Rongagin71 said:

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Your post has caused a thought.
What if, rather than CO2, it is actually the NOISE of "performance" cars
that is the root cause for the crusade to make everyone go EV?
There is your fun theory for the nonce.

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Only ones that bother me are the cars with the ricer muffler. I wouldn't mind it is I never heard another one of those. We could have another thread with great debate as to the best sounding cars. There are a number of them.

"The more I drive it, the more I like my Rivian", ouch
90 miles towing 11,000 lbs
1,100+ Wh/mi

tk for tu juan said:

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"The more I drive it, the more I like my Rivian", ouch
90 miles towing 11,000 lbs
1,100+ Wh/mi

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Dropping the trailer to fuel up would suck really bad

Guy has real bad Elon derangement syndrome. Major pussified lib.

Yeah, he usually isn't my first choice for reviews.

MaxPower said:

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Then don't buy it if you are doing long towing trips. Seems simple. Of course I'm also the guy who doesn't understand why the F-150 is the most popular vehicle in the U.S. How many of those people actually need a truck? If I were towing long distances often I'd jump straight to a diesel F-250.

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I only go that distance maybe once or twice a year. But when you need it, you need it. I still think electric is cool. My buddy just bought a Rivian. Really cool truck.

I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

GeorgiAg said:

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I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

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LOL! Those are disappearing fast, so act now if you want a new stick shift.

Again the "hate" for EVs is mostly driven by government pushing them so hard by making the production of ICE vehicles that meet government standards impossible in the near future. If we weren't seeing CAFE standards changed to impossible levels in the near future and actual outlawing of the sale of ICE vehicles in the not too distant future, most people would say "enjoy your Rivian" but leave me alone. But it appears the "leave me alone" part is not going to happen at the rate we are going.

GeorgiAg said:

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MaxPower said:

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Then don't buy it if you are doing long towing trips. Seems simple. Of course I'm also the guy who doesn't understand why the F-150 is the most popular vehicle in the U.S. How many of those people actually need a truck? If I were towing long distances often I'd jump straight to a diesel F-250.

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I only go that distance maybe once or twice a year. But when you need it, you need it. I still think electric is cool. My buddy just bought a Rivian. Really cool truck.

I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

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Yeah, what the luxury, sports, and hyper cars (Bugatti, etc) are creating with EVs is amazing. They're taking the tech, and the designs of their vehicles to a whole new level.

If the Supreme Court overturns Chevron as many predict, it will likely result in the Biden emissions standards to be thrown out. You also have D states like Connecticut already reversing course on the mandates. Finally, you have the UAW and other unions affected by the rules also lobbying against the mandates and I don't think the Dems want to lose Michigan.

This is all before you get to the point where the global mining and metal refining industry can't keep up with EV mandates on the current schedule.

Fortunately, just like we are seeing reversals on DEI and other liberal tides, the EV mandates are just a matter of time before they get rolled back.

No Spin Ag said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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MaxPower said:

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Then don't buy it if you are doing long towing trips. Seems simple. Of course I'm also the guy who doesn't understand why the F-150 is the most popular vehicle in the U.S. How many of those people actually need a truck? If I were towing long distances often I'd jump straight to a diesel F-250.

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I only go that distance maybe once or twice a year. But when you need it, you need it. I still think electric is cool. My buddy just bought a Rivian. Really cool truck.

I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

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Yeah, what the luxury, sports, and hyper cars (Bugatti, etc) are creating with EVs is amazing. They're taking the tech, and the designs of their vehicles to a whole new level.

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Unfortunately, I am afraid the next Corvette will be an EV or hybrid. I hope they leave the All American sports car alone even though I agree the technology can turn them into Hypercars or close to it.

Kansas Kid said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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MaxPower said:

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Then don't buy it if you are doing long towing trips. Seems simple. Of course I'm also the guy who doesn't understand why the F-150 is the most popular vehicle in the U.S. How many of those people actually need a truck? If I were towing long distances often I'd jump straight to a diesel F-250.

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I only go that distance maybe once or twice a year. But when you need it, you need it. I still think electric is cool. My buddy just bought a Rivian. Really cool truck.

I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

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Yeah, what the luxury, sports, and hyper cars (Bugatti, etc) are creating with EVs is amazing. They're taking the tech, and the designs of their vehicles to a whole new level.

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Unfortunately, I am afraid the next Corvette will be an EV or hybrid. I hope they leave the All American sports car alone even though I agree the technology can turn them into Hypercars or close to it.

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I hear you about wanting them to stay ICE. Here's to hoping they make both.

If you love fossil fuel production you've got to love Joe Biden, being that the U.S. is producing more oil than any country in history ever has.

Kansas Kid said:

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Unfortunately, I am afraid the next Corvette will be an EV or hybrid. I hope they leave the All American sports car alone even though I agree the technology can turn them into Hypercars or close to it.

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Makes sense, being that Corvettes are all about performance.

Simply happens in spite of his policies to kill fossil fuels.

Kansas Kid said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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GeorgiAg said:

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MaxPower said:

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Then don't buy it if you are doing long towing trips. Seems simple. Of course I'm also the guy who doesn't understand why the F-150 is the most popular vehicle in the U.S. How many of those people actually need a truck? If I were towing long distances often I'd jump straight to a diesel F-250.

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I only go that distance maybe once or twice a year. But when you need it, you need it. I still think electric is cool. My buddy just bought a Rivian. Really cool truck.

I'd like a Tesla or a an electric Porsche. But I'm really thinking for my post mid life crisis daily driver car l want a stick shift before they disappear forever.

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Yeah, what the luxury, sports, and hyper cars (Bugatti, etc) are creating with EVs is amazing. They're taking the tech, and the designs of their vehicles to a whole new level.

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Unfortunately, I am afraid the next Corvette will be an EV or hybrid. I hope they leave the All American sports car alone even though I agree the technology can turn them into Hypercars or close to it.

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Isn't there already a version of corvette with a hybrid system?

Yes they have started production of a hybrid E-Ray. But this is in addition to the gas V8 Corvetes, not instead of them.

Aggie Apotheosis said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Unfortunately, I am afraid the next Corvette will be an EV or hybrid. I hope they leave the All American sports car alone even though I agree the technology can turn them into Hypercars or close to it.

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Makes sense, being that Corvettes are all about performance.

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If it was strictly performance, a hybrid will blow the doors off a pure ICE especially when you factor in it will be all wheel drive.

My issue is I am a purest when it comes to a Vette. If I buy another one, I want the biggest engine available and a stick shift. I figure the stick makes the car almost immune to theft because few of the under 30 crowd knows how to drive a stick especially one with a tight clutch.

Was just reading an online article about how great EV's are doing in Norway, which is a much colder country than the USA.
About halfway into the article was mention that 90% of Norwegians with EV's also own their own home with a garage in which to keep that EV charged.

Rongagin71 said:

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Was just reading an online article about how great EV's are doing in Norway, which is a much colder country than the USA.
About halfway into the article was mention that 90% of Norwegians with EV's also own their own home with a garage in which to keep that EV charged.

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Those (have a home) are really the only ones who I'd think would get one. Otherwise you're reliant on charging stations and at that point you're going to have to really keep an eye on the power left.

I know a couple of people who have them and rent and one a month they spend their time sitting in their vehicle waiting for it to change. Not for me.

No Spin Ag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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Was just reading an online article about how great EV's are doing in Norway, which is a much colder country than the USA.
About halfway into the article was mention that 90% of Norwegians with EV's also own their own home with a garage in which to keep that EV charged.

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Those (have a home) are really the only ones who I'd think would get one. Otherwise you're reliant on charging stations and at that point you're going to have to really keep an eye on the power left.

I know a couple of people who have them and rent and one a month they spend their time sitting in their vehicle waiting for it to change. Not for me.

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I agree you need to be able to charge where you live. If so, EVs can be a great option for the daily driver.

I bet the couple you know is charging a lot more than once a month.

Corvette E-Ray (mild hybrid)

bobbranco said:

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Simply happens in spite of his policies to kill fossil fuels.

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Best thing about it is that we're producing more oil than any country in history ever has but the rig count is down roughly two-thirds from the highs during the Obama administration. The highest rig count during the Obama years was 2017. During the Trump years it was 1077. Today's rig count is 620. So we're producing all that oil more efficiently (and hopefully with less environmental impact) than ever before.

Directional drilling

E-Ray is all-wheel-drive. Standard V8 vroom-vroom to the rear wheels, electric motors driving the front wheels. They have a "stealth mode" that is a electric only with a range of only a few miles. The electric part seems to be for just brief periods of extra power or performance.

UFC Champion, Sean Strickland about his Tesla

And there are still people who believe that Tesla's customers are just environmentalists from California who get offended by Elon's comments on X 😂

Video by @ninamdrama on YT #UFC297 pic.twitter.com/QSCRlCCllC

— Luca Greco (@lucagrecoita) January 20, 2024

Kansas Kid said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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Was just reading an online article about how great EV's are doing in Norway, which is a much colder country than the USA.
About halfway into the article was mention that 90% of Norwegians with EV's also own their own home with a garage in which to keep that EV charged.

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Those (have a home) are really the only ones who I'd think would get one. Otherwise you're reliant on charging stations and at that point you're going to have to really keep an eye on the power left.

I know a couple of people who have them and rent and one a month they spend their time sitting in their vehicle waiting for it to change. Not for me.

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I agree you need to be able to charge where you live. If so, EVs can be a great option for the daily driver.

I bet the couple you know is charging a lot more than once a month.

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I'd like to also note that it is difficult to know how much charging your EV is going to cost.
Gasoline prices fluctuate but are posted and understandable, electric prices are guesswork.

Rongagin71 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Rongagin71 said:

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Was just reading an online article about how great EV's are doing in Norway, which is a much colder country than the USA.
About halfway into the article was mention that 90% of Norwegians with EV's also own their own home with a garage in which to keep that EV charged.

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Those (have a home) are really the only ones who I'd think would get one. Otherwise you're reliant on charging stations and at that point you're going to have to really keep an eye on the power left.

I know a couple of people who have them and rent and one a month they spend their time sitting in their vehicle waiting for it to change. Not for me.

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I agree you need to be able to charge where you live. If so, EVs can be a great option for the daily driver.

I bet the couple you know is charging a lot more than once a month.

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I'd like to also note that it is difficult to know how much charging your EV is going to cost.
Gasoline prices fluctuate but are posted and understandable, electric prices are guesswork.

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Maybe where you live but not where I do. The energy charge for my electricity is $0.07-0.08/kwh and is determined by rate cases that don't change very often. My gasoline over the last 3 years has been as low at $2.19 and over $5.00 in my home town.

If you are on a variable rate plan in Texas, you can have a lot of variation but that is the result of trying to have low prices most of the time.

If you charge at a Tesla station, the rate per minute is posted. There is some unknown in how long it will take to charge but once you have a car for a while, you have a pretty good idea.

Not sure if this Redstate piece has been quoted/linked here; "EV's enter the 'total failure' phase"

Quote:

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There is no better example of government idiocy than the top-down push for electric vehicles, which at this point has cost American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. They were a solution to a problem that didn't exist, and even then, they turned out to not be a solution at all. It's not just about cost either. How useful is a car that loses most of its range when it gets below freezing? How useful is a car that can't be driven for more than a few hours in a row, even in perfect conditions?

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Quote:

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Ford and GM aren't cutting EV production because they want to. They are doing so because the market is forcing them to. People want reliable vehicles that meet their needs. They don't want to pay a five-figure repair bill for a new battery or because an electric motor failed. Gas-powered cars are not only far more capable, they are cheaper when it comes to acquisition, maintenance, and operating costs. The nexus of spending money on fuel vs. electricity is so far apart that you'll be buying the aforementioned new battery long before you approach any actual savings.

So again, it's worth asking whether EVs have any redeeming qualities in their current iteration. They aren't renewable, and rely on toxic chemicals mined by literal child slaves in Africa that eventually require replacement. They are less capable than your average gas-powered vehicle. They typically cost more new but don't hold their value because the batteries are so expensive to replace, meaning buyers get hit coming and going. The list goes on.

Aren't they saving the planet, though? I'd suggest not given they still rely on power largely created by fossil fuels anyway. So, what's the point? All EVs are doing is empowering China, which produces 70 percent of the world's EVs and controls most of the mining of the materials needed to build them. How many billions of dollars are American companies going to continue to throw away pursuing this government-pushed pipedream? The answer is likely quite a few billion more. Eventually, the market always wins, though.

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Yes, two of the most popular vehicles in the country are EV's (model y and 3) and it means EV's are failing. It's totally not an indication that no one wants half ass attempts from the traditional auto makers.

nortex97 said:

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Not sure if this Redstate piece has been quoted/linked here; "EV's enter the 'total failure' phase"

Quote:

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There is no better example of government idiocy than the top-down push for electric vehicles, which at this point has cost American taxpayers tens of billions of dollars. They were a solution to a problem that didn't exist, and even then, they turned out to not be a solution at all. It's not just about cost either. How useful is a car that loses most of its range when it gets below freezing? How useful is a car that can't be driven for more than a few hours in a row, even in perfect conditions?

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Quote:

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Ford and GM aren't cutting EV production because they want to. They are doing so because the market is forcing them to. People want reliable vehicles that meet their needs. They don't want to pay a five-figure repair bill for a new battery or because an electric motor failed. Gas-powered cars are not only far more capable, they are cheaper when it comes to acquisition, maintenance, and operating costs. The nexus of spending money on fuel vs. electricity is so far apart that you'll be buying the aforementioned new battery long before you approach any actual savings.

So again, it's worth asking whether EVs have any redeeming qualities in their current iteration. They aren't renewable, and rely on toxic chemicals mined by literal child slaves in Africa that eventually require replacement. They are less capable than your average gas-powered vehicle. They typically cost more new but don't hold their value because the batteries are so expensive to replace, meaning buyers get hit coming and going. The list goes on.

Aren't they saving the planet, though? I'd suggest not given they still rely on power largely created by fossil fuels anyway. So, what's the point? All EVs are doing is empowering China, which produces 70 percent of the world's EVs and controls most of the mining of the materials needed to build them. How many billions of dollars are American companies going to continue to throw away pursuing this government-pushed pipedream? The answer is likely quite a few billion more. Eventually, the market always wins, though.

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Devastating. Absolutely devastating.

There was an internet piece about 7 months ago that claimed China had abandoned 10,000 EV cars.
This follow up gives a more accurate picture and (without knowing it when published about 6 months ago) kinda predicts the failure of EV cars as rental vehicles.

hph6203 said:

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texagbeliever said:

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hph6203 said:

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Braking Distance 60-0 mph

Model 3: 114 ft
Camry: 122 ft

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114 ft you say. Try 152 feet. And Tesla claims 133 ft. So you still are wrong even by Tesla claims.

Tesla 152 feet 60-0mph 7 feet longer than a F150 Truck

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Looking at dates on articles is one of the first rules of the internet. My link is for the 2024 Model 3, yours is for the 2018 Model 3.

Nine days later, Consumer Reports has updated its review to give the Model 3 its recommendation. What changed? Over the weekend, Tesla pushed out an over-the-air software update, one that the carmaker says tweaked the calibration of the vehicle's antilock braking algorithm. That cut the vehicle's 60 mph stopping distance a whole 19 feet, to 133, about average for a luxury compact sedan.

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Your first article with the 114 ft also says this:

Quote:

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U.S. production cars will almost certainly stretch that braking distance and shrink that lateral g number with their all-season tires.

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Yes, typical communism, they came up with something, forced it via various mechanisms on the 'market' and then junked much of what was produced. The 'blue plate' EV's used to spike demand initially are basically trashed/polluting dumps/landfills/water supplies.

nortex97 said:

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Yes, typical communism, they came up with something, forced it via various mechanisms on the 'market' and then junked much of what was produced. The 'blue plate' EV's used to spike demand initially are basically trashed/polluting dumps/landfills/water supplies.

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As you are implying, building stuff and then never using it is common in China. The country has built cities that sit empty. It doesn't get more wasteful than that.

Kansas Kid said:

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nortex97 said:

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Yes, typical communism, they came up with something, forced it via various mechanisms on the 'market' and then junked much of what was produced. The 'blue plate' EV's used to spike demand initially are basically trashed/polluting dumps/landfills/water supplies.

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As you are implying, building stuff and then never using it is common in China. The country has built cities that sit empty. It doesn't get more wasteful than that.

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Yes, good catch. In this instance, they sought to corner a market globally, knowing the communist policies in the US and Europe would dovetail into their racket/political goals/monopoly.