I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.

519,355 Views | 7787 Replies | Last: 12 days ago by techno-ag
Ag with kids
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AG
nortex97
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Yeah you'd think if Tesla's are bullet proof and impregnable to vandalism etc. the insurance costs would be the lowest on the market. But wait…
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Yeah you'd think if Tesla's are bullet proof and impregnable to vandalism etc. the insurance costs would be the lowest on the market. But wait…

Their insurance is in line with vehicles of their cost/class and perforamance.
Kansas Kid
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So do you want us to start posting all vehicles stolen and vandalized to show it isn't just Teslas or do you accept that as fact?
hph6203
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techno-ag said:

New Roadster supposedly will go 0-60 in a second or less.

If true (and it's prolly just hype), these things will be a serious danger on the road.

https://www.motor1.com/news/710402/elon-musk-talks-new-tesla-roadster/amp/

Initial design was to place cold gas thrusters to boost acceleration. It's not an every day drive 0-60 in <1.0s and they're going to be rarer than any Ferrari or Lamborghini. Retail price is probably going to be >$300,000 for that spec.
techno-ag
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Cybertruck owner shoots his vehicle because it's bulletproof.

https://insideevs.com/news/710301/tesla-cybertruck-shot-gun-bullets-real-world/amp/


Cue the EVangelists to tell us this is normal behavior and every truck brand has owners shooting them.
Trump will fix it.
hph6203
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It's normal behavior for a very dumb twitch streamer that gets paid more to shoot that truck than he spent buying it.
Bubblez
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oh no
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nortex97 said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

I still see the politics, human, and environmental impact of these vehicles as horrible, outside of the driving experience/cost/risk of mfg bankruptcy etc.

Virtue signaling with a vehicle purchase...
I didn't buy one…and never will. I do again look with some disdain at EV owners/drivers, and by default assume they are Biden/GCF/Obama voters, or apathetic/ignorant of the politics behind the machines they operate. Not all are, it's just a default position, again, though I realize conditional statements like that are difficult for some to process.

There are several reasons this thread has gone on so long on the politics forum, and it's not just the "EVangelists" passionate hatred for the disdain many conservatives have toward these things, and the growing market rejection of them.
I'm about as hard core of an anti-communist / anti-socialist, and therefore by default the opposite of a democrat, as you'll find. I'm against big government, as more government is never the answer. I'm libertarian-leaning in many respects. Taxation is theft. An uncompetitive regulatory and tax environment discourages investment and thus growth and opportunities here. As only the corrupt power hungry government is growing, socialism is creeping.

I'm against a federal energy policy that disincentivizes using our most valuable natural resources to keep our advantages and pushes us to depend on foreign sources. I grew up in the O&G industry and worked in it for most of my professional career and I know the world's dependence on diesel and hydrocarbons for everything -from farming and harvesting, to mining and extracting minerals and feedstocks, to transporting everything, to processing and manufacturing and packaging everything, to transporting it again. It isn't going away.

I'm sick of the woke mob, the lazy free-handout welfare state that disincentivizes people to earn and be productive, communist ideology removing god/religion and family from our society, and identity politics as a Marxist tactic for population division to make us easier to control. I'm highly skeptical of the deep state and the power of our unelected permanent government bureaucrats.

I'm not blind to the laundering / scamming circular references of big socialist government spending like the "green new deal".

I'm not ignorant to the fact that a large global % of known rare earth mineral reserves are owned by china or that many materials, parts, and supplies are currently dominated by china and dependent on the supply chain with china when it comes to wind and solar generation as well as lithium ion storage.

I'm very much against climate alarmism and the communist tactics being used to indoctrinate our youth because government regulation and government spending isn't going to change earth's climate until we're putting shields in orbit to block the sun which I'm also against as it will never be necessary for human survival.

I'm a constitutional originalist. My Rivian will transport at times and conceal all the time a right that shall not be infringed.

Lastly, I'm a capitalist. If I have money and want to spend it on an expensive golf cart that goes 0-60 in 3.0 seconds yet can also be put in rock crawl mode and drift mode and drive it to work every day for a while, I will do it.
nortex97
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All good. Not blasting you, just keeping on, my friend. The evangelists drive me a bit to the other side.

Just don't vote democrat! I make an exception for some, to my stereotype views. Glad you thought about it. Enjoy the ride.
techno-ag
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oh no said:

nortex97 said:

Teslag said:


Quote:

I still see the politics, human, and environmental impact of these vehicles as horrible, outside of the driving experience/cost/risk of mfg bankruptcy etc.

Virtue signaling with a vehicle purchase...
I didn't buy one…and never will. I do again look with some disdain at EV owners/drivers, and by default assume they are Biden/GCF/Obama voters, or apathetic/ignorant of the politics behind the machines they operate. Not all are, it's just a default position, again, though I realize conditional statements like that are difficult for some to process.

There are several reasons this thread has gone on so long on the politics forum, and it's not just the "EVangelists" passionate hatred for the disdain many conservatives have toward these things, and the growing market rejection of them.
I'm about as hard core of an anti-communist / anti-socialist, and therefore by default the opposite of a democrat, as you'll find. I'm against big government, as more government is never the answer. I'm libertarian-leaning in many respects. Taxation is theft. An uncompetitive regulatory and tax environment discourages investment and thus growth and opportunities here. As only the corrupt power hungry government is growing, socialism is creeping.

I'm against a federal energy policy that disincentivizes using our most valuable natural resources to keep our advantages and pushes us to depend on foreign sources. I grew up in the O&G industry and worked in it for most of my professional career and I know the world's dependence on diesel and hydrocarbons for everything -from farming and harvesting, to mining and extracting minerals and feedstocks, to transporting everything, to processing and manufacturing and packaging everything, to transporting it again. It isn't going away.

I'm sick of the woke mob, the lazy free-handout welfare state that disincentivizes people to earn and be productive, communist ideology removing god/religion and family from our society, and identity politics as a Marxist tactic for population division to make us easier to control. I'm highly skeptical of the deep state and the power of our unelected permanent government bureaucrats.

I'm not blind to the laundering / scamming circular references of big socialist government spending like the "green new deal".

I'm not ignorant to the fact that a large global % of known rare earth mineral reserves are owned by china or that many materials, parts, and supplies are currently dominated by china and dependent on the supply chain with china when it comes to wind and solar generation as well as lithium ion storage.

I'm very much against climate alarmism and the communist tactics being used to indoctrinate our youth because government regulation and government spending isn't going to change earth's climate until we're putting shields in orbit to block the sun which I'm also against as it will never be necessary for human survival.

I'm a constitutional originalist. My Rivian will transport at times and conceal all the time a right that shall not be infringed.

Lastly, I'm a capitalist. If I have money and want to spend it on an expensive golf cart that goes 0-60 in 3.0 seconds yet can also be put in rock crawl mode and drift mode and drive it to work every day for a while, I will do it.
Right on, right on! You'll fit in well here.
Trump will fix it.
Ag with kids
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Kansas Kid
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Clearly false news. Charging at home takes more than an hour.
hph6203
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Your Rivian is about to get a whole lot better without you having to do really anything. Ford added today. Rivian within 3-4 months.

hph6203
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Looks like some time in March for Rivian's access to Tesla superchargers. Wouldn't be surprised to see the announcement coincide with Rivian's next-gen vehicle announcement.



~10% increase in range for Tesla's standard range vehicles by adopting LMFP batteries rather than LFP, would push base model range to >300 miles.

techno-ag
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The Prius is STILL greener than any EV.

https://jalopnik.com/new-evs-still-can-t-beat-the-efficiency-of-a-plug-in-hy-1851294507

Quote:

The Toyota Prius Prime has beat out the latest EVs for the title of greenest car. Despite more EVs coming to market, none of the latest fully-electric vehicles in the U.S. managed to outdo the efficiency of the humble Prius plug-in, according to the Washing Post and recent findings in the 2024 GreenerCars report.


Trump will fix it.
Kansas Kid
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techno-ag said:

The Prius is STILL greener than any EV.

https://jalopnik.com/new-evs-still-can-t-beat-the-efficiency-of-a-plug-in-hy-1851294507

Quote:

The Toyota Prius Prime has beat out the latest EVs for the title of greenest car. Despite more EVs coming to market, none of the latest fully-electric vehicles in the U.S. managed to outdo the efficiency of the humble Prius plug-in, according to the Washing Post and recent findings in the 2024 GreenerCars report.



I'm glad you keep looking out for the planet. You are certainly a card carrying member of Greenpeace and they should be proud to have you.
tk for tu juan
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Prius Prime is an EV
tk for tu juan
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300 miles (10% to 80%) in 10 minutes, assuming they didn't fake the charging session

hph6203
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Technically a plug-in hybrid with a piddly 13.6 kWh battery that's going to be cycled ~6x more frequently than a full EV vehicle, meaning that the failure frequency just based upon charge cycles is going to be 6x more frequent. Add to that the thermal management at idle is likely inferior to a pure EV thermal management system and you're talking about even more stress on the battery than an EV battery experiences. From a battery failure rate standpoint, it falls in line with his criticisms in even more stark terms, and it also operates as a pure EV when running off battery so it fulfills his supposed claim that EVs are golf carts, and even more so as it gets 0-60 in about 6.6 seconds and yet he claims it's a superior product.

Devastating.
techno-ag
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Tesla rolls out more discounts for the Chi-coms. Stock falls more.

https://www.barrons.com/amp/articles/tesla-stock-price-today-34257267
Trump will fix it.
hph6203
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Fun fact, since you're so big on facts, the share price was up for the day by the time you posted this.

Another fun fact, Tesla's share price is not a great way to analyze the viability of EVs as a technology.
tk for tu juan
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Past month, horrible




nortex97
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tk for tu juan said:

300 miles (10% to 80%) in 10 minutes, assuming they didn't fake the charging session


This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often, and then that will lead to much more rapid battery degradation. There's been an issue where for instance Tesla owners could mask a battery problem already when selling the vehicle.

How many BEV' manufacturers will facilitate easily determining how many times a 'super fast' charge has been placed on the battery? Zero, likely. 2nd hand buyers will have to just 'trust' the non-standardized 'battery health' software and status when they look.
tk for tu juan
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It is a Chinese built mini-van, you want long term durability? Ha
hph6203
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tk for tu juan said:

It is a Chinese built mini-van, you want long term durability? Ha

The walk around.



The other end of the spectrum.

techno-ag
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Tesla might be falling out of the Magnificent 7.

Quote:

In any event, Tesla was anointed a member of the new and exclusive Magnificent Seven Club during 2023. Rumor has it that the Tesla faithful may be fading some of their enthusiasm and thinking the stock may be ditched for up-and-coming Broadcom or the Mag Seven may be shrinking to the Sweet Six, or the Studly Six or some such thing.


https://seekingalpha.com/article/4675469-tesla-stock-mag-seven-may-be-shrinking

It was another bad week for EVs

Quote:

Fisker said this week it's preparing for "another difficult year" and Tesla adjusted its pricing strategy in China to boost demand, in the latest of what's been a tough stretch for many electric vehicle makers.

Apple reportedly canceled its plans to make an EV earlier in the week.

The U.S. government opened an investigation into potential risks associated with connected vehicles made with Chinese tech and is considering new regulations.

The developments come after Rivian and Lucid reported results that missed estimates.
https://www.investopedia.com/fisker-warning-tesla-price-incentives-in-china-latest-in-tough-stretch-for-many-ev-makers-8602173
Trump will fix it.
Teslag
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Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
tk for tu juan
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OK, now we are in trouble; that is nicer than expected (at least the interior was). Do you think they put a large top buffer to allow the charge rate to stay high until "80%" SOC, or did they increase the cobalt content?

Edit: Seeing that it is a 4680 cell battery pack, really brings up the question on the Cybertruck battery pack and charging curve. Even on a 400V charger, it should be able to hold 250kW for longer than it does
nortex97
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Teslag said:

Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
I continue to question your reasoning capabilities.
Kansas Kid
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nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
I continue to question your reasoning capabilities.

If you do the research, you will see that supercharging has been shown not to effect battery life so it is a moot point. I will put it to you differently, in your eyes, how fast can you charge and not affect battery life?
https://www.batterytechonline.com/charging/report-supercharging-doesn-t-degrade-tesla-battery-life#
Teslag
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nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
I continue to question your reasoning capabilities.


Because you don't understand what it's like to own one of these for the typical owner
nortex97
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Teslag said:

nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
I continue to question your reasoning capabilities.


Because you don't understand what it's like to own one of these for the typical owner
This is again supportive of my point.
Teslag
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We are typical EV owners. We rarely take it on road trips and use it mainly for commuting. You can see how often we use a supercharger.





Non issue
Teslag
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Kansas Kid said:

nortex97 said:

Teslag said:

Quote:

This isn't actually a 'great thing' for EV's as it will just lead to the (1st) owners charging them as fast as possible more often,


Superchargers aren't used all that often for most owners so it's actually not an issue at all
I continue to question your reasoning capabilities.

If you do the research, you will see that supercharging has been shown not to effect battery life so it is a moot point. I will put it to you differently, in your eyes, how fast can you charge and not affect battery life?
https://www.batterytechonline.com/charging/report-supercharging-doesn-t-degrade-tesla-battery-life#



This as well, especially the newer batteries. True don't even have the 80% recommended max charge disclaimer
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