Just some of your greatest hits of being boldly wrong.

Are we talking about battery failure rates, or insurance rates? One is not necessarily a direct result of the other. The cost of repairs could just as easily be explained by more ubiquitous repair avenues for ICE vehicles rather than the monopolistic repair avenues available to EVs. That is, again, an infrastructure problem.

nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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Again, why is it surprising that high performance luxury segment cars are expensive to insure?

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Again, reading comprehension. Unsurprising.

Quote:

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Among mid-size luxury SUVs, the difference was even more pronounced: $8,037 versus $5,242 for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles

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I appreciate the humor though.

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Not all mid size luxury vehicles are the same. There was a big difference when I went from a regular BMW to an M series as far as insurance was concerned. The Tesla we have was about the same as our M series X5. Those are the comparisons which is why I clearly said "high performance" to which you conveniently ignored.

Teslag said:

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nortex97 said:

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Teslag said:

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Again, why is it surprising that high performance luxury segment cars are expensive to insure?

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Again, reading comprehension. Unsurprising.

Quote:

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Among mid-size luxury SUVs, the difference was even more pronounced: $8,037 versus $5,242 for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles

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I appreciate the humor though.

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Not all mid size luxury vehicles are the same. There was a big difference when I went from a regular BMW to an M series as far as insurance was concerned. The Tesla we have was about the same as our M series X5. Those are the comparisons which is why I clearly said "high performance" to which you conveniently ignored.

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It took you a while to resort back to your regular/tried-and-tested 'there really is no comparison/comparable to my Tesla' rationalization.

Unsurprised, and unpersuaded.

HPH you're gonna have to work harder at your trolling game if you want me to respond. I assumed you were just smashed last night.

There are plenty of comparisons. You just ignored them.

Teslag said:

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There are plenty of comparisons. You just ignored them.

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Fact check: false.

You just ignore all systematic/industry analyses. Anecdotes aren't comparisons that matter, they're rationalizations, best ignored/laughed at by folks with data/analytics.

No, you ignore key points of discussion. On multiple topics in response to mulitple posters. It's kinda your thing but we roll with it as best we can.

EV owner happiness with home charging drops. Weird, I thought things were supposed to be getting better and better as more and more own these.

Quote:

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When J.D. Power quantified EV owner satisfaction with the public charging experience at Level 2 and DC fast chargers, it found owners unhappy about "finding the charging infrastructure inadequate and plagued with non-functioning stations." So while there are more stations than ever, charging hurdles have made EV buyers less happy. It's a similar story with the latest study, the 2023 U.S. Electric Vehicle Experience (EVX) Home Charging Study. More homes have been fitted with Level 2 permanently mounted charging stations and more BEV and PHEV buyers own Level 2 portable stations. Despite the increased convenience, the study found owners less satisfied overall with the charging experience, the overall happiness with permanent home stations dropping from a score of 752 to 740 out of 1,000.

The study queries owners on eight facets of the home charging experience for BEVs and PHEVs using Level 1 (household plug) and fixed and portable Level 2 chargers: Fairness of the charger's retail price; cord length; size of charger; ease of winding/storing cable; cost of charging; charging speed; ease of use; and reliability.

Scores for overall satisfaction with Level 2 charging dropped in all nine national regions. Respondents cited cost as part of the problem, public utility kWh rates climbing with the prices of everything else. Another problem comes from charging speeds that apparently haven't fulfilled expectations.

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Oh well, I'm sure JD Power is just biased against EV owners, as insurance companies are.

So the proportion of drivers that drive a non-Tesla vehicle went up as the number of electric vehicles sold by non-Tesla manufacturers went up? I am stunned.

Now, look at the ratings of Tesla owners.


If you had asked me 4 years ago what the biggest threat to electric vehicles being adopted as a replacement for combustion vehicles was, I would have said Ford, GM, VW and Toyota manufacturing electric vehicles without building adequate charging infrastructure before Tesla achieved financial security. They're selling those vehicles now, but it doesn't matter so much as Tesla prints billions in profits every quarter. Tesla will just become the dominant electric vehicle manufacturer and electric charging manufacturer. Hence why I think their stock will go up from here while others focus on the fact that it's more valuable than the next X vehicle manufacturers combined.

Not just vehicle charging...their Megapack system with solar and wind is a good idea, though in my opinion, I don't think they are environmentally better, their impact just switches from one place in the ecosystem to a nother.

Recyclalability is still a huge problem and those windmills use REM just as bad as Tesla did prior to these new motors.

In addition their Software will be world class in FSD and AI.

Like I've said before Tesla is the next generation GE, and some day they'll issue dividends.

I think Tesla's stock will go up as well (and have for a long time, per the 'Tesla is doomed' thread).

Glad we agree on something.

For many electric vehicles, there is no way to repair or assess even slightly damaged battery packs after accidents, forcing insurance companies to write off cars with few miles - leading to higher premiums and undercutting gains from going electric https://t.co/CmlBYoUJ6U

— Reuters (@Reuters) March 20, 2023

Issues and Insight editorial: EV's are the 21st century Yugo.

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"At Synetiq, the UK's largest salvage company, head of operations Michael Hill said over the last 12 months the number of EVs in the isolation bay where they must be checked to avoid fire risk at the firm's Doncaster yard has soared, from perhaps a dozen every three days to up to 20 per day," Reuters reports.

Insuring an electric car is already 27% more expensive, on average, than a gasoline-powered one. If insurers keep totaling new EVs with minor damage, those rates will only go up.

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Quote:

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But our elites think they know better. And they want new cars to be 100% electric within a decade. So, carmakers feel like they have little choice but to plow ahead.

Which brings up another way that today's EVs are like the Yugos of yesteryear.

One auto critic said of the Yugo that it "had the distinct feeling of something assembled at gunpoint."

That was probably literally true in the case of the Yugo. But it is essentially the situation with EVs today. Consumers aren't banging on dealership doors demanding EVs. Ford reported last week that its e-car division is losing billions of dollars a year.

Car companies are pouring money into electric cars only because the government is holding a gun to their heads, saying build EVs or die.

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LOL.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/04/11/that-next-wave-of-evs-may-turn-out-to-be-a-trickle-n543050

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In the United States, we are reminded on a regular, often daily basis of the crucial need to give up our gas-guzzling vehicles and get an electric car or truck so we can save the planet or whatever. We hear it from everyone from the President to most of the cable news outlets. The day is coming sooner than you think! You need to be ready! We receive ominous warnings of bans on the sale of gas vehicles and penalties for those who fail to comply. So how is that working out so far? Are people rushing out to get their EV and their personal charging station? According to the latest polling from The Associated Press and NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, not so much. Only a little more than 15 percent of American households have either an electric or hybrid vehicle. And when it comes time to buy their next car, not many expect it to be an EV….

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nortex97 said:

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LOL.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2023/04/11/that-next-wave-of-evs-may-turn-out-to-be-a-trickle-n543050

Quote:

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In the United States, we are reminded on a regular, often daily basis of the crucial need to give up our gas-guzzling vehicles and get an electric car or truck so we can save the planet or whatever. We hear it from everyone from the President to most of the cable news outlets. The day is coming sooner than you think! You need to be ready! We receive ominous warnings of bans on the sale of gas vehicles and penalties for those who fail to comply. So how is that working out so far? Are people rushing out to get their EV and their personal charging station? According to the latest polling from The Associated Press and NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, not so much. Only a little more than 15 percent of American households have either an electric or hybrid vehicle. And when it comes time to buy their next car, not many expect it to be an EV….

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It's funny because some people buy an EV then switch back to gas.

https://electrek.co/2021/04/29/study-why-some-electric-car-owners-gas-reasons-surprising/

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The initial questionnaire surveys were conducted in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. These surveys recruited households in California who purchased a PEV between 2012 and 2018.

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Oops...

To clarify for ppl, the best selling EV, the Model Y didn't exist yet and the 3 was still being built in a tent.

Teslag said:

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Quote:

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The initial questionnaire surveys were conducted in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. These surveys recruited households in California who purchased a PEV between 2012 and 2018.

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Oops...

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The even funnier thing is, all those people who didn't buy an EV next time learned their lesson. Mostly you've got the true believers buying EVs now. The others from 2018? They're buying gas vehicles.

They're totaling teslas over fender benders????


Good lord what a pos vehicle

Ever drive over something on the highway when you couldn't swerve safely and hear a clunk under your vehicle, then scan your dash lights and happily keep rolling along? Good chance that damages/totals a BEV, if the battery case is so much as scratched.

Really makes you think.

Motorists are being milked dry - by *all* of the big political parties, who are addicted to taxing them to death through ULEZ, LTNs, costly electric cars

"The big political parties will bankrupt the nation in pursuit of clean energy". Bang-on from @HowardCCox pic.twitter.com/XNA8hmRim3

— Martin Daubney 🇬🇧 (@MartinDaubney) April 12, 2023

I think more and more are waking up to the insanity of the BEV push in places like the UK/Germany.

nortex97 said:

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Ever drive over something on the highway when you couldn't swerve safely and hear a clunk under your vehicle, then scan your dash lights and happily keep rolling along? Good chance that damages/totals a BEV, if the battery case is so much as scratched.

Really makes you think.

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It's all a scam…. Totalling bc of battery scratch is just another layer of the fraud

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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Quote:

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The initial questionnaire surveys were conducted in 2015, 2016, 2017, and 2018. These surveys recruited households in California who purchased a PEV between 2012 and 2018.

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Oops...

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The even funnier thing is, all those people who didn't buy an EV next time learned their lesson. Mostly you've got the true believers buying EVs now. The others from 2018? They're buying gas vehicles.

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Still doesnt get it

nortex97 said:

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Ever drive over something on the highway when you couldn't swerve safely and hear a clunk under your vehicle, then scan your dash lights and happily keep rolling along? Good chance that damages/totals a BEV, if the battery case is so much as scratched.

Really makes you think.

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i see nortex has defaulted to his make **** up bit

Some of these lightnings apparently electrocuted themselves before making it out of the production facility in Dearbornistan last month:

Quote:

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Dearborn police and fire personnel responded to the incident, which involved three electric vehicles and resulted in a five-week production shutdown. No one was injured. The automaker worked with battery supplier SK On to identify the cause and resolution before restarting production. In March, after consulting with its supplier, Ford recalled 18 of the 2023 F-150 Lightning pickups.

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Quote:

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Car battery fires burn hotter than other fires and require massive quantities of water or special chemicals to extinguish. In this case, one Ford pickup caught fire, and the flames spread to the other two.
The video includes audio that illustrates the gravity of the situation, as reported by CNBC:

• "We're not putting this (expletive) out. Look at it," said one responding officer.
• First responders can be heard on video expressing concern about how much water is needed to put out EV fires and whether a special foam would be required.
• "They have to put like a whole (expletive) lake on it to put them out," the same officer said during the event.

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EVs Fall Short of EPA Estimates by a Much Larger Margin Than Gas Cars in Our Real-World Highway Testing

No surprise. But this is pro-EV Car and Driver. Not good.

nortex97 said:

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Some of these lightnings apparently electrocuted themselves before making it out of the production facility in Dearbornistan last month:

Quote:

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Dearborn police and fire personnel responded to the incident, which involved three electric vehicles and resulted in a five-week production shutdown. No one was injured. The automaker worked with battery supplier SK On to identify the cause and resolution before restarting production. In March, after consulting with its supplier, Ford recalled 18 of the 2023 F-150 Lightning pickups.

---

Quote:

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Car battery fires burn hotter than other fires and require massive quantities of water or special chemicals to extinguish. In this case, one Ford pickup caught fire, and the flames spread to the other two.
The video includes audio that illustrates the gravity of the situation, as reported by CNBC:

• "We're not putting this (expletive) out. Look at it," said one responding officer.
• First responders can be heard on video expressing concern about how much water is needed to put out EV fires and whether a special foam would be required.
• "They have to put like a whole (expletive) lake on it to put them out," the same officer said during the event.

---

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So, the TAXPAYER that wants nothing to do with these glorified golf carts will still have to pay for special fire department equipment and training just to be prepared to fight the EV fires when they happen. And, don't forget about the special toxic spillage cleanup and potential for transferable chemical burns requiring special PPE and handling procedures. Again added cost to the taxpayer who does not want an EV.

Shouldn't we add in a fee/tax to all EV purchaser/owners to pay for this instead of those who don't want EVs?

Looks like it to me. Why should I have to fund this crap?

nortex97 said:

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Some of these lightnings apparently electrocuted themselves before making it out of the production facility in Dearbornistan last month:

Quote:

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Dearborn police and fire personnel responded to the incident, which involved three electric vehicles and resulted in a five-week production shutdown. No one was injured. The automaker worked with battery supplier SK On to identify the cause and resolution before restarting production. In March, after consulting with its supplier, Ford recalled 18 of the 2023 F-150 Lightning pickups.

---

Quote:

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Car battery fires burn hotter than other fires and require massive quantities of water or special chemicals to extinguish. In this case, one Ford pickup caught fire, and the flames spread to the other two.
The video includes audio that illustrates the gravity of the situation, as reported by CNBC:

• "We're not putting this (expletive) out. Look at it," said one responding officer.
• First responders can be heard on video expressing concern about how much water is needed to put out EV fires and whether a special foam would be required.
• "They have to put like a whole (expletive) lake on it to put them out," the same officer said during the event.

---

---

I am certain they set up a perimeter basin around the fire to capture all of the water runoff from extinguishing the fires. I would hate for that to just go down the drain and into the nearest stream with all those new chemicals they put in batteries.

To think of all those pollutants getting into the water not to mention the emissions from a hot hot fire that burns for hours on end. I assume the fire departments have a way to recapture and filter those as well.

EVs are the cleanest because of all these precautions each fire department and really each fire truck that have been put in place for these fires.

Quote:

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My $120k BMW iX M60 EV SUV with 600 hp and 750 ft/lb of torque I paid cash for is not a car for poor students but it only costs me 600.00 a year to charge for 20,000 miles equivalent to 130 miles per gallon and my insurance with full coverage is 860.00.
0-60 in 3.2 seconds 1/4 mile 11.5.
The build quality is awesome.
Since I don't travel and charge it at home at 8 cents a kw/hr here where electricity is cheap and generated by Niagara Falls Hydro Electric I'm pretty pleased with it.

[url=https://postimg.cc/62PbRDG8][/url]

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Those "special foams" likely contain PFAS (forever chemicals), which the EPA has designated as a hazardous substance. Manufacturers are running away from those flourinated compounds like crazy.

fka ftc said:

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nortex97 said:

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Some of these lightnings apparently electrocuted themselves before making it out of the production facility in Dearbornistan last month:

Quote:

---

Dearborn police and fire personnel responded to the incident, which involved three electric vehicles and resulted in a five-week production shutdown. No one was injured. The automaker worked with battery supplier SK On to identify the cause and resolution before restarting production. In March, after consulting with its supplier, Ford recalled 18 of the 2023 F-150 Lightning pickups.

---

Quote:

---

Car battery fires burn hotter than other fires and require massive quantities of water or special chemicals to extinguish. In this case, one Ford pickup caught fire, and the flames spread to the other two.
The video includes audio that illustrates the gravity of the situation, as reported by CNBC:

• "We're not putting this (expletive) out. Look at it," said one responding officer.
• First responders can be heard on video expressing concern about how much water is needed to put out EV fires and whether a special foam would be required.
• "They have to put like a whole (expletive) lake on it to put them out," the same officer said during the event.

---

---

I am certain they set up a perimeter basin around the fire to capture all of the water runoff from extinguishing the fires. I would hate for that to just go down the drain and into the nearest stream with all those new chemicals they put in batteries.

To think of all those pollutants getting into the water not to mention the emissions from a hot hot fire that burns for hours on end. I assume the fire departments have a way to recapture and filter those as well.

EVs are the cleanest because of all these precautions each fire department and really each fire truck that have been put in place for these fires.

---

No, there are plenty of smaller towns and rural communities that do not have these capabilities.

ICE powered vehicles are cleaner, and there is a much higher percentage of communities I've mentioned with the absorbents required for oil, gas and diesel.

EVs are environmental time bombs. They WILL wreak havoc on the environment at some point from manufacture to disposal. Just a matter of when. ICE powered, not so much, and if so, an insignificant amount to batteries.

Old Sarge said:

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fka ftc said:

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[sarcasm]
I am certain they set up a perimeter basin around the fire to capture all of the water runoff from extinguishing the fires. I would hate for that to just go down the drain and into the nearest stream with all those new chemicals they put in batteries.

To think of all those pollutants getting into the water not to mention the emissions from a hot hot fire that burns for hours on end. I assume the fire departments have a way to recapture and filter those as well.

EVs are the cleanest because of all these precautions each fire department and really each fire truck that have been put in place for these fires.

[/sarcasm/

---

No, there are plenty of smaller towns and rural communities that do not have these capabilities.

ICE powered vehicles are cleaner, and there is a much higher percentage of communities I've mentioned with the absorbents required for oil, gas and diesel.

EVs are environmental time bombs. They WILL wreak havoc on the environment at some point from manufacture to disposal. Just a matter of when. ICE powered, not so much, and if so, an insignificant amount to batteries.

---

Please do not make me actually right sarcasm each time.

Completely agree, they are not the environmental panacea folks want them to be.

Horses for courses.

Old Sarge said:

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fka ftc said:

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nortex97 said:

---

Some of these lightnings apparently electrocuted themselves before making it out of the production facility in Dearbornistan last month:

Quote:

---

Dearborn police and fire personnel responded to the incident, which involved three electric vehicles and resulted in a five-week production shutdown. No one was injured. The automaker worked with battery supplier SK On to identify the cause and resolution before restarting production. In March, after consulting with its supplier, Ford recalled 18 of the 2023 F-150 Lightning pickups.

---

Quote:

---

Car battery fires burn hotter than other fires and require massive quantities of water or special chemicals to extinguish. In this case, one Ford pickup caught fire, and the flames spread to the other two.
The video includes audio that illustrates the gravity of the situation, as reported by CNBC:

• "We're not putting this (expletive) out. Look at it," said one responding officer.
• First responders can be heard on video expressing concern about how much water is needed to put out EV fires and whether a special foam would be required.
• "They have to put like a whole (expletive) lake on it to put them out," the same officer said during the event.

---

---

I am certain they set up a perimeter basin around the fire to capture all of the water runoff from extinguishing the fires. I would hate for that to just go down the drain and into the nearest stream with all those new chemicals they put in batteries.

To think of all those pollutants getting into the water not to mention the emissions from a hot hot fire that burns for hours on end. I assume the fire departments have a way to recapture and filter those as well.

EVs are the cleanest because of all these precautions each fire department and really each fire truck that have been put in place for these fires.

---

No, there are plenty of smaller towns and rural communities that do not have these capabilities.

ICE powered vehicles are cleaner, and there is a much higher percentage of communities I've mentioned with the absorbents required for oil, gas and diesel.

EVs are environmental time bombs. They WILL wreak havoc on the environment at some point from manufacture to disposal. Just a matter of when. ICE powered, not so much, and if so, an insignificant amount to batteries.

---

Yup. ICE vehicles can be recycled indefinitely. Those $20k 2 ton EV batteries? Not so much.

I won't apologize for it, but will note the handle for reference next time.

The flawed logic that most have when it comes to these things makes it hard to distinguish between sarcasm like yours and people that push on swing out doors trying to get in someplace.

No need to apologize, I hear you loud and clear on trying to distinguish sarcasm these days. Used to be a simple task.

Have a good one Sarge.

100 gWh annual recycling and manufacturing plant being constructed in South Carolina scheduled to go into operation by the end of next year. They say they can recoup 95% of all battery materials from spent batteries. They already have a 6+ gWh pilot line operating in Nevada.

For all the praise that Elon gets, the founder of this company, JB Straubel, is the brains behind the battery pack in the Tesla vehicles. He is the former CTO of Tesla and is a lock to return to Tesla as a member of the board. He knows more than you about batteries, undoubtedly.

https://www.redwoodmaterials.com/news/announcing-redwood-south-carolina/