Could also be done, but that is edging towards my modular swappable battery assertion.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Could also be done, but that is edging towards my modular swappable battery assertion.

---

But we know that an "empty bottle" /=/ an "empty battery". A battery is much more than a vessel. Don't know how they get around that issue. Why not retain your battery pack and recharge it as needed, say, in your room, at night?

Why not get a charged one at a standard charge station on a long trip, and leave your expended one. Battery subscription service.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Why not get a charged one at a standard charge station on a long trip, and leave your expended one. Battery subscription service.

---

Because the batteries would be sitting on a concrete pad waiting at such stations.

And if you don't know how that works, you wouldn't be the first.

Assuming a standard of uniformity/quality, I suppose it would be satisfactory. I'm unaware of that in the marketplace today, but guess it's doable. It's not as clear cut as filling an empty container, is it. A battery is more than a vessel, is it not? See my point? But if it functionally acts like one, then I suppose it's all the same.

The issue too is that the battery is now becoming a part of the structural rigidity of the vehicle itself. I know with the Y this is true with Teslas new cells. I guess it could work on smaller EV's with smaller batteries but in anything necessitating performance battery swaps will be impractical. And with 250kwh chargers they make little sense.

Yeah, but the thought of a six figure disposable capital item is distasteful to me.
Electrics like that that are a subscription service makes more sense to me than ownership of something that must basically be scrapped if it has a major failure outside of warranty.

Teslag said:

---

The issue too is that the battery is now becoming a part of the structural rigidity of the vehicle itself. I know with the Y this is true with Teslas new cells. I guess it could work on smaller EV's with smaller batteries but in anything necessitating performance battery swaps will be impractical. And with 250kwh chargers they make little sense.

---

Apples and crabapples.

We're talking supplemental battery packs to increase the range of any/all cars, not unlike those we use for phones, iPads, and laptops now. They are simply carried anywhere in the vehicle where they can be plugged into the system.

Edit to add: this is in the context of instead of pulling a trailer with a battery pack.

A Tesla is like a Mac. You're supposed to buy it at a premium as an appliance and use it until it needs to be replaced with a new one.

I'm more of an IBM guy. I want to customize and upgrade. I like "modular" vehicles. Just a preference.

How long do you keep your vehicles?

Teslag said:

---

The issue too is that the battery is now becoming a part of the structural rigidity of the vehicle itself. I know with the Y this is true with Teslas new cells. I guess it could work on smaller EV's with smaller batteries but in anything necessitating performance battery swaps will be impractical. And with 250kwh chargers they make little sense.

---

VinFast is a Vietnamese startup with a novel pricing idea. You buy the car for about the same as an ICE vehicle then lease the battery for a few dollars/month. When the battery can't hold more than a 70% charge they swap it out for you.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/made-in-vietnam-electric-vehicles-are-heading-to-the-u-s-market-11659346381

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Yeah, but the thought of a six figure disposable capital item is distasteful to me.
Electrics like that that are a subscription service makes more sense to me than ownership of something that must basically be scrapped if it has a major failure outside of warranty.

---

I'm not keeping any vehicle past 300k miles and teslas in the real are hitting that mark in battery life. I personally don't keep vehicles more than 100k miles or more than 4 years or so.

What are you expecting to recoup for your 4 year old 100,000 mile Tesla from Tesla? 50% of purchase price? More?

BoerneGator said:

---

Teslag said:

---

The issue too is that the battery is now becoming a part of the structural rigidity of the vehicle itself. I know with the Y this is true with Teslas new cells. I guess it could work on smaller EV's with smaller batteries but in anything necessitating performance battery swaps will be impractical. And with 250kwh chargers they make little sense.

---

Apples and crabapples.

We're talking supplemental battery packs to increase the range of any/all cars, not unlike those we use for phones, iPads, and laptops now. They are simply carried anywhere in the vehicle where they can be plugged into the system.

Edit to add: this is in the context of instead of pulling a trailer with a battery pack.

---

The supplemental packs themselves would have to affix in a crash-test approved way, and would also likely weigh too much for an average person to throw in a trunk etc. if affording any real range. Finally, a lot of the labor for these changes aren't just a few screws, but all of the intricate temperature sensors and heating/cooling interfaces.

The labor to change these can be many thousands because they are so structurally built in, glued for rigidity, electronically connected in other words, and we are moving further and further from a possibility of 'standardizing.' That's also part of the reason you find 8 year old models without any ready replacement.

GAC06 said:

---

How long do you keep your vehicles?

---

I drive them until they are unrepairable or until the once a decade occasion I might want a trade in on a new purchase because needs have changed. The newest vehicle I have is a 2017. The oldest is a 2000. I do most maintenance and repairs myself. It is easy once you know what you are doing.

Keep in mind I view a car like I would a tractor or lawnmower, primarily. It is a tool for specific functions. If it does then satisfactorily then all is well. most people consider that only a part of vehicle ownership. They may want to maximize comfort or enjoyment, or view a vehicle as a display or wealth or status or an extension of personality.

Electric vehicles are very interesting to me because they have the potential for being highly modular and very easily upgradable and repairable but that is the LAST thing the manufacturers want. They want the disposable consumable car that is purchased on a regular basis. Most consumers are happy with that, but it is not a sustainable model long term at scale with electrics.

BoerneGator said:

---

What are you expecting to recoup for your 4 year old 100,000 mile Tesla from Tesla? 50% of purchase price? More?

---

Since 4 year old Model 3's with around 100k miles are still selling for about what what they sold for new I expect way more than 50%.

Teslas still get a halo effect today of having always been capacity constrained when new so they only lose about 30 to 40 percent of value over five years but that depends on low mileage etc.

Most all other electrics lose a lot more value in that age range.

How do these supplemental packs compare to ones referred to earlier that are designed to pulled behind on a trailer? How do those "attach" or connect to the system? Are we talking hypothetically here, or do these packs already exist?

Teslag said:

---

BoerneGator said:

---

What are you expecting to recoup for your 4 year old 100,000 mile Tesla from Tesla? 50% of purchase price? More?

---

Since 4 year old Model 3's with around 100k miles are still selling for about what what they sold for new I expect way more than 50%.

---

I don't think that's a good data point in this market. My pickup (2018 model with 117,000 miles) would sell for about what I bought it for new as well. The desperation got used cars is pushing logic out the window

DrEvazanPhD said:

---

Teslag said:

---

BoerneGator said:

---

What are you expecting to recoup for your 4 year old 100,000 mile Tesla from Tesla? 50% of purchase price? More?

---

Since 4 year old Model 3's with around 100k miles are still selling for about what what they sold for new I expect way more than 50%.

---

I don't think that's a good data point in this market. My pickup (2018 model with 117,000 miles) would sell for about what I bought it for new as well. The desperation got used cars is pushing logic out the window

---

I wasn't clear with my question, but I was referring to purchase price of the new vehicle, not that of the trade-in vehicle.

Hypothetical

notex said:

---

Teslas still get a halo effect today of having always been capacity constrained when new so they only lose about 30 to 40 percent of value over five years but that depends on low mileage etc.

Most all other electrics lose a lot more value in that age range.

---

Most other 4 year old electrics are pieces of **** by comparison. The Model 3 is on pace to have the highest resale value of any car ever.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Hypothetical

---

So, it seems to me any supplement needn't be permanently affixed to the vehicle. Just put it in the boot. Agree?

I commend your ability to find one topic and then absolutely goal-tend the s*** out of it.

Yep, that could work, if it wasn't one very heavy unit.

BoerneGator said:

---

How do these supplemental packs compare to ones referred to earlier that are designed to pulled behind on a trailer? How do those "attach" or connect to the system? Are we talking hypothetically here, or do these packs already exist?

---

I don't think any of it exists for a production vehicle yet at least. Tesla I'd expect to be first, partly because they can name their price for at least a few thousand of whatever they slap their logo on. They showed a prototype trailer of sorts in Europe this year.

TefIon Don said:

---

I commend your ability to find one topic and then absolutely goal-tend the s*** out of it.

---

Saying EV's aren't for everyone or as trucks is "goaltending"?

MouthBQ98 said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

How long do you keep your vehicles?

---

I drive them until they are unrepairable or until the once a decade occasion I might want a trade in on a new purchase because needs have changed. The newest vehicle I have is a 2017. The oldest is a 2000. I do most maintenance and repairs myself. It is easy once you know what you are doing.

Keep in mind I view a car like I would a tractor or lawnmower, primarily. It is a tool for specific functions. If it does then satisfactorily then all is well. most people consider that only a part of vehicle ownership. They may want to maximize comfort or enjoyment, or view a vehicle as a display or wealth or status or an extension of personality.

Electric vehicles are very interesting to me because they have the potential for being highly modular and very easily upgradable and repairable but that is the LAST thing the manufacturers want. They want the disposable consumable car that is purchased on a regular basis. Most consumers are happy with that, but it is not a sustainable model long term at scale with electrics.

---

My bad, I forgot your comments about fancy cars on the automotive board.

" As long as they go where I want and haul what I want there, and I arrive not miserable, I'm happy. Excessive Comfort makes you soft and weak"

Yep. I don't want a plush sofa on wheels in a silent room. I can rest comfortably when I'm dead.

Not saying I wouldn't enjoy driving a really nice luxury car, but it just isn't who I am.

I'm somewhat similar. I don't need a lot of luxury. But I do like speed and performance. I spend a lot of time in my car so I want it to be fun and enjoyable. One thing about the Tesla I do love, and didn't expect to, was the self driving. When traffic is backed up and slow it's nice it just let it take over for me and I don't have to do anything other than give the steering wheel a nudge every few minutes.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

Yep. I don't want a plush sofa on wheels in a silent room. I can rest comfortably when I'm dead.

Not saying I wouldn't enjoy driving a really nice luxury car, but it just isn't who I am.

---

I live around D/FW. I am not quite as far to that side as you, but I seek safe anonymity primarily in my vehicles too, including for the kids/wife (most just happen to be gray/silver over the past 15 years). I don't have bumper stickers or any kind of signage/plates that would be memorable, just because there are so many nut cases out there. My goal is generally to get them to 10-12 years.

I don't derive any sense of pride in the cars I've owned, but it's also a fleet I meticulously keep up with the maintenance/tires/repairs on. (I believe Michelin should send me a share or something at some point.)

Even still, I enjoy 'car culture' quite a bit in terms of reading about it/keeping up with it. Some of it seems absurd at times to me (going into the brand forums, whether it's Ford/GM/Honda/Tesla/Audi, doesn't matter), but that is also partly a reflection of what I listen to: today I hit the joe organ-rich Benoit podcast yapping about…cars/tesla's etc, and then stuck in rural KS/OK I listened to some Dave Ramsey on AM. We have that kind of ideological diversity on here, though sometimes the Ramsey 'my way is the right way' gospel truth fire and brimstone type of attitude reminds me of…well anyway, the left.

Tesla batteries work for 300k to 500k miles. So I think you may misunderstand how advanced battery technology has become.

I don't trust those declarations any more than I do Fauci's latest screeds about booster vaccines.

Back to taxes, remember how the euro's tax(ed) larger displacement engines so much. Why not do the same thing relative to huge batteries in these things? That would decrease some of their huge environmental/carbon footprint in construction, and the 'rich folks' can brag about having the larger batteries even if they don't.

Make the rich folks driving tesla's pay more, I say, as their fair share should also include repayments of any subsidies they benefited directly from, and highway usage to date. Texas should figure out a way to property tax $100K+ EV owners at least 40K a year, giving some of that to grid operators/maintainers and some for road/highway dept etc. Or give some 'Robin hood' style to areas without EV charging stations/at risk to subsidize gas purchases for the 'poor.'

Quote:

---

Texas should figure out a way to property tax $100K+ EV owners at least 40K a year

---

All that hate is gonna eat you up

Florida Jaguar iPace nearly burns home down, but driver heard it and rolled it to the street first.

Quote:

---

The following day, Gonzalo Salazar returned to take the vehicle on a few errands driving for around 12 miles before he returned home and put the vehicle back in the garage.

When Salazar headed inside, he began hearing pops from the garage. Curious about the strange noise, he went to the garage, only to see thick smoke emanating from within.

"My thought immediately was, 'When there is smoke, there is fire,' and I need to get the car out of the house garage," Salazar said in his email to Elecktrek.

Listening to his instinct, he drove the smoking vehicle out of the garage and onto the street in front of his home.

He then headed back inside to grab his phone and call Jaguar roadside assistance to take the vehicle to safety.

"When I ended the conversation with them there were more pops, but this time it was followed by fire from under the car. I then called 911 to come help with the situation," Salazar wrote.

"But this was not a slow burn, once the fire started there were multiple pops, and the car was just engulfed in flames rapidly."

Firefighters responding to the scene used flame ******ant to douse the flames.

"There was debris flying everywhere so I kept my distance," Salazar said.

"After the fire department poured a special foam fire suppressant for what seemed a long time, the car was still making a humming sound coming from the front of the car."

By the time the fire was put out, the vehicle was reduced to ash, with only some parts near the hood remaining partly burned, pictures shared by Elecktrek showed.

---

That looks like…exactly what I don't want to ever have in my garage.

Quote:

---

Chevy and Hyundai who also used LG Chem cells in the Kona EV both ended up making massive recalls over the issue. In the case of the former, it took a lot of pressure, including a lot of reporting from Electrek, to finally replace the battery modules.

In the case of the Jaguar I-Pace, the automaker also uses LG pouch battery cells in its electric vehicle:The Florida-based vehicle owner told Elecktrek that he had left his car plugged into the charger on June 16 before he went to sleep.

Now a single battery fire wouldn't raise an alarm, but Salazar's I-Pace is not the first one to go up in flames under similar circumstances.

Electret reported on an early I-Pace catching on fire while parked in a driveway in the Netherlands back in 2018. Last year, another I-Pace caught on fire while parked in a driveway in Oregon. Another Jaguar I-Pace caught on fire while charging in Hungary last October.

Therefore, Salazar's I-Pace is the fourth known I-Pace to catch on fire while parked or charging.
While that's not as many as the 17 known Bolt EV battery fires, it is still a decent number considering there are only just over 50,000 I-Pace electric vehicles on the road today. In comparison, GM has delivered over 120,000 Chevy Bolt EVs.

Electrek contacted Jaguar about the Salazar's I-Pace fire and asked if the automaker has looked into a link between those four battery fires, especially as it relates to their LG battery cells.
Jaguar declined to answer our questions and responded with this statement:

Quote:

---

Jaguar Land Rover North America, LLC is committed to our customers' safety, and we are aware of this I-PACE incident in Boynton Beach, FL. We have been in contact with and are cooperating with the customer's insurance company expert regarding a vehicle inspection. JLRNA is unable to comment further on your questions until the investigation is completed.

---

---

Lucid EV plant has had an issue of late with 'thermal runaway' new batteries. They're not even making it out of the mfg plant!

Great technology.