensitive, just provide the data and I will apologize if it is accurate and on point. Things like "well Tesla is moving away from…" are not factual/mathematical analyses.

There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Yikes, someone get a body bag.

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

This is the message board equivalent of someone sticking their fingers in their ear and yelling NA NA NA NA NA at the top of their lungs.

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

Quote:

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BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries.

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And yet, Teslas are the most American made vehicles on the road today.

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

Quote:

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BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

---

We JuSt HaTe ThE SuBsIDiEs

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

---

We JuSt HaTe ThE SuBsIDiEs

---

No one said this, to my knowledge. I have asked repeatedly that you not mischaracterize my statements.

If you have a question please feel free to ask me, and I will either ignore it or respond. Thank you.

nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

---

I need you to tell me how many ounces of Maple Syrup you and your family ate this year. When you don't know or refuse to answer, I'm just going to assume you are deflecting because you are a Justin Trudeau fan and a threat to democracy.

Am I doing it right?

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

---

Quote:

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BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

---

We JuSt HaTe ThE SuBsIDiEs

---

No one said this, to my knowledge. I have asked repeatedly that you not mischaracterize my statements.

If you have a question please feel free to ask me, and I will either ignore it or respond. Thank you.

---

This thread is full of posters saying they just hate the subsidies and to let the market decide. You don't even want that.

How EV's harm the environment they are supposed to save.

Quote:

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Environmental impact of Lithium mining in India

In 2021, the Ministry of Heavy Industries launched the Production Linked Incentive (PLI) Scheme, with an allocated budget of INR 259,380 million ($3.1 billion) for the Automobile and Auto component industry, to encourage and enhance the domestic manufacturing of Advanced Automotive Technology products including EVs and their components.

However, 70% of India's lithium-ion cell requirements for EVs are imported from China and Hong Kong, a roadblock in delivering domestically- manufactured, cost-efficient EVs.

In February 2023, lithium deposits were discovered in Jammu & Kashmir. Initial estimates by the Geological Survey of India (GSI) suggest a reserve of 5.9 billion tonnes of lithium, positioning India as a potential lithium producer. It may reduce its dependence on other countries for EV batteries.

World's largest automaker calls on India to change hybrid-car policy
[url=https://www.rt.com/india/585573-toyota-india-hybrid-cars-taxes/][/url]
The central government plans to auction the newly discovered mining blocks by December. However, the mining process will be complex and resource-intensive as the J&K blocks are in the form of hard rocks, unlike the brine found in South America, which will need more water and electricity. Additionally, mining in the region's fragile ecosystem will have a major environmental impact on its biodiversity and natural resources.

D'Souza says that in India, though there are laws against environmental pollution from mining activities, they face challenges in implementation, and there is a growing concern about the potential weakening of these laws, as observed in the case of the Environment Protection Act this year.

"The development and production from lithium mines will take at least ten years, so the government has time to reinforce environmental protection laws associated with mining activities to address the environmental challenges posed by lithium extraction in J&K," she says.

Shrivastav opines that while the mining of lithium will have an impact on the ecosystem, it will be far less than that of coal mines. The recycling of batteries, now a global trend, might provide respite.

"The lifespan of an EV battery, about 8-9 years, extends to 20 years through reuse. After reaching a charging capacity of less than 40%, these batteries, deemed unfit for EVs, remain suitable for powering communication towers and instrumentation circuits," he says.

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

---

I need you to tell me how many ounces of Maple Syrup you and your family ate this year. When you don't know or refuse to answer, I'm just going to assume you are deflecting because you are a Justin Trudeau fan and a threat to democracy.

Am I doing it right?

---

No, to do it 'right' in response you'd provide a datapoint and explanation as to when what manufacturer will deliver a battery with a set content of materials not from China. Maple syrup is not really relevant.

nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

---

I need you to tell me how many ounces of Maple Syrup you and your family ate this year. When you don't know or refuse to answer, I'm just going to assume you are deflecting because you are a Justin Trudeau fan and a threat to democracy.

Am I doing it right?

---

No, to do it 'right' in response you'd provide a datapoint and explanation as to when what manufacturer will deliver a battery with a set content of materials not from China. Maple syrup is not really relevant.

---

I demand an answer to my syrup question. What are you hiding? Why do you keep deflecting?

No Spin Ag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

I live in about as maga part of Texas as you can get, and even the most staunch right-wing buddies of mine are putting up solar panels on their houses because it saves them money. I doubt they would have done that back in the 70s and 80s when solar panels were still a purely "Liberal" thing, but now they have no problem putting money before tribal politics.

The good thing is every day, there are more and more EVs on the road and more stations on the highways for them to charge while traveling. It's no longer something that's going to happen in the future - it's happening now.

---

Not sure where you live but solar panels are not good long term investments (it takes something like 15 years to 'break even' which is based on…lower interest rates), unless you are in an area subject to a lot of sun and a lot of electrical service disruption.

Second, no, it is not a good thing that there are more EV's on the road. It's a sign of CCP-leftist infiltration/power. EV's represent a decrease in energy independence and individual freedom, as well as environmental destruction (though conveniently this is offshored to the southern hemisphere/China often).

---

Most of them are younger new home owners and they plan on passing their houses on to their kids when the time comes. It's more of a long term thing for them.

As for EVs, like when automobiles came on the scene, it'll be up to the consumers to decide their fate. They won't survive of its only liberals buying them, but like we've seen with TeslaAg, there's going to be conservatives who put politics aside for whatever reason to buy an EV.

---

This would be true in a free market. We DO NOT have a free market. EVs are being shoved down our throats by increasing CAFE standards. CAFE standards that will only leave room for Hybrid electric ICE vehicles like the new ramcharger. The latest Prius barely sniffs that standard and is built primarily for maximum fuel economy. Anything bigger or sportier is going to have to be primarily electric (battery) driven with an onboard ICE generator.

EVs are fine for daily commuters but have and will have unacceptable range for pickup trucks and a severe lack of driver engagement and sensory experience in performance oriented cars (even if they accelerate quickly). There's nothing wrong with having EV choices in all of those categories, but they should remain a choice and not the only option due to government interference.

Can you give us a warning before posting Russia Today links for those of us on work computers?

Good points.

slaughtr said:

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nortex97 said:

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slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

---

There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

---

I need you to tell me how many ounces of Maple Syrup you and your family ate this year. When you don't know or refuse to answer, I'm just going to assume you are deflecting because you are a Justin Trudeau fan and a threat to democracy.

Am I doing it right?

---

No, to do it 'right' in response you'd provide a datapoint and explanation as to when what manufacturer will deliver a battery with a set content of materials not from China. Maple syrup is not really relevant.

---

I demand an answer to my syrup question. What are you hiding? Why do you keep deflecting?

---

I don't eat/ingest maple syrup, ever.

Do you accept then that there are no BEV vehicles planned not substantially dependent on materials refined in China? Or do you still have no data points?

I am trying in good faith again, 6th time today, to see if BEV fans can show how BEV batteries are planned that are not dependent on the CCP for refined materials. It's very relevant, imho, and a simple question to the topic at hand the past 18 or so months. Apparently…no one knows of any.

nortex97 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

So basically anyone that buys or owns a consumer electronic, appliance, power tool, or basically anything at all is a leftist?

---

No, although I won't deign to 'explain' it to you again, the scale matters.

Every thinking/attentive American with an EV though, is a CCP supporter.

---

Everybody has to have a boogieman nowadays.

aggieforester05 said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Quote:

---

I live in about as maga part of Texas as you can get, and even the most staunch right-wing buddies of mine are putting up solar panels on their houses because it saves them money. I doubt they would have done that back in the 70s and 80s when solar panels were still a purely "Liberal" thing, but now they have no problem putting money before tribal politics.

The good thing is every day, there are more and more EVs on the road and more stations on the highways for them to charge while traveling. It's no longer something that's going to happen in the future - it's happening now.

---

Not sure where you live but solar panels are not good long term investments (it takes something like 15 years to 'break even' which is based on…lower interest rates), unless you are in an area subject to a lot of sun and a lot of electrical service disruption.

Second, no, it is not a good thing that there are more EV's on the road. It's a sign of CCP-leftist infiltration/power. EV's represent a decrease in energy independence and individual freedom, as well as environmental destruction (though conveniently this is offshored to the southern hemisphere/China often).

---

Most of them are younger new home owners and they plan on passing their houses on to their kids when the time comes. It's more of a long term thing for them.

As for EVs, like when automobiles came on the scene, it'll be up to the consumers to decide their fate. They won't survive of its only liberals buying them, but like we've seen with TeslaAg, there's going to be conservatives who put politics aside for whatever reason to buy an EV.

---

This would be true in a free market. We DO NOT have a free market. EVs are being shoved down our throats by increasing CAFE standards. CAFE standards that will only leave room for Hybrid electric ICE vehicles like the new ramcharger. The latest Prius barely sniffs that standard and is built primarily for maximum fuel economy. Anything bigger or sportier is going to have to be primarily electric (battery) driven with an onboard ICE generator.

EVs are fine for daily commuters but have and will have unacceptable range for pickup trucks and a severe lack of driver engagement and sensory experience in performance oriented cars (even if they accelerate quickly). There's nothing wrong with having EV choices in all of those categories, but they should remain a choice and not the only option due to government interference.

---

The government interferes with who can do what with their bodies, so it interfering in this is nothing out of the ordinary for them. No one should be surprised the government has their hands in this. Hint: they have a hand in everything, it's just that depending on what it is, half the population will either love it or hate it.

That being said, I agree that EVs should be a choice and only a choice. If auto companies want to produce both types they should and if people prefer one or the other, they should be able to do that as well.

nortex97 said:

---

How EV's harm the environment they are supposed to save.

Quote:

---

Environmental impact of Lithium mining in India

In 2021, the Ministry of Heavy Industries launched the Production Linked Incentive (PLI) Scheme, with an allocated budget of INR 259,380 million ($3.1 billion) for the Automobile and Auto component industry, to encourage and enhance the domestic manufacturing of Advanced Automotive Technology products including EVs and their components.

However, 70% of India's lithium-ion cell requirements for EVs are imported from China and Hong Kong, a roadblock in delivering domestically- manufactured, cost-efficient EVs.

In February 2023, lithium deposits were discovered in Jammu & Kashmir. Initial estimates by the Geological Survey of India (GSI) suggest a reserve of 5.9 billion tonnes of lithium, positioning India as a potential lithium producer. It may reduce its dependence on other countries for EV batteries.

World's largest automaker calls on India to change hybrid-car policy
[url=https://www.rt.com/india/585573-toyota-india-hybrid-cars-taxes/][/url]
The central government plans to auction the newly discovered mining blocks by December. However, the mining process will be complex and resource-intensive as the J&K blocks are in the form of hard rocks, unlike the brine found in South America, which will need more water and electricity. Additionally, mining in the region's fragile ecosystem will have a major environmental impact on its biodiversity and natural resources.

D'Souza says that in India, though there are laws against environmental pollution from mining activities, they face challenges in implementation, and there is a growing concern about the potential weakening of these laws, as observed in the case of the Environment Protection Act this year.

"The development and production from lithium mines will take at least ten years, so the government has time to reinforce environmental protection laws associated with mining activities to address the environmental challenges posed by lithium extraction in J&K," she says.

Shrivastav opines that while the mining of lithium will have an impact on the ecosystem, it will be far less than that of coal mines. The recycling of batteries, now a global trend, might provide respite.

"The lifespan of an EV battery, about 8-9 years, extends to 20 years through reuse. After reaching a charging capacity of less than 40%, these batteries, deemed unfit for EVs, remain suitable for powering communication towers and instrumentation circuits," he says.

---

---

So do you think oil and gas production don't do harm to the environment?

If so, how do you rationalize Valdez, BP Deepwater Horizon, Kuwait oil spills (not to mention we went into Kuwait because they produce oil) and things like earthquakes in OK from deep well injections of fracing waste? I am not anti oil, I am just pointing out you only look at one side of the issue and totally ignore the other side.

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

Teslag said:

---

There were posted yesterday in reply to one of your morning rants. You ignored them.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/australias-magnis-deal-with-tesla-supply-graphite-electric-vehicle-batteries-2023-02-20/

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/tesla-supplier-syrah-expects-more-graphite-buys-ahead-china-export-ban-2023-10-26/

---

No, that just doesn't answer anything I asked. It's reuters covering a press release about more/growing.

Let me know if you figure out some statistic on metal content in Tesla batteries sold in America not coming from Chinese refineries. Thx again!

---

You let us know what percentage of components in your car are from China. Or your clothes. Or your sneakers. Or your computer that you spend all day on asking other people about the Chinese components in their life. Then I will send you mine. Deal?

---

Thank you for confirming you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

Deflect, obfuscate, denigrate all you want. It's really a simple question but I respect that y'all can't do it as the manufacturers don't put that out in nice formats for the press to report because it is…not helpful to them.

BEV's (of all brands) depend on CCP China for their key component; the batteries. This is a truth that cannot be obviated or mocked away, no matter how much some might want to discuss my blue jeans or anything else at all.

---

Why would I care when you don't care about the Chinese components in yours? It's not deflection or obfuscation. It's apathy.

---

Quote:

---

you, as well, have no idea as to tangible goals for the BEV producers to deliver toward any established goals regarding a battery component % threshold not dependent on Chinese sources.

---

It's that simple. It's not about my car, or blue jeans, or anything else. BEV's are a threat, politically. That's why the communists push them, here and in Europe/China.

I respect that if you knew an answer to the above, again, you'd quote it, but you have no clue that wouldn't prove my point. Thank you for answering.

---

Your tinfoil hat is a bit tight today, I think. I don't have an answer. I never looked and don't care. Why would I? Seems like a weird hill to die on for you today though. Ask a question nobody cares about and claim they are obfuscating Communists when they don't answer.

---

My tin foil hat? LOL. The concept of BEV's as a tool for control/economic device for the CCP etc. is not my own.

I asked a simple question, really, which I will I guess reiterate for a 5th or so time today, that is relevant as I have been told on blast so many times that it is untrue to even ask about; when will a consumer vehicle that is a BEV be sold in America, by what brand, that has a battery (the key component/differentiator, after all) without most materials (or even define a specific goal as a percent by mass of the battery) refined in the CCP? What goals to the 'most American" companies have to make that happen, and when?

That's tin foil hat though, to bring up, in the thread about…why some of us don't want to ever buy a BEV on the politics forum? And none of the champions have any answers even about certain chosen/fantasized brand(s)? It's all very affirming to my stance, thank you again. If anyone else has an answer I am curious what it is.

---

I need you to tell me how many ounces of Maple Syrup you and your family ate this year. When you don't know or refuse to answer, I'm just going to assume you are deflecting because you are a Justin Trudeau fan and a threat to democracy.

Am I doing it right?

---

No, to do it 'right' in response you'd provide a datapoint and explanation as to when what manufacturer will deliver a battery with a set content of materials not from China. Maple syrup is not really relevant.

---

I demand an answer to my syrup question. What are you hiding? Why do you keep deflecting?

---

I don't eat/ingest maple syrup, ever.

Do you accept then that there are no BEV vehicles planned not substantially dependent on materials refined in China? Or do you still have no data points?

I am trying in good faith again, 6th time today, to see if BEV fans can show how BEV batteries are planned that are not dependent on the CCP for refined materials. It's very relevant, imho, and a simple question to the topic at hand the past 18 or so months. Apparently…no one knows of any.

---

And for the 6th time, I don't care. Everything you own, wear, drive is or has components made in China. All of our debt is held by China. Hell, even our viruses come from China. Why would I care about one teeny tiny slice of the Chinese market. It seems so weird you are so obsessed with this.

Kansas Kid said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

How EV's harm the environment they are supposed to save.

Quote:

---

Environmental impact of Lithium mining in India

In 2021, the Ministry of Heavy Industries launched the Production Linked Incentive (PLI) Scheme, with an allocated budget of INR 259,380 million ($3.1 billion) for the Automobile and Auto component industry, to encourage and enhance the domestic manufacturing of Advanced Automotive Technology products including EVs and their components.

However, 70% of India's lithium-ion cell requirements for EVs are imported from China and Hong Kong, a roadblock in delivering domestically- manufactured, cost-efficient EVs.

In February 2023, lithium deposits were discovered in Jammu & Kashmir. Initial estimates by the Geological Survey of India (GSI) suggest a reserve of 5.9 billion tonnes of lithium, positioning India as a potential lithium producer. It may reduce its dependence on other countries for EV batteries.

World's largest automaker calls on India to change hybrid-car policy
[url=https://www.rt.com/india/585573-toyota-india-hybrid-cars-taxes/][/url]
The central government plans to auction the newly discovered mining blocks by December. However, the mining process will be complex and resource-intensive as the J&K blocks are in the form of hard rocks, unlike the brine found in South America, which will need more water and electricity. Additionally, mining in the region's fragile ecosystem will have a major environmental impact on its biodiversity and natural resources.

D'Souza says that in India, though there are laws against environmental pollution from mining activities, they face challenges in implementation, and there is a growing concern about the potential weakening of these laws, as observed in the case of the Environment Protection Act this year.

"The development and production from lithium mines will take at least ten years, so the government has time to reinforce environmental protection laws associated with mining activities to address the environmental challenges posed by lithium extraction in J&K," she says.

Shrivastav opines that while the mining of lithium will have an impact on the ecosystem, it will be far less than that of coal mines. The recycling of batteries, now a global trend, might provide respite.

"The lifespan of an EV battery, about 8-9 years, extends to 20 years through reuse. After reaching a charging capacity of less than 40%, these batteries, deemed unfit for EVs, remain suitable for powering communication towers and instrumentation circuits," he says.

---

---

So do you think oil and gas production don't do harm to the environment?

If so, how do you rationalize Valdez, BP Deepwater Horizon, Kuwait oil spills (not to mention we went into Kuwait because they produce oil) and things like earthquakes in OK from deep well injections of fracing waste? I am not anti oil, I am just pointing out you only look at one side of the issue and totally ignore the other side.

---

Today I just found it interesting that you, and other proponents are unaware of any intentions by any manufacturer to produce a battery not sourced from the CCP, by any statistical measure. Protestations at the request for information, or question itself don't really surprise me, just that I expected some sort of effort.

I guess not. Just, "muh, what about Canadian maple syrup, the Valdez, fracking, your blue jeans etc." I am happy to discuss further another day (again) the environmental comparative trade offs, and mutual dependency on oil and gas between various powertrain options for consumer vehicles, but this was just a pretty rudimentary ask, after being lectured repeatedly about how American-made Tesla's are. Thank you again.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/11/car-dealers-say-they-cant-sell-evs-tell-biden-to-slow-their-rollout/

Car dealers beg Biden to slow mandatory adoption of EVs since no one is buying them.

Quote:

---

Almost 4,000 dealers from around the United States have sent an open letter to President Joe Biden calling for the government to slow down its plan to increase EV adoption between now and 2032.

Mindful of the fact that transportation accounts for the largest segment of US carbon emissions and that our car-centric society encourages driving, the US Department of Energy published a proposed rule in April that would alter the way the government calculates each automaker's corporate average fuel efficiency. If adopted, the new rule would require OEMs to sell many more EVs to avoid large fines. This is in addition to an earlier goal from the White House that calls for one in two new cars sold in 2030 to be EVs.

---

Note that Ars is pretty lib and chides the dealers for their letter to the WH.

Let's say in 2 years when battery prices are at a level that facilitates EV prices to be equivalent with ICE prices and I decide to buy an EV so I can save $1000/yr on fuel costs, exactly how much money am I shipping to China for the battery? Put a number on it.

What if the battery is made in the U.S. by a non-Chinese manufacturer and the lithium is sourced from a domestic refiner and it's strictly the refinement of the other materials being done in China? How much do they make of the projected $113/kWh finished pack price? Assume a 75 kWh pack. That's $8500. Half of that? A quarter? 10%? 5%? Surely you have a specific number of the totality of commie that I am for making that decision, and how commie is an ICE engine by comparison?


Another question. In the event that the rest of the global auto market does as is expected and shifts to a higher and higher proportion of electric vehicles, how viable is the current ICE business given that they'll be producing vehicles at an ever decreasing scale resulting in upward pressure on prices? How much of a premium must I pay on an ICE vehicle both in purchase price and maintenance and fuel costs to not be considered a no good commie? If the domestic auto manufacturers collapse under the weight of maintaining ICE production and we have to buy foreign made vehicles from Korea, Japan or China can I still claim to be a non-commie?


Just curious what your thoughts are. Surely you at minimum have an answer to how commie, in dollars, the purchase of the battery is.

hph6203 said:

---

Let's say in 2 years when battery prices are at a level that facilitates EV prices to be equivalent with ICE prices and I decide to buy an EV so I can save $1000/yr on fuel costs, exactly how much money am I shipping to China for the battery? Put a number on it.

What if the battery is made in the U.S. by a non-Chinese manufacturer and the lithium is sourced from a domestic refiner and it's strictly the refinement of the other materials being done in China? How much do they make of the projected $113/kWh finished pack price? Assume a 75 kWh pack. That's $8500. Half of that? A quarter? 10%? 5%? Surely you have a specific number of the totality of commie that I am for making that decision, and how commie is an ICE engine by comparison?


Another question. In the event that the rest of the global auto market does as is expected and shifts to a higher and higher proportion of electric vehicles, how viable is the current ICE business given that they'll be producing vehicles at an ever decreasing scale resulting in upward pressure on prices? How much of a premium must I pay on an ICE vehicle both in purchase price and maintenance and fuel costs to not be considered a no good commie? If the domestic auto manufacturers collapse under the weight of maintaining IcE production and we have to buy foreign made vehicles from Korea, Japan or China can I still claim to be a non-commie?


Just curious what your thoughts are. Surely you at minimum have an answer to how commie, in dollars, the purchase of the battery is.

---

I'm sorry, that is a lot of words to try to deflect from the question as to when a battery is planned to be built and sold in the US that is not sourced from Chinese refined materials.

Why do you not know that, or is it not available information, anyway? Why isn't that energy-intensive water-dependent and highly waste-producing work being planned to be done here? When and where do you want it to be planned and permitted, in what state(s)?

Thanks though for your interest. Deflecting isn't something that will win over 'my side.'

nortex97 said:

---

hph6203 said:

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Let's say in 2 years when battery prices are at a level that facilitates EV prices to be equivalent with ICE prices and I decide to buy an EV so I can save $1000/yr on fuel costs, exactly how much money am I shipping to China for the battery? Put a number on it.

What if the battery is made in the U.S. by a non-Chinese manufacturer and the lithium is sourced from a domestic refiner and it's strictly the refinement of the other materials being done in China? How much do they make of the projected $113/kWh finished pack price? Assume a 75 kWh pack. That's $8500. Half of that? A quarter? 10%? 5%? Surely you have a specific number of the totality of commie that I am for making that decision, and how commie is an ICE engine by comparison?


Another question. In the event that the rest of the global auto market does as is expected and shifts to a higher and higher proportion of electric vehicles, how viable is the current ICE business given that they'll be producing vehicles at an ever decreasing scale resulting in upward pressure on prices? How much of a premium must I pay on an ICE vehicle both in purchase price and maintenance and fuel costs to not be considered a no good commie? If the domestic auto manufacturers collapse under the weight of maintaining IcE production and we have to buy foreign made vehicles from Korea, Japan or China can I still claim to be a non-commie?


Just curious what your thoughts are. Surely you at minimum have an answer to how commie, in dollars, the purchase of the battery is.

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I'm sorry, that is a lot of words to try to deflect from the question as to when a battery is planned to be built and sold in the US that is not sourced from Chinese refined materials.

Why do you not know that, or is it not available information, anyway? Why isn't that energy-intensive water-dependent and highly waste-producing work being planned to be done here? When and where do you want it to be planned and permitted, in what state(s)?

Thanks though for your interest. Deflecting isn't something that will win over 'my side.'

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Can you tell us when any car will be sold in the US that has nothing coming from China in the car? Of course you won't answer the question because you see only EVs as having issues.

Remember we showed an average car used way more water to make its fuel than an EV uses to make the vehicle and power it. You say you are worried about the environment being destroyed by EVs but show no concern about environmental issues from ICE vehicles and their fuel.

As for your issue, Tesla has a battery without cobalt under development. They will be refining their lithium in Texas and in a few years will have sourced graphite in the US. They have committed to the next generation power trains not having REE. That leaves nickel which has a lot of none China sources and manganese where China is 20% of world production. So it appears that at least Tesla will have minimal minerals from China in the next 3-5 years.

Not a deflection. You claim this is a significant shift in world power, I'm just wondering how significant it is. You like to ask questions, but don't like answering them?

Should be easy to answer. Right at the tip of your fingers since you've been claiming this same thing since the start of this thread a year and a half ago. Since before that. So what's the number?