Logos Stick said:

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Antoninus said:

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I have never understood the rabid hatred that some seem to have for EVs.

No, they are NOT a good option for someone who often drives long distances. They ARE a good option for someone who drives around town, seldom goes very far and can charge every night in his garage.

Why the hostility?

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Liberty.

Nobody gives a damn if a government free loader drives an EV. We point out all the obvious issues with them because the Marxists are forcing them on us.

Drive an EV. Don't drive an EV. I don't care. But stop making me pay for it. Stop forcing the manufacturers to transition.

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That's the key for me. I'm actually for short-term government subsidies in emerging markets. Isn't that the original purpose? But they should be phased out once the market is established to compete on their own merits. I say the same thing about solar panels which have been around for over 50 years. Why should my tax dollars help pay for someone's EV at this point?

rynning said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Antoninus said:

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I have never understood the rabid hatred that some seem to have for EVs.

No, they are NOT a good option for someone who often drives long distances. They ARE a good option for someone who drives around town, seldom goes very far and can charge every night in his garage.

Why the hostility?

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Liberty.

Nobody gives a damn if a government free loader drives an EV. We point out all the obvious issues with them because the Marxists are forcing them on us.

Drive an EV. Don't drive an EV. I don't care. But stop making me pay for it. Stop forcing the manufacturers to transition.

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That's the key for me. I'm actually for short-term government subsidies in emerging markets. Isn't that the original purpose? But they should be phased out once the market is established to compete on their own merits. I say the same thing about solar panels which have been around for over 50 years. Why should my tax dollars help pay for someone's EV at this point?

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I hate subsidies even for emerging markets. They screw it up more than they help the market and like you point out, they are hard to phase out because the industry lobbies hard to keep them. We became a global economic power in numerous industries because we did survival of the fittest so only the best companies and ideas emerge vs who was the most politically connected.

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But they should be phased out once the market is established to compete on their own merits.

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This had been done with the previous EV tax credit. I believe Tesla's tax credit began phaseout in 2017 and was gone in 2019. After that they became very profitable and had two extremely popular models (one of which is now the most poplar car in the US, EV or ICE). Done right, there is no need for government interference to sell EV's.

I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

nortex97 said:

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Two more Nikola trucks catch fire in a week.

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The third and fourth fires to affect its vehicles this summer, Nikola's image has taken a beating this summer. Following the first reported fire in June, the company blamed foul play, but an investigation did not bear that explanation out.

The company then disclosed another fire, and in August announced a coolant leak was likely behind the first fire. It admitted that it would have to pause sales and initiated a recall of the Tre transport truck as a result of the defect.

Following the most recent reported fires, Nikola's stock fell by about 15 percent to 88 cents per share last week, reports Reuters. Since announcing the recall in August, the company's shares are down a total of 55 percent.

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That one's just not gonna make it.

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Their stock is below $1 again this morning.

Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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My Lightning a 12 volt battery through the hatch at the back of the frunk. I think I can jump another battery.

Let them fail. They have been a fraud from the early days.

Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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What about using a long extension cord to have one EV power another EV? Seems to me they could drive down the interstate and just keep within a couple of car lengths of each other.

JayM said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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My Lightning a 12 volt battery through the hatch at the back of the frunk. I think I can jump another battery.

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We pack these regardless. Trick is reminding yourself to charge them, but they work.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B55RFM1Z?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I replace my 12v battery in my Vette every 3 years in the fall because the added cost isn't worth the hassle of hitting the button and not getting the car to turn over.

torrid said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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What about using a long extension cord to have one EV power another EV? Seems to me they could drive down the interstate and just keep within a couple of car lengths of each other.

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These are high voltage DC motors. You'd need a very thick and heavy extension cord.

Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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What about using a long extension cord to have one EV power another EV? Seems to me they could drive down the interstate and just keep within a couple of car lengths of each other.

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These are high voltage DC motors. You'd need a very thick and heavy extension cord.

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Natch. When one nears depletion, the other can recharge it. Perpetually.

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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torrid said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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JayM said:

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I don't care what anybody chooses to drive. I have an ICE and a Lightning. I'm perfectly happy with both and both serve my purposes well. I hope neither spontaneously combusts.

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I am surprised someone hasn't pointed out that only the ICE can be used to jumpstart another car. The irony of EVs not having the ability to jumpstart a dead battery.
As you well said, each vehicle has a specific use case.

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What about using a long extension cord to have one EV power another EV? Seems to me they could drive down the interstate and just keep within a couple of car lengths of each other.

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These are high voltage DC motors. You'd need a very thick and heavy extension cord.

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Natch. When one nears depletion, the other can recharge it. Perpetually.

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Nope, there is actually a removable panel in the floorpan right in front of the driver's seat. If you run out of charge, you can Fred Flintstone it around for a few miles to get a recharge.

Soon I bet they add ports for oars.

Other cars can’t do what a Tesla can do pic.twitter.com/xtwpqEQseE

— Teslaconomics (@Teslaconomics) September 6, 2023

I bet at some point someone sues Tesla for them not being able to float well.

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Tesla chief executive Elon Musk has claimed in the past that the Model S can float for short periods of time and last year, even claimed that the Cybertruck will be able to "cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren't too choppy." It is statements like these that may have fooled the owner of this Model 3 into thinking they could get away with driving through the flood waters without issue.

While the Model 3 may have made it through the water, it is entirely possible that the dirty water will seep into important mechanical components of the car, potentially damaging it. In April, a Twitter user by the name of Jason Hughes revealed that a Tesla-owning client of his drove through water for a few seconds. A few days later, the car would not start and Hughes quickly discovered that water had seeped into the battery pack and it had started to corrode.

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Sigh, some people…

nortex97 said:

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Soon I bet they add ports for oars.

Other cars can’t do what a Tesla can do pic.twitter.com/xtwpqEQseE

— Teslaconomics (@Teslaconomics) September 6, 2023

I bet at some point someone sues Tesla for them not being able to float well.

Quote:

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Tesla chief executive Elon Musk has claimed in the past that the Model S can float for short periods of time and last year, even claimed that the Cybertruck will be able to "cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren't too choppy." It is statements like these that may have fooled the owner of this Model 3 into thinking they could get away with driving through the flood waters without issue.

While the Model 3 may have made it through the water, it is entirely possible that the dirty water will seep into important mechanical components of the car, potentially damaging it. In April, a Twitter user by the name of Jason Hughes revealed that a Tesla-owning client of his drove through water for a few seconds. A few days later, the car would not start and Hughes quickly discovered that water had seeped into the battery pack and it had started to corrode.

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Sigh, some people…

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Sure, it'll get through the water only to burst into flames a few days later.

techno-ag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Soon I bet they add ports for oars.

Other cars can’t do what a Tesla can do pic.twitter.com/xtwpqEQseE

— Teslaconomics (@Teslaconomics) September 6, 2023

I bet at some point someone sues Tesla for them not being able to float well.

Quote:

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Tesla chief executive Elon Musk has claimed in the past that the Model S can float for short periods of time and last year, even claimed that the Cybertruck will be able to "cross rivers, lakes & even seas that aren't too choppy." It is statements like these that may have fooled the owner of this Model 3 into thinking they could get away with driving through the flood waters without issue.

While the Model 3 may have made it through the water, it is entirely possible that the dirty water will seep into important mechanical components of the car, potentially damaging it. In April, a Twitter user by the name of Jason Hughes revealed that a Tesla-owning client of his drove through water for a few seconds. A few days later, the car would not start and Hughes quickly discovered that water had seeped into the battery pack and it had started to corrode.

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Sigh, some people…

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Sure, it'll get through the water only to burst into flames a few days later.

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Each Tesla now comes with a complementary bag of marshmallows, box of graham crackers, and a few chocolate bars. You still have to find your own stick.

Isn't that supposed to make it burst into flames?

GAC06 said:

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Isn't that supposed to make it burst into flames?

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If it is salt water, the car is toast.

Buddy of mine took this in central texas today:

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The virtue signaling is 100 percent with this Tesla hippie. AZ plates "TTYLGAS". I hate Tesla and BMW drivers so much. Does hippie from AZ know tires are made from petroleum? Batteries mines by enslaved kids?

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I think this is how a lot of us view these things, especially with silly vanity plates as they…disproportionately have.

TBF to EV owners, (simps?) I have seldom seen a custom plate and not thought "what a pretentious individual they must be."

This one is pretty special to me though. I audibly laughed.

Plug in hybrid and EV owners/drivers targeted in Florida with 50-300-ish buck a year fee, escalating over time.

Good to see. Go after those freeloaders. Maintain our roads.

My God, $250 a year? When paying no gas or maintenance I don't know how EV drivers will afford that.

nortex97 said:

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Plug in hybrid and EV owners/drivers targeted in Florida with 50-300-ish buck a year fee, escalating over time.

Good to see. Go after those freeloaders. Maintain our roads.

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All of this from folks that decry any sort of government interference in the free market ... I guess unless it is to tilt it to suit their own ideology.

Bubblez said:

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nortex97 said:

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Plug in hybrid and EV owners/drivers targeted in Florida with 50-300-ish buck a year fee, escalating over time.

Good to see. Go after those freeloaders. Maintain our roads.

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All of this from folks that decry any sort of government interference in the free market ... I guess unless it is to tilt it to suit their own ideology.

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This is to correct an inequity by which the wealthy avoid paying their 'fair share.' I am shocked you'd disagree with it.

You'd have to repeal the gas tax in order for the free market to not have government intervention in this case.

hph6203 said:

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You'd have to repeal the gas tax in order for the free market to not have government intervention in this case.

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You'd still need a mechanism to pay for road maintenance.

The federal government (and CCP, and CARB etc) are coming hard after my ability to purchase reasonable/good vehicles moving forward, and it's not 'right' or logical for 'my team' to only play defense.

EV drivers/owners are disproportionately white, wealthy, and politically left still today, so again it is perhaps surprising our political left wouldn't want to 'soak the rich' so to speak with more taxes. But it reminds me again of SALT deduction limit hissy fits from the northeastern states.

Oh, I wasn't advocating removing the gas tax. I was pointing out not having some form of road use tax for EVs is the government manipulation of the market. Adding a road use tax for EVs is the opposite of market manipulation, it's market balancing.

It's a bit ham fisted as the gas tax is actually a somewhat direct relationship to consumption, but it's better than the alternative of taxing electricity either in general as it would be unfair to non-EV owners or taxing sales at public chargers as they aren't used as frequently as gas pumps and would disincentivize their use forcing EV drivers to even more preferentially charge at home and ultimately reducing the rate of expansion of chargers.

100% toll roads. Those who use 'em pay for 'em. No fuel taxes.

I think an odometer driven road tax makes some sense, overall, and ideally this would be linked to gross vehicle weight (EV's are heavier, though I think most actual road damage is from commercial vehicles, and it would be logical to place the tax on the vehicles causing the most wear/damage, especially as some are pushing for even heavier commercial vehicles like EV buses/trucks).

Another EV fire requiring 45 times the water to put out. At the Nissan HQ no less, LOL.

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An electrical vehicle fire at Nissan Headquarters Tuesday afternoon required several more hours and 45 times more gallons of water to put out than a conventional vehicle fire.

It's a challenge the Franklin Fire Department warns "all fire departments are struggling with" because lithium-ion battery fires often cannot be extinguished until the battery cell has released its energy.

Firefighters were dispatched around 4:42 p.m. after the car caught fire in the parking lot of 1 Nissan Way. According to Franklin Fire Marshal Andy King, the vehicle, a Nissan Leaf, had been charging on a Level 3 charger, which is the fastest charging device.

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Level 3 chargers are great, and perfectly safe. Trust the manufacturers.

cecil77 said:

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100% toll roads. Those who use 'em pay for 'em. No fuel taxes.

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As someone with DV tags I love this idea

nortex97 said:

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I think an odometer driven road tax makes some sense, overall, and ideally this would be linked to gross vehicle weight (EV's are heavier, though I think most actual road damage is from commercial vehicles, and it would be logical to place the tax on the vehicles causing the most wear/damage, especially as some are pushing for even heavier commercial vehicles like EV buses/trucks).

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They'll be tracking your every move and you'll enjoy your citation you receive in the mail every time you inadvertently exceed the speed limit by 5 mph. Get behind on an IRS payment? No driving for you. Did you go to the gun store today? Another check mark on your naughty list.

This wouldn't be restricted to just EV's.

Teslag said:

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This wouldn't be restricted to just EV's.

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Yeah, no ****, I'm just saying, it's best not invite additional government scrutiny into your life. Nothing wrong with the gas tax for ICE vehicles and additional registration fee for EVs to pay for road use.