Loren Visser said:

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no dog in this fight but a 3 second search showed me this..



TYPES OF HOME EV CHARGERS
Not all EV chargers are made equal, and not all will get you a full tank of juice (so to speak) in time for the morning commute.

• Level 1 charging can typically bring an EV battery to 80% in about 40 to 50 hours. These chargers often come included with an EV purchase, and require only a common household 120-volt outlet to work.
• Level 2 charging setups require having a 240-volt circuit. They can charge a battery electric vehicle to 80% in four to 10 hours and a plug-in hybrid in one to two hours.
• Level 3 also called direct current fast charging chargers are usually found in public charging stations, such as Tesla's Supercharger locations, and are used often in commercial applications.

Charging stations and cables also come in a variety of standards, depending on plug type. Because these plugs are not interchangeable, it can be important to make sure your home charger has the correct one.

COSTS OF HOME CHARGING STATIONS
Within each level of charging, there's generally a range of prices for home equipment. There can also be differences in installation costs.

• Level 1 charging cables often come with new EVs, but they can also be purchased separately if you want a spare. The equipment for Level 1 chargers typically costs about $300 to about $600. You should also look into the labor costs for installation, which can cost $1,000 or more.
• Level 2 charging stations usually need to be purchased separately, though some automakers might provide rebates for purchase and installation. Level 2 charging equipment ordinarily runs about $500 to $700, although some of it can be more expensive.
• Level 3 chargers can cost tens of thousands of dollars for the equipment alone. Installed, Level 3 chargers generally cost about $12,000 to $45,000.

LESS OBVIOUS COSTS OF HOME CHARGING STATIONS
While many modern homes can support Level 1 charging without much in the way of renovation, not every EV owner is so lucky. Older homes may not have updated electrical setups that will work with a Level 1 charger. Some hidden costs of installing at-home EV chargers might include:

• Updating your house's electrical capabilities for a Level 1 charger. Although Level 1 chargers will work with standard 120-volt household plugs, some older homes could be wired for 15-amp or lower circuits. Additionally, if the plug is too far from the distribution box, it may lose too much current and need to be updated with higher-gauge wiring.
• Upgrading your home's electrical system for a Level 2 charger. Many homes, even new ones, could need electrical work for Level 2 chargers, as those hookups require 240-volt circuits. Such circuits are not common in homes unless they were specifically installed for large appliances.

The price of installing new circuits into your home will depend on a few factors. These include the state of your breaker box/electrical panel, which can cost anywhere from about $850 to $4,000 to upgrade, depending on how many amps you need. Other factors include the availability of circuits at a high enough amperage, which can cost about $600 to $1,200 to install, and the distance between the electrical panel and the charging station.
If you need to install a commercial-grade Level 3 EV charger, it could set you back tens of thousands of dollars. It likely also will require significant infrastructure setup, the cost for which varies based on your location and property.

https://www.capitalone.com/cars/learn/managing-your-money-wisely/how-much-does-a-home-ev-charger-really-cost/2737

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It cost me $350 to put in a 240 circuit in my garage for charging.

That's about what I paid. The main variable is distance from the breaker box and how easy it is to run wire from its location to the garage. Mine was in the same garage so easy enough.

That's about the going rate. It's a simple circuit. I installed mine myself per code. Total cost of materials was about $75

I had a good laugh today. As I was pulling into the parking lot at Jimmy Johns. Tesla owner was standing outside his car yelling into his phone. Dude was upset, because apparently his car died and he needed a tow to the nearest charging station. I committed walking back out with my sandwich, if only you were driving a gas car, I could help you. Thought the dude was going to throw something at me.

Psycho Bunny said:

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I had a good laugh today. As I was pulling into the parking lot at Jimmy Johns. Tesla owner was standing outside his car yelling into his phone. Dude was upset, because apparently his car died and he needed a tow to the nearest charging station. I committed walking back out with my sandwich, if only you were driving a gas car, I could help you. Thought the dude was going to throw something at me.

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Not to channel a certain poster, but different from running out of gas how?

Considering there are about 5 gas stations at the Jimmy Johns I was at. The nearest charging station 5 miles away.

You did not offer to take him home to pick up the Honda generator to add a couple kW?

You have to be a complete moron to run a Tesla out of charge.

Psycho Bunny said:

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I had a good laugh today. As I was pulling into the parking lot at Jimmy Johns. Tesla owner was standing outside his car yelling into his phone. Dude was upset, because apparently his car died and he needed a tow to the nearest charging station. I committed walking back out with my sandwich, if only you were driving a gas car, I could help you. Thought the dude was going to throw something at me.

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An oldie but a goodie:

Teslag said:

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You have to be a complete moron to run a Tesla out of charge.

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Or a liberal.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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You have to be a complete moron to run a Tesla out of charge.

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Or a liberal.

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Even a liberal can understand when a vehicle is telling you how much charge you have left and where to get more.

Teslag said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Teslag said:

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You have to be a complete moron to run a Tesla out of charge.

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Or a liberal.

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Even a liberal can understand when a vehicle is telling you how much charge you have left and where to get more.

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that is a low bar to cross

To be fair, there's always a little margin built into a gas car. E doesn't mean you're completely empty. Assume that's not the case for EVs.

Teslag said:

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You have to be a complete moron to buy a Tesla.

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FIFY

Philip J Fry said:

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To be fair, there's always a little margin built into a gas car. E doesn't mean you're completely empty. Assume that's not the case for EVs.

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You're correct. E in electric means your doors wont open.

Does it though?

MaxPower said:

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Does it though?

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Username checks out.

There is typically capacity left at 0% SoC for dumbasses who can't plan ahead and need every last little bit to make it to a charger

Sales keep dropping? Let's slash prices again.

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/21/1246256484/tesla-car-price-cuts-elon-musk-cybertruck

Reading NPR to get EV news? Like Disturbing Behavior and The Faculty, this is how you get sucked into the other side

Don't be so narrow minded. It's just a news feed. Multiple sources.

Here you go:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-cuts-prices-across-line-024312843.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2024/04/22/tesla-shares-slide-further-after-price-cuts-in-major-markets-over-the-weekend/

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-slashes-prices-suv-cars-self-driving-software-before-earnings-2024-4

A few more

https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-slashes-ev-full-self-driving-prices/

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1d4g8jz57yo

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-22/tesla-s-price-cuts-trigger-new-round-in-china-ev-price-war

They removed inventory discounts, which increased the minimum price the vehicle could sell for by $5000 and then a week later reduced the retail price by $2000. It's going to result in a negligible difference in ASP.

Of course you'd argue it was bad for them when the inventory discounts disappeared and when the prices dropped, because like a flat earther all news is validating news for you.

NEWS: Consumer Reports has named @Tesla the cheapest car brand to maintain over a 10 year period:

1: Tesla: $4,035
2: Buick: $4,900
3: Toyota: $4,900
4: Lincoln: $5,040
5: Ford: $5,400
6: Chevrolet: $5,550
7: Hyundai: $5,640
8: Nissan: $5,700
9: Mazda: $5,800
10: Honda: $5,850… pic.twitter.com/DcRYM2m0sZ

— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) April 22, 2024

This assumes the battery lasts the 10 year period, and as well probably underestimates tire replacement costs. It also ignores the insurance premium that comes with insuring a Tesla/BEV.

Even with that said, it's impressive, imho.

Philip J Fry said:

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To be fair, there's always a little margin built into a gas car. E doesn't mean you're completely empty. Assume that's not the case for EVs.

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Same for EV's. There's a reserve. There is never an excuse to run out of charge in a Tesla.

I already get aggregated articles from the Apple stock ticker, but thanks for the extras. You missed one from Seeking Alpha where Exxon-Mobil's market cap went ahead of Tesla's.

Teslag said:

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You have to be a complete moron to run a Tesla out of charge.

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Welcome to America???

You have to be a complete moron to run an ICE car out of gas, too...

hph6203 said:

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They removed inventory discounts, which increased the minimum price the vehicle could sell for by $5000 and then a week later reduced the retail price by $2000. It's going to result in a negligible difference in ASP.

Of course you'd argue it was bad for them when the inventory discounts disappeared and when the prices dropped, because like a flat earther all news is validating news for you.

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The pretzels you guys tie yourselves in. We get it, you're fans of the stock. But it's a teensy disingenuous to spin EVERY slice of bad news like it's no big deal.

Does anyone have the lifetime maintenance cost chart including Tesla's? I would think in year 10-15 you have to replace batteries and that is what? $20K?

Call me old fashion, but I buy cars for 10 years minimum if not lifetime. I run them until the yearly maintenance costs start to soar like new engines, etc. and then sell them for $5K cash or whatever.

And NFS on this analysis. Tesla's have hundreds less moving parts. I would expect it to be in the lead. Honestly, the maintenance costs should be lower because other than electrical, tires, and ??? what else do you have to maintain?

It's not a pretzel, it's a total view. You have an expected outcome of information regardless of what it is and then use a piece of data to justify it. Prices go up, you say it's because their costs are rising (with no evidence). Prices go down, you say it's because there is no demand. That's pretzel logic.

The entire auto industry is slowing down, you just don't recognize it because the OEM's are reporting growth in sales (well, some of them, some are reporting significant reductions like BMW down 17%), but those sales are into their dealer networks and the dealer lots are filling up. Next comes discounting and back end reductions to the dealer so they don't reflect reductions in MSRP. Same as what Tesla is doing, just with a layer of obfuscation.

Automakers are playing a risky game.

New car inventories hit a peak this January — the highest level since June 2020.

February started with an 80-day supply of new vehicles, matching January but up 40% from the same time last year.

This is good news for consumers:

The average…

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) April 18, 2024

(Cox Auto does not include Tesla figures in its data set)

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) April 19, 2024

Tesla runs lean and would be under 25 days if Cox reported it. They do dynamic pricing on all vehicles rather than having dealerships that try to selectively hustle buyers that don't negotiate. That doesn't mean that demand hasn't slowed, it means that Tesla is generally a leading indicator of slowing demand because they don't dump cars into dealership lots until they're full.

The price points that Tesla primarily competes in are the hardest hit in terms of inventory levels

Quote:

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Vehicles under $40,000 continue to have the tightest supply. At a price point over $80,000, the market hits the industry average at 75 days' supply, and midrange-priced vehicles are all above the industry average as measured by days' supply.

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Battery replacement for Model Y Long Range quoted at 12,881 18 days ago.



Battery prices have been falling forever, so the price today is likely to be significantly more than what a person would pay in 15 years especially with the increase in energy density of LFP batteries. Estimates are that average battery prices will fall by a further ~43% by the end of the decade based upon surveys of miners/manufacturers. Those are average new prices, so putting a refurbished or LFP battery would be lower than the average.

Quote:

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Technological innovation and manufacturing improvement should drive further declines in battery pack prices in the coming years, to $113/kWh in 2025 and $80/kWh in 2030.

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That said people are achieving mileage far in excess of 200,000 miles without replacing the drive motors or batteries and battery durability is getting better, not worse.



Tesla's fleet data for battery degradation on Model S and X vehicles. Newer batteries are supposed to be more durable due to better thermal management/manufacturing practices, but that will have to be proved out. The egregious battery replacement costs are from low volume producers and for Tesla's using older battery technology/much bigger batteries that's in lower volume production.

I cannot name the city but a liberal city is about to put out bids for fast charging stations since they realized their grid cannot handle the charging requirements. The only way to put the power out is by using a diesel engine

I bought the 1st yr version of the Model Y and at 75K miles, had 90% battery. At 25K, it was around 92%. Very little drop after about 25Kmiles.

Have a 2023 version and at 25K, still has 100%. Battery degradation and management has improved greatly. Only time will tell but in 3-5 yrs, you will see Tesla's built after 2022 to have 90%+ charge after 200K miles.

The mantra of, "needing a new battery after 100-150K miles" has no basis in fact.

Regardless, after 10 yrs and 150K miles, you would have saved 5K in maintenance compared to a BMW. Even this 5K is the very low end as I have had 2 BMWs and it was way higher. So even with 5K, after 150K miles you will have saved 10K on gas vs mostly home charging.

With 15K, you can get a new battery with money left in your pocket. I bet in 3-5 yrs, the cost of a new battery pack would be similar to a new engine. Did I tell you BMW wanted to charge me 10+K for a new engine at 90K miles; this was 7 years ago.

Financially, it is a no brainer. Battery costs continues to go down. Cost to make an EV will continue to go down. EVs are just easier to make with less parts and we are just seeing the beginning of EVs being cheaper than ICE. ICE will start to phase out and become niche in 10 years. Economics will make sure this is the case.

I am sure most on here thinks I am full of it and give 10 different reasons why, but we are in the early years of EVs and they are already at cost parity if not cheaper than an equivalent car. A Model Y is cheaper than a similar BMW X5 which I consider in the same market.

People like to ignore facts and just hang onto the mantra that "Tesla Bad, Elon Bad"