Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This is such a stupid take it defies logic. Your going to say that 20% of the world population (and growing) has always been LGBTQ, and this is nothing to do with societal influences?

---

No where near that high. They just cry and whine so much it seems that way.

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This is such a stupid take it defies logic. Your going to say that 20% of the world population (and growing) has always been LGBTQ, and this is nothing to do with societal influences?

---

I think people are way more open about being LGBTQ today for a million reasons. Is it 20%? Seems high, but I'm practically a geriatric as far as gays go so what do I know.

---

Nothing. Because this is 100% a social contagion. If you degrade traditional sexual morals and promote alternative sexual lifestyle to impressionable populations, they're going to partake in riskier behaviors. Now, every kid who has had a confusing thought is encouraged by society to embrace that deviancy. You cannot possibly believe that has no impact on behavior and self identification.

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This is such a stupid take it defies logic. Your going to say that 20% of the world population (and growing) has always been LGBTQ, and this is nothing to do with societal influences?

---

I think people are way more open about being LGBTQ today for a million reasons. Is it 20%? Seems high, but I'm practically a geriatric as far as gays go so what do I know.

---

Nothing. Because this is 100% a social contagion. If you degrade traditional sexual morals and promote alternative sexual lifestyle to impressionable populations, they're going to partake in riskier behaviors. Now, every kid who has had a confusing thought is encouraged by society to embrace that deviancy. You cannot possibly believe that has no impact on behavior and self identification.

---

Right, we all gave in to our urges and should just be straight. Like you "chose" to be, right?

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This is such a stupid take it defies logic. Your going to say that 20% of the world population (and growing) has always been LGBTQ, and this is nothing to do with societal influences?

---

I think people are way more open about being LGBTQ today for a million reasons. Is it 20%? Seems high, but I'm practically a geriatric as far as gays go so what do I know.

---

Nothing. Because this is 100% a social contagion. If you degrade traditional sexual morals and promote alternative sexual lifestyle to impressionable populations, they're going to partake in riskier behaviors. Now, every kid who has had a confusing thought is encouraged by society to embrace that deviancy. You cannot possibly believe that has no impact on behavior and self identification.

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

Quote:

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

---

Yah, it's just a coincidence that BOTH children of the mother in the OP are LGBQ.

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This is such a stupid take it defies logic. Your going to say that 20% of the world population (and growing) has always been LGBTQ, and this is nothing to do with societal influences?

---

I think people are way more open about being LGBTQ today for a million reasons. Is it 20%? Seems high, but I'm practically a geriatric as far as gays go so what do I know.

---

Nothing. Because this is 100% a social contagion. If you degrade traditional sexual morals and promote alternative sexual lifestyle to impressionable populations, they're going to partake in riskier behaviors. Now, every kid who has had a confusing thought is encouraged by society to embrace that deviancy. You cannot possibly believe that has no impact on behavior and self identification.

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

---

Rapid onset gender dysphoria. Why is there a sudden spike in "transgender" teenage girls when historically there has never been such an issue in that population? You're really going to say that it's a matter of liberation as opposed to the effect of a perverse culture preying on emotionally unstable populations?

But hey, I must really just be afraid of catching the gay….what a joke.

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

---

Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Quote:

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

---

Yah, it's just a coincidence that BOTH children of the mother in the OP are LGBQ.

---

I hope my parents take it ok when I let them know one of them must be gay.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Quote:

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

---

Yah, it's just a coincidence that BOTH children of the mother in the OP are LGBQ.

---

Even if random sampling, the chance of a LGBQ person having an LGBQ sibling is somewhere between 1 in 400 to 1 to 200. So not super high, but also not super low, either. Think about the number of people you see on any given day. Heck you'll see more than 200 people just by going to the mall. Chances are pretty good that one of them was gay and had a gay sibling. And that's if you think there's no genetic component. If you do concede there's a genetic component then I'd expect the odds could go up dramatically.

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

alans17 said:

---

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Quote:

---

LOL You're basically saying being gay is contagious. Are you afraid you or your loved ones are going to come down with a case of "the gays"? I wish acceptance was more contagious. *facepalm*

---

Yah, it's just a coincidence that BOTH children of the mother in the OP are LGBQ.

---

Even if random sampling, the chance of a LGBQ person having an LGBQ sibling is somewhere between 1 in 400 to 1 to 200. So not super high, but also not super low, either. Think about the number of people you see on any given day. Heck you'll see more than 200 people just by going to the mall. Chances are pretty good that one of them was gay and had a gay sibling. And that's if you think there's no genetic component. If you do concede there's a genetic component then I'd expect the odds could go up dramatically.

---

I get your point, but not sure those stats can be right. 1 in 200 even is a pretty low incidence of homosexuality.

I know several sets of gay brothers. There is a studied environmental impact there though no definitive conclusion re: men being gay at a higher incidence if they have older brothers (38% more likely).

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1165201

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

---

Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

---

Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

---

I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

---

I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

---

Like I said, nobody chooses to be gay.

These men were always gay, they were just going through the motions.

I can't believe this is the type of dialogue people here think is best for the world, families, etc. Just live a lie - that's the best way to do life?

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

---

Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

---

Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

---

First, there's nothing analogous about human sexuality and favorite colors, so nice strawman. Second, you believe that sexuality is 100% genetic and that every sexual desire you ever have is predetermined?

Gay life is a choice. Sorry.

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

---

I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

---

Like I said, nobody chooses to be gay.

These men were always gay, they were just going through the motions.

I can't believe this is the type of dialogue people here think is best for the world, families, etc. Just live a lie - that's the best way to do life?

---

Do you believe all of LGBTQ+ are born that way?

I just want this on record. Or is it just the LGs?

Rockdoc said:

---

Gay life is a choice. Sorry.

---

Just like anorexia, alcoholism, and a host of other mental issues. Maybe they were "born that way", but can change.

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

---

Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

---

Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

---

First, there's nothing analogous about human sexuality and favorite colors, so nice strawman. Second, you believe that sexuality is 100% genetic and that every sexual desire you ever have is predetermined?

---

Its not a straw man at all. I'm pointing out that being gay is defined by your preference to the same sex. That's actually the definition. Are you saying a straight person isn't straight until the first time they have an interaction with someone of the opposite sex?

Rockdoc said:

---

Gay life is a choice. Sorry.

---

So glad you can look inside gay people's heads and clear that up for us.

Martin Q. Blank said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Gay life is a choice. Sorry.

---

Just like anorexia, alcoholism, and a host of other mental issues. Maybe they were "born that way", but can change.

---

Anorexia and alcoholism aren't choices. They are diseases.

A is A said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

---

I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

---

Like I said, nobody chooses to be gay.

These men were always gay, they were just going through the motions.

I can't believe this is the type of dialogue people here think is best for the world, families, etc. Just live a lie - that's the best way to do life?

---

Do you believe all of LGBTQ+ are born that way?

I just want this on record. Or is it just the LGs?

---

Are you asking me if it's genetic? Science seems to indicate there are markers that may make it more likely, but not a specific gay gene. Seems there are environmental impacts too, like the link I listed above about having multiple older brothers.

I don't think people choose to be gay or straight.

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

alans17 said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

---

So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

---

Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

---

Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

---

First, there's nothing analogous about human sexuality and favorite colors, so nice strawman. Second, you believe that sexuality is 100% genetic and that every sexual desire you ever have is predetermined?

---

Its not a straw man at all. I'm pointing out that being gay is defined by your preference to the same sex. That's actually the definition. Are you saying a straight person isn't straight until the first time they have an interaction with someone of the opposite sex?

---

Sexuality is defined by actions. Actions reflect values and preferences. If someone has desires toward the same sex, but chooses not to act on them they are 100% not gay. You are gay if you partake in homosexual behavior.

See my previous responses if you still don't get it.

ETA it is 100% a strawman. Favorite color and sexuality are not in the same universe code when it comes to decision making and human nature. Not to mention, nobody is "born with" a favorite color.

TXAGFAN said:

---

A is A said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Kvetch said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

Marcus Brutus said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

---

To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

---

LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

---

Was this intended to be proof of something?

---

You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

---

I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

---

Like I said, nobody chooses to be gay.

These men were always gay, they were just going through the motions.

I can't believe this is the type of dialogue people here think is best for the world, families, etc. Just live a lie - that's the best way to do life?

---

Do you believe all of LGBTQ+ are born that way?

I just want this on record. Or is it just the LGs?

---

Are you asking me if it's genetic? Science seems to indicate there are markers that may make it more likely, but not a specific gay gene. Seems there are environmental impacts too, like the link I listed above about having multiple older brothers.

I don't think people choose to be gay or straight.

---

Like many other aspects of human nature, people may be born with proclivities one way or another, but it is ultimately a matter of free will. People can be born with addictive personalities, but it is still ultimately their choice to engage in activities that risk addiction.

That's why this issue is a moral question, not a physical one.

TXAGFAN said:

---

YouBet said:

---

TXAGFAN said:

---

YouBet said:

---

alans17 said:

---

WHOOP!'91 said:

---

Some Junkie Cosmonaut said:

---

alans17 said:

---

YouBet said:

---

Not sure what there is to argue about on the Disney exec's comments. She stated her intent to populate programming with an abundance of gay characters. It's right there in the video straight from her mouth.

Thus, their intent is to indoctrinate kids through propaganda.

There is no way to argue otherwise.

---

This is a baffling stance. You seem to think that being exposed to gay people will make you gay? And that any media that reflects the reality that gays exist is considered propaganda?

---

Stop obfuscating, please. What would you call 50% representation of a group that makes up less than 6% of the population in children's programming?

---

Well, 50% BiPOC or LGBQT. We already did that math, he took several liberties, and still came up 5% short.

Then again, who here thinks Disney would stick to the BiPOC and LGBQT ratios in their representation? Nobody? Now who thinks they will way over-represent LGBQT? Right...

---

You're gonna argue over 5%? Ok let's all pretend y'all would fine with all of of this if they'd just said 45%.

And I didn't take "several liberties". It was just basic math.

---

Take blacks out of it.

How do you align putting "many, many, many" gays into children's programming with the actual percent of gays in this country and not say that is propaganda or indoctrination?

---

My existence is not propaganda or indoctrination nor is including a character who has my sexual preference in a tv show or movie in the same way you would portray a heterosexual character.

---

Goodness this is obtuse.

It is absolutely propaganda to portray X as X+10 when you have something as politicized as the gay movement (by both sides). You are somewhere south of 10% of the population.

So, putting "many, many, many" gays in children's programming is propaganda and indoctrination by the left who effectively owns the entertainment industry.

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LGBT characters at a rate or 5-10% is hardly revolutionary, it's normal.

I asked above, what is an acceptable number of LGBT characters? If that answer is zero how can you can disagree with my post, that is exactly your point.

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Again, obtuse and avoiding the point.

So you are defining 5-10% as "many, many, many"?

Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

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This guy doesn't understand the chart.

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Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

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It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

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Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

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Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

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So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

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Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

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Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

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First, there's nothing analogous about human sexuality and favorite colors, so nice strawman. Second, you believe that sexuality is 100% genetic and that every sexual desire you ever have is predetermined?

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Its not a straw man at all. I'm pointing out that being gay is defined by your preference to the same sex. That's actually the definition. Are you saying a straight person isn't straight until the first time they have an interaction with someone of the opposite sex?

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Sexuality is defined by actions. Actions reflect values and preferences. If someone has desires toward the same sex, but chooses not to act on them they are 100% not gay. You are gay if you partake in homosexual behavior.

See my previous responses if you still don't get it.

ETA it is 100% a strawman. Favorite color and sexuality are not in the same universe code when it comes to decision making and human nature. Not to mention, nobody is "born with" a favorite color.

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I know you're just going to say the Oxford Dictionary is woke or misinformed, but it rightly defines homosexuality as , "the quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex."

Just as heterosexuality is defined as , " the quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of the opposite sex.."

I see why some people now seem to think it's a choice - that you're only gay if you choose not to act and as long as you don't act then you're not gay. I mean it's 100% wrong, but at least now I see where it stems from.

It's a choice.

alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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alans17 said:

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Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

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This guy doesn't understand the chart.

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Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

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It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

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Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought.

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So men that are attracted to men aren't gay unless they put the moves on one?

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Absolutely. You're defined by your choice of action. Not your internal thoughts. If I think about murdering someone, I am not a murderer.

Please explain how you could apply any other standard.

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Being LGBTQ is who a person is. It's like saying their favorite color is red. They don't have to go around licking stop signs to prove it.

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First, there's nothing analogous about human sexuality and favorite colors, so nice strawman. Second, you believe that sexuality is 100% genetic and that every sexual desire you ever have is predetermined?

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Its not a straw man at all. I'm pointing out that being gay is defined by your preference to the same sex. That's actually the definition. Are you saying a straight person isn't straight until the first time they have an interaction with someone of the opposite sex?

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Sexuality is defined by actions. Actions reflect values and preferences. If someone has desires toward the same sex, but chooses not to act on them they are 100% not gay. You are gay if you partake in homosexual behavior.

See my previous responses if you still don't get it.

ETA it is 100% a strawman. Favorite color and sexuality are not in the same universe code when it comes to decision making and human nature. Not to mention, nobody is "born with" a favorite color.

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I know you're just going to say the Oxford Dictionary is woke or misinformed, but it rightly defines homosexuality as , "the quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of one's own sex."

Just as heterosexuality is defined as , " the quality or characteristic of being sexually attracted solely to people of the opposite sex.."

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And how do you judge those? How do those characteristics manifest? Is someone who has 1 or even 10 gay thoughts in their life gay? What is the threshold of sexual feeling that must be reached to meet that definition?

This represents the entire issue with the notion that people are defined by their sexual desires and have no control over them. We have free will. We can choose which desires we act upon. We shouldn't define ourselves based on our basest appetites but rather based on how we act within a moral framework.

Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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A is A said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Kvetch said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Marcus Brutus said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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You think Gen X and elder millennials were drawn to being LGBTQ based on all the wonderful events and coverage of LGBTQ Topics in the 80's and 90's that we grew up with? Lol…

Your trend has a lot more to do with societal acceptance of people who were always there, not that media/exposure made us gay.

---

This guy doesn't understand the chart.

---

Uh no. Your hypothesis is that more people are LGBTQ because of "propaganda" - that's silly. Nobody saw the news re: LGBTQ people in 80's and early 90's and thought "that looks awesome"

---

It's a chart of people alive today. You're claiming older people still don't identify even in the current climate, yet Gen Z does because of the climate.

Illogical, which is par for you.

---

Well…the percentages of older LGBTQ people is also less because of a little thing called HIV/AIDS during 80s and 90s.

You don't think there are more closeted people from older generations today? You'd be wrong if you think closeted gays in their 50s+ are saying yes they are LGBTQ for a survey. I lied routinely in my 20's on a very confidential survey my large employer had annually on the minuscule chance it wasn't confidential.

If you're 55, married to a woman with kids, etc you're not going to out yourself for a survey. Your take is one of the dumbest I've read.

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To quote you, show me the study. Because the logic you're using doesn't account for the massive disparity in percentages between generations.

If you know anything about history, you know that there have been opulent societies that have encouraged sexual deviancy en masse. It definitely had an impact on self identification and behavior. Culture has a massive impact on sexual norms.

Also, married men with kids are not gay. Sorry if that contradicts your "born this way narrative," but homosexuality is defined by action not thought. We all have choice when it comes to sexual matters, and men who choose not to act on deviant sexual desires are by definition not homosexual. Free will exists.

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LGBTQ people have never been more accepted than today as far as the age of people in that survey are concerned.

That being said, nobody is choosing to be gay (can't speak for other people in the group) because it's in fashion or whatever you're alleging. First of all, you have to put up with attitudes like yours. Second, men are awful. We're trash. I'd much rather be attracted to women and god bless the straight ones for putting up with men.

Also LOL re: if you're married then you're straight. I can introduce you to more than I can count on my fingers and toes who did the whole straight thing and then came out - I even know some from my time at A&M I'm sure will be out soon enough. Picket fence guys, active in their church, whole lives looking picture perfect…queer as football bats coming out in 50s and 60s. I even know a guy who was a bishop in the Mormon church, they were told by the way until relatively recently to just marry a woman and you'd change.

You're aware we (gay men) have all the same parts straight guys do and that is not some impossibility to "complete" that act, right? Like many (maybe not most nowadays) have been intimate with women? It's not some major feat and still can be enjoyable.

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Was this intended to be proof of something?

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You say any man married to a woman with kids is straight, couldn't be gay. I tell you I know 20+ that disprove that and you're asking me for proof? Get a grip.

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I didn't say "couldn't be gay," I said they're not gay. Objectively speaking, theres nothing gay about a man with a wife. That's the definition of heterosexual. If he leaves his wife and engages in homosexual acts, then he's gay. This is the problem with the left.

This is the problem with the left and their insistence on identity groups. We are not defined by our internal desires. We are defined by how we act. Man is fallen and can feel all kinds of desires, but we also have the free will to chose not to engage.

If you don't think that a culture that encourages and adores LGBTQ dogma is going to have an impact on the decision making of those raised under those beliefs, there nothing left to say to talk about. You cannot possibly deny that exposure to new sexual ideas can influence our sexual thoughts and desires.

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Like I said, nobody chooses to be gay.

These men were always gay, they were just going through the motions.

I can't believe this is the type of dialogue people here think is best for the world, families, etc. Just live a lie - that's the best way to do life?

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Do you believe all of LGBTQ+ are born that way?

I just want this on record. Or is it just the LGs?

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Are you asking me if it's genetic? Science seems to indicate there are markers that may make it more likely, but not a specific gay gene. Seems there are environmental impacts too, like the link I listed above about having multiple older brothers.

I don't think people choose to be gay or straight.

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Like many other aspects of human nature, people may be born with proclivities one way or another, but it is ultimately a matter of free will. People can be born with addictive personalities, but it is still ultimately their choice to engage in activities that risk addiction.

That's why this issue is a moral question, not a physical one.

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I can't think of a single thing that's more moral about me pretending to be straight (feigning interest in a woman, marrying her, having a family, etc). Would all be a BIG lie.