tk for tu juan said:

---

Cybertruck size compared to Super Duty, too big IMO

---

It will be interesting to see the first person that may regularly try to use this EV at the saltwater boat ramp.

ShinerAggie said:

---

tk for tu juan said:

---

Cybertruck size compared to Super Duty, too big IMO

---

It will be interesting to see the first person that may regularly try to use this EV at the saltwater boat ramp.

---

Some very poor QC there. Would not buy.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cybertruck-musk-complains-about-quality-issues-while-teasing-production-candidate-142334750.html

Quote:

---

Users online and on Tesla message boards were quick to point out some irregularities with fit and finish, like inconsistent panel gaps, in the Cybertruck photo posted by Musk on Wednesday. The concern is that Tesla - notorious for production issues like irregular panel gaps and ill-fitting parts - was having similar issues with the Cybertruck.

---

nortex97 said:

---

"I have seen" is an anecdotal tale I don't think is worth responding to in detail. I'll consider responding further if/when you provide some sort of logical/factually based data points.

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

We have found a lot of the battery pack manufacturers do not design their packs for off-road equipment. Most are designed for applications like buses and on-road vehicles so we have to do a lot of testing for off-road and marine applications. Vibration and g-shock kills a lot so before I put one in an off-road vehicle I would look at the testing. Of course fires would be the worst but more than likely whatever is holding the cells together will fail first which will stop the vehicle right away

Batteries are just by their nature very corrosive and degrade structurally and every other way over time. All of them. These things will get the crap beat out of them off-roading in these massive vehicles.

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

"I have seen" is an anecdotal tale I don't think is worth responding to in detail. I'll consider responding further if/when you provide some sort of logical/factually based data points.

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

Between 2014-2016, an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States each year, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss.

Given pre 2016 there were almost no electric cars on the road, I think it is safe to say that these fires and deaths were from ICE vehicles.
The only time you hear in the news of someone dying in a vehicle fire with an ICE is the women hit by Henry Ruggs in Vegas that caused her RAV 4 to catch fire and they couldn't get her out before the fire killed her.

https://blog.gitnux.com/car-fire-statistics/

Kansas Kid said:

---

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

"I have seen" is an anecdotal tale I don't think is worth responding to in detail. I'll consider responding further if/when you provide some sort of logical/factually based data points.

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

Between 2014-2016, an estimated 171,500 highway vehicle fires occurred in the United States each year, resulting in an annual average of 345 deaths; 1,300 injuries; and $1.1 billion in property loss.

Given pre 2016 there were almost no electric cars on the road, I think it is safe to say that these fires and deaths were from ICE vehicles.
The only time you hear in the news of someone dying in a vehicle fire with an ICE is the women hit by Henry Ruggs in Vegas that caused her RAV 4 to catch fire and they couldn't get her out before the fire killed her.

https://blog.gitnux.com/car-fire-statistics/

---

I can't tell if you are trying to respond to me with some sort of data that is logical/factual to your claim or not. I'll just assume you are, for giggles here. Your original statement I responded to was:

Quote:

---

I have seen ICE vehicles go up in flames so fast people had a hard time getting out in time and there are numerous stories of people not getting out. There is also the risk of a fuel leak from a roll over that doesn't exist with an EV (and EVs are way less likely to roll over). All I am saying is people need to acknowledge that there is a fire risk with all vehicles. Also, go look at the material on the underside of a Tesla. It is way more puncture resistant than the fuel system of an ICE.

---

Now, you have provided what amounts to a PowerPoint slide deck of anecdotal unsourced statistics from some source (Gitnux) I've never heard of, about vehicle fires, I believe to buttress your claim that 'you have seen ICE vehicles go up in flames so fast people had a hard time getting out in time.' I don't know what you intend with the Henry Ruggs Vegas incident anecdote.

What I do know is that engineers, and fire safety professionals/educators, are very concerned about EV fires, particularly as they continue to comprise an increasing share of new and used vehicles alike. Even in recycling facilities, it's a massive/growing problem. When these fires happen, much of the guidance is to just let it burn until it is finally exhausted.

Quote:

---

WHAT WORKS: LET IT BURN
The truth of the matter is there is no simple solution or tool to stop a thermal runaway in an EV's high-voltage battery. Directly cooling the battery cells is the best method, however the manufacturers do not give first responders direct access to the inside of the battery box. Trying to cool the battery cells from the outside will only extend a crew's time on scene.

If the battery box is intact and there are no exposures, the best solution is to simply wait for the battery to burn itself out, then extinguish the remaining class A fire. While this strategy is not ideal and not one favored by aggressive, proactive and eager firefighters it's really the best approach. It should only take an hour for the battery to burn itself out. The alternative will be to continually dump water on the vehicle for 6 to 8 hours.

---

Again, old batteries are much more dangerous than brand new ones, I believe (absent DIY wiring errors/mistakes), and as we have more and more used vehicles that have been abused in rental/commercial fleet duty service etc., we will see more 'stuff' happening at scale, unfortunately.

The original source data from FEMA
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf

I agree that battery fires, when they happen are worse on average but they happen way far less than ICE car fires. This is a similar concept as a plane accident is way worse on average than a car accident but that doesn't mean planes are a more dangerous method of transportation. The point of the Ruggs example is that is the rare time an ICE fire death was widely reported while a Tesla fire anywhere in the country will get reported so people begin to think you are way more likely to die in an EV than an ICE.

All I am pointing out is if you are worried about an EV catching fire and killing you then you should worry about any car.

And then we get to survivability of crashes where EV have a huge edge due to low CG, crumple zone design, weight, etc vs similar size cars…..

Kansas Kid said:

---

The original source data from FEMA
https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/statistics/v19i2.pdf

I agree that battery fires, when they happen are worse on average but they happen way far less than ICE car fires. This is a similar concept as a plane accident is way worse on average than a car accident but that doesn't mean planes are a more dangerous method of transportation. The point of the Ruggs example is that is the rare time an ICE fire death was widely reported while a Tesla fire anywhere in the country will get reported so people begin to think you are way more likely to die in an EV than an ICE.

All I am pointing out is if you are worried about an EV catching fire and killing you then you should worry about any car.

And then we get to survivability of crashes where EV have a huge edge due to low CG, crumple zone design, weight, etc vs similar size cars…..

---

Old cars catch on fire, especially when not maintained well.

That's not part of my rationale for not ever buying a BEV. The economic, social, fiscal, political, safety, and environmental reasons are.

Old BEV's also won't be maintained well, just fyi. Not all car fires present an equal danger to those near/about/in them.

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

Teslag said:

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

He doesn't need to respond with facts or data.

Teslag said:

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

Non sequitur. There's no such thing as a 30 year old EV (yet). I'm against the unwarranted hate EV's receive but you're the king of arguing for them fallaciously despite logic being on your side in most cases. And for that reason I don't know why you fall on fallacy so often.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Teslag said:

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

He doesn't need to respond with facts or data.

---

I generally don't respond to that poster/leave them on ignore, let alone allow them to define what I need to provide/what it means. I think I've responded to your non sequitur replies/anecdotes just about enough, kinda funny you are still complaining about what I think about the safety risks/degradation of EV's.

In short, EV charging infrastructure sucks in that EV pioneer state of CA, and he wonders if they can't get it right there, what is the rest of the US going to do?

If you believe at looking at the worst implementation of a technology to determine its viability then you don't believe in capitalism.

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

"I have seen" is an anecdotal tale I don't think is worth responding to in detail. I'll consider responding further if/when you provide some sort of logical/factually based data points.

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

All of them?

torrid said:

---

Teslag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

"I have seen" is an anecdotal tale I don't think is worth responding to in detail. I'll consider responding further if/when you provide some sort of logical/factually based data points.

---

What percent of EV's catch fire within 5 years? Or even 10 years? Be precise.

---

All of them?

---

So every single EV will catch fire within 5 years?

EV's offer lot's of tech but struggle to deploy it…reliably.

Quote:

---

Of the advanced tech features offered on both electric and internal combustion vehicles that J.D. Power looked at in its latest Tech Experience Study, problems per 100 vehicles were higher for the new energy vehicles than they were for traditional ones.

Electric vehicles had considerably more problems per 100 units than their ICE counterparts in remote parking assistance, interior gesture controls, and more. That reflects other research by J.D. Power that found that initial quality problems are 46 percent higher for EVs than in ICE vehicles. Further, satisfaction with EVs was lower in most categories in the Automotive Performance, Execution, and Layout (APEAL) study.

---

nortex97 said:

---

EV's offer lot's of tech but struggle to deploy it…reliably.

Quote:

---

Of the advanced tech features offered on both electric and internal combustion vehicles that J.D. Power looked at in its latest Tech Experience Study, problems per 100 vehicles were higher for the new energy vehicles than they were for traditional ones.

Electric vehicles had considerably more problems per 100 units than their ICE counterparts in remote parking assistance, interior gesture controls, and more. That reflects other research by J.D. Power that found that initial quality problems are 46 percent higher for EVs than in ICE vehicles. Further, satisfaction with EVs was lower in most categories in the Automotive Performance, Execution, and Layout (APEAL) study.

---

---

Did they try rebooting their rolling iPads?!?!?!

It is pretty common sense, we have been building ICE vehicles for over 100 years and had a lot of time to work the kinks out. My company has over 200 electric units out working in the field and we do see a lot more issues than ICE based units. We are closing in on 10 years of electric units, ICE is still way ahead of us.

A lot of what we do is "off-road" like mining, O&G, and construction that operate 24/7 in much harsher conditions than on-road vehicles likes cars and buses. In order to stay price competitive we use a lot of on-road based equipment and we run into issues.

Off reading with an ev is just begging for problems.

No paved roads on mines so off roading it is.

Honestly items being robust enough is not the issue, it is stuff like turbine and diesel generators have dirty power and need filtering before systems can operate/charge

nortex97 said:

---

Off reading with an ev is just begging for problems.

---

Luckily companies like Tesla employ the brightest engineers on the planet that can see past the forest.

I went to school with a couple kids at Tesla now.

Did they give you an inferiority complex?

/Teslag

EV's…now take twice as long to sell, both new and used, as last year. That seems…odd, given the booming auto segment in general.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/08/we-experienced-the-nightmare-that-prospective-ev-buyers-are-afraid-of/

Another story about the fun of needing a charge and not being able to get one. I know, the infrastructure just needs to catch up, or he should of been driving a Tesla and none of this would have happened.

nortex97 said:

---

EV's…now take twice as long to sell, both new and used, as last year. That seems…odd, given the booming auto segment in general.

---

Lots of folks aren't buying them again.

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

I went to school with a couple kids at Tesla now.

---

And you went to one of the finest engineering schools in the world.

techno-ag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

EV's…now take twice as long to sell, both new and used, as last year. That seems…odd, given the booming auto segment in general.

---

Lots of folks aren't buying them again.

---

Define lots

Teslag said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

nortex97 said:

---

EV's…now take twice as long to sell, both new and used, as last year. That seems…odd, given the booming auto segment in general.

---

Lots of folks aren't buying them again.

---

Define lots

---

Quote:

---

The data for July 2023 shows that it takes an average of 50 days to sell a new EV, which is almost double the time it took in July 2022 (25.2 days). The situation is even worse for used EVs, now selling at an average of 57.8 days compared to 26.4 days last year.

---

Your link doesn't say EV buyers aren't buying them again.

Teslag said:

---

Your link doesn't say EV buyers aren't buying them again.

---

And?

I won't buy an EV until the electricity originates with natural gas or nuclear. And until the batteries can be fully recycled. Solar and wind are absolutely terrible for the environment, far worse than O&G.