cecil77 said:Teslag said:
For some it is, for some it isn't. It's not wise to make a blanket statement for everyone's situation.
How to say "not ready for prime time" w/out saying not ready for prime time.
aggiehawg said:
The reason why is The Hubs has a hard time keeping the lake house golf cart charged, all of his tools charged.
We have multiple 200 amps drops on the ranch. But keeping that many things charged even on a trickle cell does not work forever. They die.
Until battery tech makes a HUGE advancement, EVs are futile.
Now, tell me why I am wrong.
Daddy said:aggiehawg said:
The reason why is The Hubs has a hard time keeping the lake house golf cart charged, all of his tools charged.
We have multiple 200 amps drops on the ranch. But keeping that many things charged even on a trickle cell does not work forever. They die.
Until battery tech makes a HUGE advancement, EVs are futile.
Now, tell me why I am wrong.
I won't buy because woke left govt wants us too
That's enough for me to go opposite dirsction
Ice for me
Largest I can afford
Quote:
President Joe Biden's Department of Interior Secretary Deb Haaland is seemingly unaware that China controls the world's critical minerals supply chain the very raw materials needed to produce batteries for electric vehicles.
During a Senate hearing this week, Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO) questioned Haaland about the Biden administration's strict regulations that seek to boost electric vehicles over gas-powered vehicles.
The issue with the regulations, though, is that the materials needed to make electric vehicle batteries are controlled by China, as Breitbart News has extensively reported. Haaland, when asked by Hawley if she was knowledgeable of China's controlling the supply chain for electric vehicle batteries, said she was unaware.
The exchange went as follows:Last month, reports circulated that the Biden administration's tax credits for electric vehicles made in the United States, Mexico, or Canada are "running into a problem" as China's grip on the critical mineral supply chain grows stronger.Quote:
HAWLEY: On the subject of these sweeping mandates related to electric vehicles that the Biden administration has imposed, including for our military, the metals needed to make the lithium ion batteries in those vehicles are of course lithium, nickel, graphite, and cobalt. Now, can you tell me what nation is the largest producer of refined lithium in the world?
HAALAND: No I can't.
HAWLEY: Can you tell me what nation is the largest producer of refined cobalt in the world?
HAALAND: No, Senator.
HAWLEY: It's China. Do you know what nation is the largest exporter of natural graphite to the United States, globally?
HAALAND: No, Senator.
HAWLEY: It's China. So in all of these instances, your decision to trade our energy security in favor of a radical climate change agenda is making us more and more dependent on China and at the same time, you are denying blocking mining, blocking permits for mining in this country that would allow us to develop nickel and copper and cobalt. Why? Why block the development of these resources in our nation in favor of making us dependent on China?
Specifically, China dominates a number of raw materials needed to manufacture batteries for electric vehicles such as graphite, lithium, and cobalt. By 2025, for instance, China is set to control about a third of all of the world's lithium.
Quote:
More than 70 cities in California alone have voted to ban natural gas hookups in new homes. New York became the first to impose a statewide ban. Sarah Fox, an associate law professor at Northern Illinois University School of Law, gleefully told CNN that this ban "is becoming a mainstream policy."
Soon it will be the auto industry's turn.
Just as natural gas producers before them, they are bear-hugging green groups and working arm-in-arm with government while promising to bring forth a magical electric car future.
GM says it will be all-electric by 2035. (In the first quarter of this year, EVs accounted for a grand total of 3.4% of GM sales.) Ford aims to have electric vehicles make up half of its sales by 2030. Toyota says it will be "carbon neutral" by 2050.
States are getting into the act, with California announcing a ban on the sale of gas-powered cars starting in 2035. Other states have followed suit. The Biden administration plans to impose emissions regulations so strict that they would force two-thirds of all cars sold to be electric by 2032.
Consumers don't want these cars, yet environmentalists are determined to force them into the market "for the greater good."
So our prediction is this: As soon as automakers have gone over the edge with EVs, and as soon as government mandates start to kick in, environmentalists will declare them "dirty, dangerous, and run amok."
We're already seeing the early stages of this bait-and-switch. This week, the Los Angeles Times blasted GM killing off its compact Bolt to make room for battery-powered EVs. The Times said that "Replacing the Chevy Bolt with electric SUVs would be a climate tragedy."
Wait. Climate tragedy? Really?
Turns out, only certain EVs are now acceptable to environmentalists.
"Electric vehicles are on the whole better for the planet than gas-powered vehicles, but bigger, heavier, and less efficient EV models have more environmental impacts than smaller ones," the Times editorial board sniffed.
It is now calling on regulators to not just force car buyers to give up their trusty internal combustion engines, but trade them in for "small, zero-emission cars that most people can afford to buy." It won't be long before green mobs start slashing tires of electric trucks and SUVs.
Quote:
At some point, no electric car will be good enough. Environmentalists will "discover" that building car batteries is massively damaging to the environment. They will be shocked to learn that EVs aren't "zero emission" at all, because the electricity used to charge them still largely comes from fossil-fuel-powered generators. They will decry the fact that EVs are making human-right-abusing despots fabulously rich. They will say EVs aren't doing nearly enough to stop the climate "crisis."
The only solution, they will say, is that we give up private ownership of cars, move to "15-minute" cities, cram into public transportation until they decide that these encumbrances aren't sufficient to fight "climate change."
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]
[/url]LOL. BEV's have a HUGE carbon footprint in their manufacture (and disposal), which is why they aren't even 'neutral' vs. a new ICE vehicle for 5 to 7 years.Excaliber said:
The EV revolution and rebuilding of the power grids that entails will cut down on the amount of petroleum products the country needs to buy from Texas entailing Texas to eventually introduce a Texas income tax.
So the Texas free ride will be over.
They also require, just so you know, huge amounts of energy just to produce those batteries, often in the form of huge Caterpillar earth movers etc. And bigger tires etc. because they are heavier (made from oil.)Quote:
A lithium EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds.(a) While there are dozens of variations, such a battery typically contains about 25 pounds of lithium, 30 pounds of cobalt, 60 pounds of nickel, 110 pounds of graphite, 90 pounds of copper,(b) about 400 pounds of steel, aluminum, and various plastic components.(c)
Looking upstream at the ore grades, one can estimate the typical quantity of rock that must be extracted from the earth and processed to yield the pure minerals needed to fabricate that single battery:
Lithium brines typically contain less than 0.1% lithium, so that entails some 25,000 pounds of brines to get the 25 pounds of pure lithium.(d)
Cobalt ore grades average about 0.1%, thus nearly 30,000 pounds of ore.(e)
Nickel ore grades average about 1%, thus about 6,000 pounds of ore.(f)
Graphite ore is typically 10%, thus about 1,000 pounds per battery.(g)
Copper at about 0.6% in the ore, thus about 25,000 pounds of ore per battery.(h)
In total then, acquiring just these five elements to produce the 1,000-pound EV battery requires mining about 90,000 pounds of ore. To properly account for all of the earth moved thoughwhich is relevant to the overall environmental footprint, and mining machinery energy useone needs to estimate the overburden, or the materials first dug up to get to the ore. Depending on ore type and location, overburden ranges from about 3 to 20 tons of earth removed to access each ton of ore.(i)
How much of the state's budget do you think comes from oil and gas taxes? LOL, again. You probably believe in 'renewable magic.'Quote:
To achieve the same driving range as 60 pounds of gasoline, an EV battery weighs about 1,000 pounds. Not much of that gap is closed by the lower weight of an electric versus gasoline motor because the former is typically only about 200 pounds lighter than the latter.
Manufacturers offset some of a battery's weight penalty by lightening the rest of the EV using more aluminum or carbon fiber instead of steel. Unfortunately, those materials are respectively 300% and 600% more energy intensive per pound to produce than steel. Using a half ton of aluminum, common in many EVs, adds six tons of CO2 to the non-battery embodied emissions (a factor most analyses ignore). But it's with all the other elements, the ones needed to fabricate the battery itself, where the emissions accounting gets messy.
If you and your Hubs have a hard time keeping anything charged up for your needs, then yeah an EV is not for you and you should never get an EV. It is worth it for you to pay more money on gasoline fuel for the convenience to quickly fuel up at public gas station rather than going through your own personal troubles and inconveniences trying to charge an EV at your own home.aggiehawg said:
The reason why is The Hubs has a hard time keeping the lake house golf cart charged, all of his tools charged.
We have multiple 200 amps drops on the ranch. But keeping that many things charged even on a trickle cell does not work forever. They die.
Until battery tech makes a HUGE advancement, EVs are futile.
Now, tell me why I am wrong.
That's per links above from a Telegraph article but editorialized by this blogger.Quote:
Some electric vehicles (EV) models are losing their value at twice the rate of the petrol equivalents, it was claimed.
EV prices have plummeted by 39 per cent between 2020 and 2023, while petrol car value fell 30 per cent in the same period, according to Choose My Car.
Drivers have been pushed towards EVs by government initiatives intended to help reach net zero by 2050.
But they risk losing thousands of pounds more than those who stick with petrol.
A driver who bought an electric BMW i3 in 2020 paid 39,000 but could only sell the car for 13,900 today, a depreciation of 64 per cent.
Full article, HERE from the Telegraph UK.
If you manage to 'brick' or completely discharge your battery, regardless of age, the possibility exists that it will have to be changed. How long does a Tesla battery last? Supposedly up to 200,000 miles in the US, from Motor Trend- HERE.
Now let's look at battery costs… Found this on a Tesla site- For the Model S premium sedan, replacing a Tesla battery costs around $13,000-$20,000. Model 3 entry-level sedan and Model X premium SUV battery replacement can cost at least $13,000 and $14,000 respectively.
And you have to add in up to $175/hr for labor… from 3 to 13 hours, depending on the car.
It may look like I'm picking on Tesla, but their information is the most available, and probably the most reliable…
When you add it the costs to charge it, both the modifications needed to 'most' home wiring, and now the charges being laid on public chargers and the time lost, I just cannot justify spending that much for one of them…
Teslag said:
EV Haters: "EVS ARE TOO EXPENSIVE FOR THE COMMON MAN"
Also RV Haters: "EVS ARE GETTING CHEAPER TOO FAST"
Teslag said:
Also RV Haters: "EVS ARE GETTING CHEAPER TOO FAST"
Quote:
The shop he sent his truck to "completely disassembled" the back of the truck, according to Apfelstadt, and discovered much more damage than previously thought based on exterior inspection alone so much more that the "final bill" for his fender bender came to more than $42,000. Apfelstadt told Just The News the "at-fault driver's insurance covered the entire repair bill" since her policy had a $50,000 cap.
On top of the huge repair tab and the battle he says he'll face with insurance over "diminished value," Apfelstadt said it took over 10 weeks for his truck to be repaired and returned to his possession.
Still, Apfelstadt told Just The News, he hasn't changed his stance on EVs. "I did not buy the Rivian for any political or environmental motive," he said in an email. "I simply liked the brand and loved the look of the truck."
He concluded by warning that potential purchasers "probably should not buy an EV or even a new ICE car" if they can't afford the repair costs.
Apfelstadt's experience illustrates a broader concern that electric vehicles despite being touted as wallet-friendly since they don't use gas could surprise owners with painful hidden costs.
Yup. There's a study out there showing EV buyers a few years back all went back to ICE for their next cars.bmks270 said:
Small ICE engines are still the most affordable and good for society by keeping costs low.
Todays small and midsize SUVs with a 4 cylinder engine is peak American value vs cost. Bringing high standard of quality and functionality to the masses at affordable prices.
For 35k families can get a small SUV with great fuel economy without the limitations and the e expenses of electric cars.
I might one day own an electric vehicle, but for now my ICE vehicle is the perfect mix of luxury, utility, and affordability.
And I know a few Tesla owners who are staying electric but will be going with a different manufacturer for their next car.
GeorgiAg said:
Just drove my buddy's Rivian truck. Awesome.
I want one now.
cecil77 said:
Where's the electricity gonaa come from?
Aggie Apotheosis said:GeorgiAg said:
Just drove my buddy's Rivian truck. Awesome.
I want one now.
As a dyed-in-the-wool ICE guy who built the motor to a 1968 Camaro that used to turn 11-second quarter miles at the Academy Dragway, I used to think that I'd never buy an EV. Then I drove a friend's Tesla. An amazing machine. We drove it from Brookeville, Maryland to Stowe, Vermont and back. Hands down a superior driving experience. He tells me that the latest iteration of the autopilot, which just downloaded to his car about a month or so ago, is vastly better than it was when made our trip, such that he trusts it to MOSTLY drive into DC and back. Once my current F-150 wears out, my next vehicle will be electric. It's been pretty much my experience that everybody who says they'll never buy an electric changes their mind after driving one.
