Will. Not is.

You said:

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anyone who lives in an apartment or condo does not have access to a charging station at home

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That's obviously wrong. Lots of condos have garages for each resident, and many apartments have chargers. Obviously there is a ways to go for apartments supporting widespread EV usage

If you want to parse words down to anyone vs the vast majority, have at it.

Philip J Fry said:

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If you want to parse words down to anyone vs the vast majority, have at it.

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Did I use those words?

It's going to take 25+ years for the majority vehicle on the road to be electric, it's going to take 40 years before you can even think they might be nearing 100% penetration.

People need to stop with the AOC brain on both sides, thinking that the transition is going to happen in 10 years or that people should expect it to. As if there's enough manufacturing capacity come even remotely close to that. She's ******ed.


Quite frankly I think we're going to have self driving cars before poor apartment dwellers that have little expectation of a charging stations being installed at their apartment even begin to worry about not having a gas vehicle alternative. With them collectively saying "**** owning a car, I've got an app for that."

Even if we don't, by 2040 I don't think it's unreasonable to think we'll have vehicles that charge in <10 minutes with 75% of all charging being done at a persons home.

Philip J Fry said:

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I'm going to make a wild assumption and say anyone who lives in an apartment or condo does not have access to a charging station at home.

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We are talking about the average American. 70 percent of Americans live in a single family residence.

For the love of god, let this damn thread die already.

IslanderAg04 said:

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For the love of god, let this damn thread die already.

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No one is forcing you read it.

Teslag said:

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We are talking about the average American. 70 percent of Americans live in a single family residence.

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Can EV promoters afford to ignore the other 30 percent of the population?

CarEdge Report for vehicle ownership 5 years


Toyota Prius
https://caredge.com/toyota/prius

The average cost of owning a Toyota Prius for 5 years is $22,959. This total will vary per vehicle, driver and location. These ownership expenses include:

Depreciation
Insurance Premiums
Maintenance and Repairs
Loan Interest
Fuel Costs
Rating: A+


Tesla 3

https://caredge.com/tesla/model-3

The average cost of owning a Tesla Model 3 for 5 years is $39,175. This total will vary per vehicle, driver and location. These ownership expenses include:

Depreciation
Insurance Premiums
Maintenance and Repairs
Loan Interest
Fuel Costs

Rating: B-

Teslag said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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I'm going to make a wild assumption and say anyone who lives in an apartment or condo does not have access to a charging station at home.

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We are talking about the average American. 70 percent of Americans live in a single family residence.

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You mean more like 65%, but who is counting.

You're comparing a top of the line Tesla Model 3, with a mid-grade Prius. That Model 3 they have listed is a $60,000 car. The Prius is a $32,000.

I think their depreciation rate is jacked too based upon the list prices of used Teslas.

Philip J Fry said:

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Teslag said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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I'm going to make a wild assumption and say anyone who lives in an apartment or condo does not have access to a charging station at home.

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We are talking about the average American. 70 percent of Americans live in a single family residence.

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You mean more like 65%, but who is counting.

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So at 65% the average American is still living in a single family residence

Audi A4

https://caredge.com/audi/a4

$47,000 new price. 5 year cost of ownership the same as the $60,000 Tesla.

BMW 3-Series 49,000 selling price. $8,000 more cost of ownership over 5 years.

https://caredge.com/bmw/3-series

Porsche also has investments in silicon anode tech

GAC06 said:

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That's a bad assumption. Charging will be available more and more at apartments

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Someday we'll be living in Utopia.

techno-ag said:

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GAC06 said:

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That's a bad assumption. Charging will be available more and more at apartments

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Someday we'll be living in Utopia.

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What did he say that wasn't untrue?

He implied that chargers are available at apartments, then continued to say they will be available at apartments.

Philip J Fry said:

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He implied that chargers are available at apartments, then continued to say they will be available at apartments.

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And that isn't wrong.

Both statements cannot be right.

Once again. You said:

Quote:

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anyone who lives in an apartment or condo does not have access to a charging station at home

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That is false. There are already apartments and especially condos with chargers. More apartments are getting chargers as time goes on. HTH. Again.

Not to mention anyone with an apartment or condo with a garage and 115v outlet can reasonable expect 20 miles per overnight charge. For many urban commuters in multifamily house (a large portion of the US population) this is more than enough.

Also have 220/240V if you can find two 120V outlets that are out of phase with each other

"Some" problems with EV's are being noted over in the UK:

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So EV market share, at least in the U.K., is declining, not rising. Meanwhile, the British government demands more EVs:

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From next year manufacturers must ensure that at least 22 per cent of new car sales and 10 per cent of new vans are emissions-free. This will rise every year incrementally to 80 per cent for cars and 70 per cent for vans by 2030, and 100 per cent for both by 2035.

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A race to the bottom, demanding more subsidies. Hmm…

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But there are other problems, too, as the Telegraph notes:

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There were always obvious problems with the technology: the electricity has to come from somewhere, and Britain isn't installing enough chargers to meet government targets. And that's before you take the rocketing price of electricity into account, which means that thousands of the handy roadside chargers where motorists could charge up for nothing have been pulled. There are nearly 40 per cent fewer than a year ago.

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All electric vehicle plans and calculations that failed to take into account the skyrocketing cost of electricity, driven by inefficient (if not useless) expenditures on wind and solar energy, are defunct. But that's not all:

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It now turns out that some bridges may not be able to take the weight of electric cars which, due to their large battery packs, are heavier than their petrol equivalents. Cue lengthy detours to a sturdier crossing point.

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More unforeseen, and entirely needless, consequences.

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A further issue is what happens when an electric car hits a pedestrian or a cyclist. Because they're so heavy, the impact can be worse than that of a normal car. Urban 4x4s used to get a bad press because they could flatten pedestrians like a tank, but an electric car can do the same. Because they're so quiet unless they come with the fake engine noises manufacturers are working on people might not hear them coming.

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This is a wrinkle I hadn't anticipated. Electric vehicles need to pretend to be gasoline-powered to minimize collisions with pedestrians.

Electric vehicles were among the first to be produced, a century ago. They lost out to gasoline-powered cars, because those vehicles are better. It was true 100 years ago, and it is still true today. And that is before we get into the catastrophic environmental evils of EVs.

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techno-ag said:

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GAC06 said:

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That's a bad assumption. Charging will be available more and more at apartments

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Someday we'll be living in Utopia.

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Some of the student complexes here are having them put in.

From the automotive board.

satexas said:

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https://www.tiktok.com/@crosstalksolutions/video/7161521190748802350

This hacking tool is just wow.

https://flipperzero.one/

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Look at the labor cost.

techno-ag said:

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From the automotive board.

satexas said:

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https://www.tiktok.com/@crosstalksolutions/video/7161521190748802350

This hacking tool is just wow.

https://flipperzero.one/

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I have a flipper zero. I gotta do that.

Meanwhile, Tesla is canceling production of various right hand drive vehicles (UK, Australia, other countries)
" Tesla is no longer making a right-hand drive version of its Model S and Model X electric vehicles. The decision means that customers in countries that drive on the other side of the road, like the UK, have had orders canceled, and potential buyers are being told to buy a different model, a car from inventory, or try a left-hand drive version."

"About 30 percent of the world's nations drive on the left side of the road, known confusingly as right-hand drive, as the driver's seat is on the right side of the car. The UK is probably the best-known right-hand drive country, along with most of its former colonies. While most of these are small countries, the list also includes highly populous countries like Japan, Indonesia, and India."

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/05/tesla-axes-right-hand-drive-models-s-and-x-offers-customers-refunds/amp/

Musk has always been ruthless about simplicity, especially focusing on production. I have figured they'd do this at some point.

I don't see this as a 'negative' toward BEV's specifically but it's an interesting business decision if in fact it's been made at the corporate level, overall.

anyone serious about owning an electric car has to have a 240 V outlet installed

relying on 120 V is ridiculous

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/12/business/tesla-recall-china.html

ChiComs are recalling 1 million Teslas.

Because their stupid citizens confuse the accelerator for the brake, panic, and hold the accelerator down until something stops them.

Recall makes it so drivers can turn off regenerative braking and go from mostly one pedal driving to two pedal driving. It also adds a warning when they've pushed the accelerator to the floor.

Quote:

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The vehicles have issues that may increase the probability of drivers "mistakenly stepping on the accelerator pedal" for an extended period, which could increase the risk of collision and pose a "safety hazard," the statement said.

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Yeah, there's a hardware problem, but it's between the driver's ears.


Does anyone read news articles anymore or is it all headlines?