You are confusing awareness with frequency. Recalls happen all the time with other manufacturers, it's just people such as yourself insist on sharing Tesla's recalls which incentivizes people to write the articles in the first place. They are an ad-based model, not a relevancy-based model. They write, you share, they make money. They write an article about BMW issuing a recall for brake malfunctions, or VW having to recall vehicles over a fuel pump issue or Ford having an issue with their seatbelts, rear axels potentially locking up causing them to seize, or an issue with their suspension being loose and potentially severing brake lines causing issues with both steering and stopping. Seems safety critical. Instead you choose to focus on a recall of Teslas solved through software for a backup camera issue that impacted an order of magnitude fewer vehicles than any one of those other recalls issued within the last week for a much lesser safety critical issue.


You are not a knowledge seeker, you are a confirmation of your preconceptions seeker, which is how you can say something as demonstrably wrong as Tesla hasn't reduced the cost of electric vehicles (cost, not price in case you need a reminder) when the information is readily available if you show even the most modest of intellectual curiosity. That is a persistent problem on this thread/other threads like it. You think you know better despite a lack of attention/interest in actually knowing better. You are a puppet being played by people who want you to share their articles and profit off your intellectual laziness.

Cybertruck exceeds EPA range in Edmund's range test.

The Cybertruck tested was the Foundation Series on all-terrain tires, which is rated by Tesla as having 318-mile range. Our original article was based on the publicly-available range of 340 miles.

The CT therefore actually exceeded its est. We have amended the original article. https://t.co/kJOwldtinU

— Edmunds (@edmunds) February 23, 2024

"Ford/GM/Stellantis are losing $xxx million/billion on EVs."

I wonder why. They don't get it. Ford is the closest to getting it of that group.

NEWS: In its all-electric 2025 Charger EV, Dodge will incorporate a feature called “Active Vibration Enhancement," which will make the car feel like it has a vibrating V8 engine.

The car will also has a fake exhaust sound that can get up to 126 decibels. https://t.co/DcDJg3oCZ3

— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) February 24, 2024

Of the legacy auto companies, Kia/Hyundai is actually the closest though. They need to fix their efficiency, but they're the company I have the most confidence in competing with Tesla long term. Stellantis is terrible, GM is bad, Ford is figuring it out but still behind Hyundai/Kia.

hph6203 said:

---

I find it ironic that a person that chose to put techno in their username thinks that the ability to update and improve a car through a software update without any inconvenience to the consumer is a bad thing. That a vehicle that has in the past had software updates that improved the efficiency of the vehicle so that it got more range is bad.

Do you complain about the fact that your phone can be updated over WiFi now instead of having to take it in to an AT&T or Verizon store?

---

I'm pretty sure that everyone that owns a smartphone or a computer has *****ed about software updates that have cluster ****ed their devices at one time or another.

Only phone I've ever had that was borked by software was a Samsung Galaxy S5 and it wasn't an update that did it, it sucked from the day I bought it. If their Android updates weren't handled by the carrier rather than the manufacturer it probably could've been fixed by an OTA update, but AT&T sucks. Kinda like how dealerships suck.

Quote:

---

it's just people such as yourself insist on sharing Tesla's recalls which incentivizes people to write the articles in the first place

---

Dude. The thread is literally titled why someone will never buy an EV. Sorry people disagree with you. If you can't accept that someone disagrees with you, and it really bothers you this much, maybe don't read the thread.

There are people that post on this thread that do it in good faith and provide valid criticisms and considered thought, and then there's you that lives in a world of your own making that doesn't actually align with history or reality.

You post things like demand has fallen at the same time that you're providing an article that demand grew by 76% in 2022 and 50% in 2023, then you argue with people that point out 50% growth is growing demand not falling demand. And then you respond by saying "demand falling by 26% is growing demand?" Or that the cost of producing an EV has fallen over the last decade, information that is readily available and verifiable through public financial disclosures.

It is not disagreements on opinions about EVs, it is disagreement on the basic verifiable facts about them. Based on the consistency with which you do it you're either showing no intellectual curiosity to understand the topic or you're just trolling.

hph6203 said:

---

There are people that post on this thread that do it in good faith and provide valid criticisms and considered thought, and then there's you that lives in a world of your own making that doesn't actually align with history or reality.

You post things like demand has fallen at the same time that you're providing an article that demand grew by 76% in 2022 and 50% in 2023, then you argue with people that point out 50% growth is growing demand not falling demand. And then you respond by saying "demand falling by 26% is growing demand?" Or that the cost of producing an EV has fallen over the last decade, information that is readily available and verifiable through public financial disclosures.

It is not disagreements on opinions about EVs, it is disagreement on the basic verifiable facts about them. Based on the consistency with which you do it you're either showing no intellectual curiosity to understand the topic or you're just trolling.

---

Get over it. Nobody cares about history or the reality of electric cars. Reviving this thread with new arguments for electric cars is not a selling point. If I wanted to get a sales pitch for electric cars I will seek it out. I am not convinced, nor am I willing to spend the extra time or money to be like the Smith's and get the latest gadget. This is simple fact and a more than valid criticism.

And electric vehicles suck for many reasons as mentioned multiple times upthread.

They do suck for many reasons, they're better for many others. If you don't want a pros and cons of EVs, don't open a thread on them. You claim to not care and yet you're reading this thread.

This thread generally isn't brought back up by people that believe EVs have a place in the market, it's done by people like techno posting some inconsequential recall for a backup camera, so direct your frustration at him.

That said, I don't know how a person can be frustrated to find a discussion on EVs in a thread about EVs, but here we are. I don't want to read commentary on Gaza, know what I don't do? Open threads about Gaza. Easy. The world is not designed for me, it's designed around me, and I and you can choose what to focus on.

Quote:

---

If I wanted to get a sales pitch for electric cars I will seek it out.

---

You did seek it out.

Thanks for the thread. It reinforced my misgivings about the electric car fad.

I read it. In one ear, considered, and out the other that sales pitch went.

bobbranco said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

There are people that post on this thread that do it in good faith and provide valid criticisms and considered thought, and then there's you that lives in a world of your own making that doesn't actually align with history or reality.

You post things like demand has fallen at the same time that you're providing an article that demand grew by 76% in 2022 and 50% in 2023, then you argue with people that point out 50% growth is growing demand not falling demand. And then you respond by saying "demand falling by 26% is growing demand?" Or that the cost of producing an EV has fallen over the last decade, information that is readily available and verifiable through public financial disclosures.

It is not disagreements on opinions about EVs, it is disagreement on the basic verifiable facts about them. Based on the consistency with which you do it you're either showing no intellectual curiosity to understand the topic or you're just trolling.

---

Get over it. Nobody cares about history or the reality of electric cars. Reviving this thread with new arguments for electric cars is not a selling point. If I wanted to get a sales pitch for electric cars I will seek it out. I am not convinced, nor am I willing to spend the extra time or money to be like the Smith's and get the latest gadget. This is simple fact and a more than valid criticism.

And electric vehicles suck for many reasons as mentioned multiple times upthread.

---

Yup. There is no convincing EV fans. They remind one of a cult. The constant twisting of facts and complaints about the headlines show that reality does not necessarily comport with their preconceptions.

When all else fails, they resort to attacking the messenger.

Meanwhile, everybody's stock is down in the middle of a bull market.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-02-24/investors-flee-tumbling-ev-upstarts-once-hailed-as-next-tesla

Quote:

---

There was a time when the backing of some of the world's deepest pockets and the mere ambition to sell electric cars was enough to inspire confidence in the stocks of upstarts Rivian Automotive Inc. and Lucid Group Inc. Now investors have all but thrown in the towel on the shares.

All it took was a fresh dose of reality from the two companies this week around cooling demand for EVs. Rivian, which makes electric pickups, SUVs and delivery vans and counts Amazon.com Inc. as its top shareholder, said its production will stay flat at last year's levels. It also announced plans to shrink its workforce again. Lucid, majority-owned by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund, projected only a slight increase in output over 2023. Both forecasts fell far short of analysts' expectations.

---

Agreed.

Rivian has an outside chance of becoming profitable, they claim it will happen Q4. They are differentiated enough from Tesla as to not be in direct competition with them and they have a strategy that could allow them to reach a scale of production that would permit them to be profitable.

Lucid has absolutely no chance. Their product is not well differentiated enough from Tesla to not be in direct competition with Tesla and they don't have the cost structure to compete on price, which means they have to compete on quality, which means their prices have to rise, which means they're targeting a smaller market, which is in conflict with their need to scale sales in order to reach profitability.

The car business has high capital costs, it is a a very difficult business to be in with lots of suppliers, lots of threats, and any reduction in demand can be threatening to even established players let alone startups. It's why there's been so many bankruptcies and consolidations in the history of the business.

You are under the impression they're struggling because they're making EVs, but the only reason they have a chance at all is because they're making EVs. If they were making gas vehicles they would be bankrupt already (they actually would never have even gotten funded at a high enough level for you to be aware they existed at all).


You do not follow this topic closely enough to educate people on it. You are assuming perspectives, because you do not have intellectual curiosity. You are under the impression that the people you are arguing against are dumber than you, but I'll remind you that you didn't know the difference between slowing growth and falling demand.

hph6203 said:

---

Only phone I've ever had that was borked by software was a Samsung Galaxy S5 and it wasn't an update that did it, it sucked from the day I bought it. If their Android updates weren't handled by the carrier rather than the manufacturer it probably could've been fixed by an OTA update, but AT&T sucks. Kinda like how dealerships suck.

---

A simple google search shows NUMEROUS examples of Samsung phones being bricked. So, it's not like it's a one off event.

Why I haven't purchased a Samsung phone since I bought that one. Easy problem, don't buy sketchy products. Like a Lucid. Or a GM EV.

hph6203 said:

---

Why I haven't purchased a Samsung phone since I bought that one. Easy problem, don't buy sketchy products. Like a Lucid. Or a GM EV.

---

Or a Tesla, amirite?

New Tesla Model 3 Bricked After Update
[url=https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/update-2023-20-7-bricked-my-car.307537/][/url]

2 million vehicles got an update and one had an issue that probably could've been resolved by the user if they were actually motivated to resolve their own problem. Saving 1,999,999 people a trip to the dealership! Great success!

hph6203 said:

---

2 million vehicles got an update and one had an issue that probably could've been resolved by the user if they were actually motivated to resolve their own problem. Saving 1,999,999 people a trip to the dealership! Great success!

---

You know there's others...I just grabbed the first one...I

But, I'm really just yanking your chain.

Just trolling in return.

Of course there's going to be failure points and there's more than that one example (though I'm not 100% convinced that example isn't just user error with a new vehicle), but those failure points exist with remote updates and when you take your vehicle to a dealership for firmware updates. It's just a matter of the amount of effort to uncover whether a failure is going to occur during the fix.

I'd rather delay updates, let others complete there's, see if there are widespread reports of issues and if not update and hope I'm not a rarity than have to deal with taking a car to a dealership to get it up to spec.

Another reason not to buy a Tesla: they're vandal magnets. Prolly libs who hate Elon, taking it out on the product.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-home/tesla-model-y-vandalism-footage-tiktok/

techno-ag said:

---

Another reason not to buy a Tesla: they're vandal magnets. Prolly libs who hate Elon, taking it out on the product.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-home/tesla-model-y-vandalism-footage-tiktok/

---

Absolutely Devastating. The only cars that are vandalized are Tesla's.

It could be because thieves can't steal them easily as they are among the least stolen vehicles. Something about cameras that can record your face and the inability to Hotwire a car make them resistant to theft.

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Another reason not to buy a Tesla: they're vandal magnets. Prolly libs who hate Elon, taking it out on the product.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-home/tesla-model-y-vandalism-footage-tiktok/

---

Absolutely Devastating. The only cars that are vandalized are Tesla's.

It could be because thieves can't steal them easily as they are among the least stolen vehicles. Something about cameras that can record your face and the inability to Hotwire a car make them resistant to theft.

---

That.

Or maybe they're too ugly to steal.

Ag with kids said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Another reason not to buy a Tesla: they're vandal magnets. Prolly libs who hate Elon, taking it out on the product.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-home/tesla-model-y-vandalism-footage-tiktok/

---

Absolutely Devastating. The only cars that are vandalized are Tesla's.

It could be because thieves can't steal them easily as they are among the least stolen vehicles. Something about cameras that can record your face and the inability to Hotwire a car make them resistant to theft.

---

That.

Or maybe they're too ugly to steal.

---

I knew someone was going to post that because that's about all you guys can think of.

Don't buy pickups, they are theft magnets. The reason insurance rates are only 10-30% higher for EVs despite higher repair costs in case of accidents is this difference in theft rates which is not a small difference.

Eh. It was a pro-Tesla site, warning its readers that owners are getting keyed. Pooh-Pooh it if you will but it's evidently a thing for Tesla owners.

hph6203 said:

---

. I don't want to read commentary on Gaza, know what I don't do? Open threads about Gaza. Easy. The world is not designed for me, it's designed around me, and I and you can choose what to focus on.

---

I don't want to read about how much EV's suck? I don't open a thread literally titled "I will never buy an electric powered vehicle" Easy.

Really makes you think.

Kansas Kid said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Another reason not to buy a Tesla: they're vandal magnets. Prolly libs who hate Elon, taking it out on the product.

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-home/tesla-model-y-vandalism-footage-tiktok/

---

Absolutely Devastating. The only cars that are vandalized are Tesla's.

It could be because thieves can't steal them easily as they are among the least stolen vehicles. Something about cameras that can record your face and the inability to Hotwire a car make them resistant to theft.

---

That.

Or maybe they're too ugly to steal.

---

I knew someone was going to post that because that's about all you guys can think of.

---

Your sarcasmeter sucks.

Here's 27 internet bucks. Buy yourself a new one.

techno-ag said:

---

Eh. It was a pro-Tesla site, warning its readers that owners are getting keyed. Pooh-Pooh it if you will but it's evidently a thing for Tesla owners.

---

Where in the article does it say getting the car keyed is a common thing? It mentioned one vehicle and some people that say they don't want to wrap their car because they don't want to draw attention to it.

The one common thing is getting coal rolled which also happens a lot to bicyclists, walkers and hybrids.

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Eh. It was a pro-Tesla site, warning its readers that owners are getting keyed. Pooh-Pooh it if you will but it's evidently a thing for Tesla owners.

---

Where in the article does it say getting the car keyed is a common thing? It mentioned one vehicle and some people that say they don't want to wrap their car because they don't want to draw attention to it.

The one common thing is getting coal rolled which also happens a lot to bicyclists, walkers and hybrids.

---

Quote:

---

The malicious damage serves as a sobering reminder that some still react to electric vehicles with hostility rather than celebration.

---

What I was referring to.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-tesla-bill-operate/46874617

If I'm reading this right (and the article is kinda vague) it looks like Oklahoma may be on the verge of restricting Tesla galleries (dealerships that are not technically dealerships) in the state.

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Eh. It was a pro-Tesla site, warning its readers that owners are getting keyed. Pooh-Pooh it if you will but it's evidently a thing for Tesla owners.

---

Where in the article does it say getting the car keyed is a common thing? It mentioned one vehicle and some people that say they don't want to wrap their car because they don't want to draw attention to it.

The one common thing is getting coal rolled which also happens a lot to bicyclists, walkers and hybrids.

---

Quote:

---

The malicious damage serves as a sobering reminder that some still react to electric vehicles with hostility rather than celebration.

---

What I was referring to.

---

That is a big stretch you are making from that comment. The hostility to would be a lot of what is in this thread and things like coal rolling mentioned earlier. If vandalism was a major problem, you would see it in insurance rates because they are more expensive to repair, especially body damage, given all of the gadgets for driver assists and the methods of construction. The 360 cameras is what I have read has kept a lot of damage and theft because you will be on candid camera (that does raise legitimate privacy concerns but these days I think you need to assume there are multiple cameras watching you at all times you are outside)

techno-ag said:

---

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-tesla-bill-operate/46874617

If I'm reading this right (and the article is kinda vague) it looks like Oklahoma may be on the verge of restricting Tesla galleries (dealerships that are not technically dealerships) in the state.

---

Surely you're opposed to this as a believer in the free and open market?

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Kansas Kid said:

---

techno-ag said:

---

Eh. It was a pro-Tesla site, warning its readers that owners are getting keyed. Pooh-Pooh it if you will but it's evidently a thing for Tesla owners.

---

Where in the article does it say getting the car keyed is a common thing? It mentioned one vehicle and some people that say they don't want to wrap their car because they don't want to draw attention to it.

The one common thing is getting coal rolled which also happens a lot to bicyclists, walkers and hybrids.

---

Quote:

---

The malicious damage serves as a sobering reminder that some still react to electric vehicles with hostility rather than celebration.

---

What I was referring to.

---

That is a big stretch you are making from that comment. The hostility to would be a lot of what is in this thread and things like coal rolling mentioned earlier. If vandalism was a major problem, you would see it in insurance rates because they are more expensive to repair, especially body damage, given all of the gadgets for driver assists and the methods of construction. The 360 cameras is what I have read has kept a lot of damage and theft because you will be on candid camera (that does raise legitimate privacy concerns but these days I think you need to assume there are multiple cameras watching you at all times you are outside)

---

I thought we already settled that insurance rates are higher for EV's? IIRC they are hugh across the board, but what we couldn't decide is if that is because of the characteristics of the cars themselves, or the personality types of the yokels and lemmings who think its a good idea to drive them.