They can't combust but they get really hot, in this case they got over 2000 degrees. The copper bus bars, wiring, and even some steel melted with how hot they got.

I just noticed this thread for some reason.

I'm just curious. Does anyone out there who favors an EV actually know if it is better or worse for the environment? Beyond just emissions from production? Nice big holes in the earth. Looks great.



So that's where the battery materials come from.




I wonder what the mpg are on these excavators and haulers is?



I wonder how many emissions are found at a lithium extraction plant?



Where do the materials come from to MAKE an EV? Or anything else you have at your home, your office, on your person! Oh, that's right, oil and nat gas.




EVs are always shown in studies to be lower in CI over the "life" of the vehicles which they are claiming to be 18 years! But they fail to mention how long EV batteries last? Which is about 8 years, maybe 10. Then there is the disposal or recycling emissions. So, yes, EVs might be better over ICE vehicles for emissions over a 10 year period, but does it really solve the problem?

It has already been discussed here: ELECTRICITY Production and Distribution. No where near capable of a big shift to EVs. Could you imagine California that is mandating all EVs by 2030 or 2035? They have been having rolling black-outs for years and not adding any power capacity or distribution (grid) improvements, so someone explain to me how that is going to work at more EVs plug into that failing system?

Don't get me wrong. Some EVs look cool and their acceleration is off the charts fun, But, hey, let's ruin the economy to get rid of all ICE vehicles! And if I had $100K to burn to have a third vehicle "for fun" maybe I would get one. But, it will be many years and technology leaps for me before I go down that rabbit hole.


Let's Go Brandon!!!!

I'll be getting mine in the next couple of weeks but environmental concerns played absolutely no part in my decision to go with a plug in hybrid

Quote:

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I wonder what the mpg are on these excavators and haulers is?

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Time to get a little nerdy.

Equipment like that, as I'm sure you know, doesn't go by mpg, but I can tell you with certainty that for those sizes, you're looking at 100-120 gallons of diesel per hour of operational run time. Very eco-friendly.

Most of the oil is found under the red states:
Texas
Louisiana
Oklahoma
North Dakota

The oil revenue makes these states especially Texas, very wealthy. The blue states don't like Texas having so much wealth.

The answer is Always follow the money!

Doesn't matter..libs gotta virtue signal

Cool.

I would have one for fun, but not for my main vehicle. But they need to become just a little more "manly" with better mileage before I'm "excited" about them. And, I would like to see big improvements in battery life, safety, and recycle plans.

I watched a Tesla die on an off ramp in Dallas yesterday. Was behind it on the Highway and it started acting like it was in mitral as it was going uphill. Barely made it to the top and died.

''Twas quite funny

Red Red Wine said:

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Cool.

I would have one for fun, but not for my main vehicle. But they need to become just a little more "manly" with better mileage before I'm "excited" about them. And, I would like to see big improvements in battery life, safety, and recycle plans.

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We needed a bigger vehicle once we became foster parents so decided to go the minivan route. Then when we took into account all of the appointments and visitations you have to transport the kids to without much help from the state, the 85mpg of the Pacifica started looking attractive.

AOC Wants To Sell Her Tesla After Elon Musk Teased Her Online https://t.co/WWDOPabiOZ pic.twitter.com/ChAxzFgmfZ

— Daily Wire (@realDailyWire) May 26, 2022

feelings matter....

I think it would be awesome to have a Tesla used strictly as the commuter vehicle. My office building has charging ports and could get one for the garage.

Then, a regular, gas powered truck for driving around town, hauling things, etc.

But I'm not that rich.

Im Gipper said:

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annie88 said:

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Captain Positivity said:

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Battery tech isn't there yet for it to make sense. I do think we will get there at some point. Have to figure out a way to not rely so much on the rare earth metals. There are some technologies on the way, but not nearly developed enough.

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It won't be in our lifetimes, our children's lifetimes or even our grandchildren's lifetimes. Pass that who knows.

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Exactly! Elon Musk has no idea what he is doing. InternetAnnie is the expert on battery technology!

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Not what I said at all.

They're working on the technology on a small scale, but it will not be there right now for people to only/mostly use electric cars like the Biden administration is trying to push. that's simply a fairytale right now.

You can laugh if you want. But it won't happen now.

And it's funny no one really talks about the cost of replacing those batteries or where most of them come from.

But by all means keep telling us how this technology, on a global scale, will be available within our lifetime.

The work on solid state batteries is interesting in that it should address a few things:

1. No fires.
2. More mileage between charges.
3. Much faster charge times

Not sure yet on recycling.

BUT - get some super-tech solid state batteries going and you might be able to do something special.

The other issue is to drive down the cost of buying one. They still carry a pretty good premium over a ton of ICE options.

aggiehawg said:

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I just cannot see EVs working for a large population unless large metro populations ban private ownership of vehicles with ICE and force them to only use public transport that does not include ICE.

ICE being internal combustion engines. Motors are supposed to be electric, except boat motors, other than trolling motors. Never understood that weird dichotomy. Drove my Dad nuts when I would ask about that.

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Websters defines MOTOR as :

NOUN
[ol]

a machine, especially one powered by electricity or internal combustion, that supplies motive power for a vehicle or for some other device with moving parts.

[/ol]


If you look at it this way, it makes more sense.

Worked in a warehouse when in college, drove a battery-operated forklift. When it needed a new battery, you went to the center of the warehouse to a changing station. They would pull the empty battery on a roller track system, put it in a rack and plug it in to be charged. They then would grab a charged battery and put it in your forklift and send you on your way.

This would be a way for gas stations today to keep EVs charged but they would need to make batteries universal and removable so they could be swapped out. They do something like this and then maybe I could get behind owning an EV. It would allow you to take long road trips knowing you could get a refill on the go without having to wait for your car to charge.

It is similar to the propane tank. Swap out a tank for a full one and go about your business. Thoughts?

agmom in South Texas

ag grandkids in Ft Worth

aint gonna work !

Brownsville to Fort Worth can be done with one single charge stop at Buccees.

when it comes to grandkids, agmom stops at nothing...nothing...nothing

Ah the old, we travel 500 miles and don't stop to piss bit. I love this one.

Teslag said:

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Brownsville to Fort Worth can be done with one single charge stop at Buccees.

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Could do that without a stop in my hybrid.

And I could do that in my diesel truck. But I don't. I like to piss in clean toilets instead of a bottle and maybe grab a bite to eat. You know, like most people do.

Teslag said:

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And I could do that in my diesel truck. But I don't. I like to piss in clean toilets instead of a bottle and maybe grab a bite to eat. You know, like most people do.

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A pee stop is like two minutes. Solely speaking to charging/fueling stops.

And a charge stop is roughly 20 minutes. A 20 minute stop on 7.5 hour jaunt from Brownsville to Fort Worth. 20 minutes is a deal breaker.

EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

Teslas haven't received federal tax "subsidies" in years. They just had their most profitable quarter ever without them.

Houstonag said:

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EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

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Likewise, I'd prefer not to feel guilty about the poor slaves (often children) working to make my vehicle.

Never been particularly worried about saving the world, but I do think the tech in these cars is pretty impressive and that's the most interesting selling point to me. From an innovation stand point, it's hard not to be curious about things like autopilot, instant torque, etc., in a production car. I've found the various ownership comparisons on vehicle websites pretty interesting about what it's like to own one of these things without having to be evangelized to. Here's a recent 40k 3-year follow from Road and Track.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

Seems to me that these cars are great for a certain subset of people. Personally, I'd like to have one as my daily driver on my standardized commute (and a garage connection). It seems like it would be enjoyable to drive from a performance standpoint, the highway commuting would be more enjoyable, and the maintenance/gas costs would be icing on the cake.

That being said, I don't think I could be an "EV" only family. Seems like these are two different tools at this point. One is a drill while the other is an impact driver. Both have their uses, both can "technically" do the job of the other 90% of the time, but one is certainly better for some tasks than the other and vice versa. I think having something for the 25 miles to and from work everyday, and then a gasoline SUV as a secondary vehicle for longer trips/towing would be the way to go.

Teslag said:

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Teslas haven't received federal tax "subsidies" in years. They just had their most profitable quarter ever without them.

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Teslas arent the only EVs. You know that, right?

All but Tesla still get a $7500 subsidy.

nortex97 said:

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Houstonag said:

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EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

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Likewise, I'd prefer not to feel guilty about the poor slaves (often children) working to make my vehicle.

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Why would you feel guilty?

They have a job. You can't put US ethos on third world nations. In a lot of places it's that, sex trade, or starvation.

My bladder won't let me. Lol. My Prius gets 58 mpg in town.

That is not my understanding. Tesla and Space X have received government subsidies. How it shows up in your price I do not know but again I have read they do get a subsidy.

BigRobSA said:

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nortex97 said:

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Houstonag said:

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EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

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Likewise, I'd prefer not to feel guilty about the poor slaves (often children) working to make my vehicle.

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Why would you feel guilty?

They have a job. You can't put US ethos on third world nations. In a lot of places it's that, sex trade, or starvation.

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I realize a lot of EV owners/drivers don't care, but I don't want to picture/consider the human and environmental, in addition to economic damage my vehicle decision would make, were I such an individual.

I don't think slavery is something to dismiss as 'well, that's just too bad.'

BigRobSA said:

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nortex97 said:

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Houstonag said:

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EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

---

Likewise, I'd prefer not to feel guilty about the poor slaves (often children) working to make my vehicle.

---

Why would you feel guilty?

They have a job. You can't put US ethos on third world nations. In a lot of places it's that, sex trade, or starvation.

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Not to mention if you have an issue with lithium mining then you better be prepared to ditch your smartphone, laptop, cordless tools, and just about every other modern electric device. If not, you're a hypocrite.

nortex97 said:

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BigRobSA said:

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nortex97 said:

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Houstonag said:

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EVs are not for me. The overall economics, ride, power, luxury, ac performance and true impact to the country is something I cannot support. EVs are a fraud due the subsidy and true impact.

---

Likewise, I'd prefer not to feel guilty about the poor slaves (often children) working to make my vehicle.

---

Why would you feel guilty?

They have a job. You can't put US ethos on third world nations. In a lot of places it's that, sex trade, or starvation.

---

I realize a lot of EV owners/drivers don't care, but I don't want to picture/consider the human and environmental, in addition to economic damage my vehicle decision would make, were I such an individual.

I don't think slavery is something to dismiss as 'well, that's just too bad.'

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So you'll ditch your smartphone and cordless tools? And laptop? You're a better man than I am.