slaughtr said:

---

I didn't know that.

---

Neither did I. The humalog my daughter uses is more in line with a poster above; roughly $900 for a 3 month supply (9 vials) until our deductible kicks in. Thankfully we were due to reorder and I might not have to actually purchase any until 2023.

Quips with no real argument. That's cute. Maybe you'll grow up someday and have an intelligent discussion like an adult. Or maybe not.

It's really very simple. Trump lowered it, Biden paused it, re-lowered it and took credit for it.

Jesus, dude.

Jmiller said:

---

---

Your chart shows the 2018 price of NovoLog at $0.36/unit. There are 1000 Units in a vial, for everyones information. Which is the $363/vial I mentioned earlier.

I can buy it TODAY for $0.03 per unit. The chart is not reflective of the cash price action that resulted from Trump's intervention.

KaneIsAble said:

---

slaughtr said:

---

I didn't know that.

---

Neither did I. The humalog my daughter uses is more in line with a poster above; roughly $900 for a 3 month supply (9 vials) until our deductible kicks in. Thankfully we were due to reorder and I might not have to actually purchase any until 2023.

---

Lilly did the same thing as Novo Nordisk, dropped prices to 3vials / $100.

Before the trump intervention is was slightly over $400/vial

annie88 said:

---

It's really very simple. Trump lowered it, Biden paused it, re-lowered it and took credit for it.

Jesus, dude.

---

If it is so simple then you should be able to explain it better than that. How did trump lower it? Where's the proof that it was lowered? The EO I referenced was not in effect.

Please don't being Jesus into the discussion. He's only a passive observer in this discussion.

You're killing me, Smalls

Here's a fun little fact.

Part of why many types of insulin cost so much it that it is incredibly difficult to produce and distribute. Many of the branded products listed on this thread have expired patents, but it is so expensive to produce, generic companies can't step in and manufacture a replacement.

Novo and Lilly don't even promote their pens anymore. Their focus is on GLP-1

Jmiller said:

---

You're killing me, Smalls

---

You're getting closer. Down to $0.11 per unit...

Keep digging, you'll get to $0.03 eventually....

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

Jmiller said:

---

annie88 said:

---

It's really very simple. Trump lowered it, Biden paused it, re-lowered it and took credit for it.

Jesus, dude.

---

If it is so simple then you should be able to explain it better than that. How did trump lower it? Where's the proof that it was lowered? The EO I referenced was not in effect.

Please don't being Jesus into the discussion. He's only a passive observer in this discussion.

---

Because Biden suspended it, good ****ing hell, bud.

It was to take affect in January 2021 but Biden stopped it. It is irrelevant that it wasn't in effect, it would have been. Now Biden is trying to make it sound like he brought this about. He's trying to sell this bull**** build back better crap as helping Americans when he's the one that stopped to help in the first place.

This is what Trump did in May 2020 that would've taken affect in January 2021. But because of president poopy pants, another year went by with people having to suffer. So now Biden is doing exactly what Trump did a year and a half later.

But for the record and what was out there at the time (May 2020):

Quote:

---

President Trump announced a prescription plan drastically reducing the cost of insulin for American seniors who rely on Medicare.

The deal struck with the nation's insulin manufacturers and health care providers limit the co-pay for a month's supply of insulin to $35 a 66 percent reduction to current costs…The initiative was unveiled during an event in the White House Rose Garden with Trump and the nation's health care executives.

The plan will be effective from January 2021

---

Here's what the piece of **** lied about:

Quote:

---

Biden touted the provisions after recounting tales of people rationing insulin or sharing their medicine with other diabetics. (Basically caused by Biden over the past year)

"Shame on us as a nation, we can't do better than this," Mr. Biden said. "It's enough. Enough. Nobody has held the manufacturers accountable until now."

---

Um, yeah, Trump did, A year and a half ago.

Jmiller said:

---

annie88 said:

---

It's really very simple. Trump lowered it, Biden paused it, re-lowered it and took credit for it.

Jesus, dude.

---

If it is so simple then you should be able to explain it better than that. How did trump lower it? Where's the proof that it was lowered? The EO I referenced was not in effect.

Please don't being Jesus into the discussion. He's only a passive observer in this discussion.

---

Jesus is not a passive observer, he's disgusted by this POS in the White House.

Biden will get his once he dies. You don't get to live your life being a liar, pervert, evil son of a ***** without paying for it. So there's that.

annie88 said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

annie88 said:

---

It's really very simple. Trump lowered it, Biden paused it, re-lowered it and took credit for it.

Jesus, dude.

---

If it is so simple then you should be able to explain it better than that. How did trump lower it? Where's the proof that it was lowered? The EO I referenced was not in effect.

Please don't being Jesus into the discussion. He's only a passive observer in this discussion.

---

Because Biden suspended it, good ****ing hell, bud.

It was to take affect in January 2021 but Biden stopped it. It is irrelevant that it wasn't in effect, it would have been. Now Biden is trying to make it sound like he brought this about. He's trying to sell this bull**** build back better crap as helping Americans when he's the one that stopped to help in the first place.

This is what Trump did in May 2020 that would've taken affect in January 2021. But because of president poopy pants, another year went by with people having to suffer. So now Biden is doing exactly what Trump did a year and a half later.

But for the record and what was out there at the time (May 2020):

Quote:

---

President Trump announced a prescription plan drastically reducing the cost of insulin for American seniors who rely on Medicare.

The deal struck with the nation's insulin manufacturers and health care providers limit the co-pay for a month's supply of insulin to $35 a 66 percent reduction to current costs…The initiative was unveiled during an event in the White House Rose Garden with Trump and the nation's health care executives.

The plan will be effective from January 2021

---

Here's what the piece of **** lied about:

Quote:

---

Biden touted the provisions after recounting tales of people rationing insulin or sharing their medicine with other diabetics. (Basically caused by Biden over the past year)

"Shame on us as a nation, we can't do better than this," Mr. Biden said. "It's enough. Enough. Nobody has held the manufacturers accountable until now."

---

Um, yeah, Trump did, A year and a half ago.

---

1) Trump was still President through most of January.
2) Trump didn't exactly lower it if his EO was never in effect.
3) The EO did not lower the cost of insulin or EpiPens for most Americans who use them. The EO only affected a small number of people on Medicare and Medicare Advantage that met the financial requirements.

AND TBF, Biden hasn't done **** because 'his bill' has not passed the Senate.

I see you caught a case of BDS.

Trump did not lower the price of insulin to 3 vials for $100. That's nutso talk. Never happened.

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

blacksox said:

---

Trump did not lower the price of insulin to 3 vials for $100. That's nutso talk. Never happened.

---

another taker?

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

---

No, the quote was for a vial totaling 1,000 units, but I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating again.

Your argument has been debunked. Time to move along.

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

---

No, the quote was for a vial totaling 1,000 units, but I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating again.

Your argument has been debunked. Time to move along.

---

It was on your screen grab 5 pens x 3ml.

But whatever, you are going with one 10ml vial @ $334 retail, $112 with coupon. This is for a single vial.

I guess we'll see.

Jmiller said:

---

I see you caught a case of BDS.

---

Well Biden is a piece of **** and has been for 48 years. Trump was one of the best presidents we've ever had in the history of our nation and everything was better due to him last year. So yeah I don't like Biden because he's literally turning our country into a **** hole.

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

---

No, the quote was for a vial totaling 1,000 units, but I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating again.

Your argument has been debunked. Time to move along.

---

It was on your screen grab 5 pens x 3ml.

But whatever, you are going with one 10ml vial @ $334 retail, $112 with coupon. This is for a single vial.

I guess we'll see.

---

You are right. The prescription setting were wrong. It's been corrected on this screen grab.


Walgreens, 1 vial, 1,000 units = $306.37. Far from 3 vials for $100, but closer to the price I was given by a Walgreens pharmacist.

ETA, the page says 10ml of 100 units, but I did confirm that 10ml is actually 1000 units, as you probably already know.

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

---

No, the quote was for a vial totaling 1,000 units, but I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating again.

Your argument has been debunked. Time to move along.

---

It was on your screen grab 5 pens x 3ml.

But whatever, you are going with one 10ml vial @ $334 retail, $112 with coupon. This is for a single vial.

I guess we'll see.

---

You are right. The prescription setting were wrong. It's been corrected on this screen grab.


Walgreens, 1 vial, 1,000 units = $306.37. Far from 3 vials for $100, but closer to the price I was given by a Walgreens pharmacist.

ETA, the page says 10ml of 100 units, but I did confirm that 10ml is actually 1000 units, as you probably already know.

---

Get used to saying that...

I get that there are people who need insulin to live.

I should pay for it?

Esteban du Plantier said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Esteban du Plantier said:

---

EMY92 said:

---

hedge said:

---

Quit eating sugar and bread

---

Fasting, my BG will go up 30 to 50 points per hour without any active insulin. No insulin and I'm dead in less than a week, even with no food.

---

If type 2 people controlled their blood sugar with diet, then overall demand would decrease and free up more for type 1, reducing cost for you.

---

You think insulin supply is low?

ETA Seriously, am I the only one who sees the absolute absurdity in this statement?

---

Price is a function of supply and demand.
If demand reduces, price will drop irrespective of supply.

---

First, let's ask ourselves, as we always should when using any model, "What are the assumptions here?" First and foremost for the supply/demand model is competitive markets. Another is that price elasticity for demand is less than 0. Both of these are violated by the market for insulin.


The main reason insulin is expensive is there is very limited market competition. There are only 3 US manufacturers, and no generics. Those three manufacturers tweak their insulin formulations or manufacturing process every so often to extend their patents, but there have been no significant changes in decades. There are also patents on inactive ingredients and delivery systems that further discourage generics. It is really a story about patent walls and regulatory hurdles keeping out competition. With how manufacturers negotiate with pharmacy benefit managers and insurers, diabetics of all types typically only have a single realistic option for insulin. Thus, the market is oligopolistic at best and monopolistic at worst.


Also, as stated by others, insulin is an absolute necessity for T1 diabetics. They have to pay whatever it costs or die, so demand from them is inelastic. Demand does not decrease with price increases. If T2 went away tomorrow, prices for T1 diabetics likely wouldn't change at all, and if anything would probably increase to offset the lost profit and revenue from T2's. After all, T1's don't have a choice.


Since some of the core assumptions of the classical supply/demand model are so egregiously violated, it doesn't really apply. T2's controlling their blood sugar through diet wouldn't free up anything for T1's and wouldn't lower costs for them.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Esteban du Plantier said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Esteban du Plantier said:

---

EMY92 said:

---

hedge said:

---

Quit eating sugar and bread

---

Fasting, my BG will go up 30 to 50 points per hour without any active insulin. No insulin and I'm dead in less than a week, even with no food.

---

If type 2 people controlled their blood sugar with diet, then overall demand would decrease and free up more for type 1, reducing cost for you.

---

You think insulin supply is low?

ETA Seriously, am I the only one who sees the absolute absurdity in this statement?

---

Price is a function of supply and demand.
If demand reduces, price will drop irrespective of supply.

---

First, let's ask ourselves, as we always should when using any model, "What are the assumptions here?" First and foremost for the supply/demand model is competitive markets. Another is that price elasticity for demand is less than 0. Both of these are violated by the market for insulin.


The main reason insulin is expensive is there is very limited market competition. There are only 3 US manufacturers, and no generics. Those three manufacturers tweak their insulin formulations or manufacturing process every so often to extend their patents, but there have been no significant changes in decades. There are also patents on inactive ingredients and delivery systems that further discourage generics. It is really a story about patent walls and regulatory hurdles keeping out competition. With how manufacturers negotiate with pharmacy benefit managers and insurers, diabetics of all types typically only have a single realistic option for insulin. Thus, the market is oligopolistic at best and monopolistic at worst.


Also, as stated by others, insulin is an absolute necessity for T1 diabetics. They have to pay whatever it costs or die, so demand from them is inelastic. Demand does not decrease with price increases. If T2 went away tomorrow, prices for T1 diabetics likely wouldn't change at all, and if anything would probably increase to offset the lost profit and revenue from T2's. After all, T1's don't have a choice.


Since some of the core assumptions of the classical supply/demand model are so egregiously violated, it doesn't really apply. T2's controlling their blood sugar through diet wouldn't free up anything for T1's and wouldn't lower costs for them.

---

Perfectly said. Thank you.

The bolded portion is what the government addressed. They basically said, listen manufacturers, you need to make this easily accessible or we are going to put the hurt on you via legislation. The manufacturers capitulated and all of a sudden the price dropped 11x. They avoided regulation and T1D's got their price break.

Again, thank you for very well written summary.

BS Economics, Texas

WHOOP!'91 said:

---

I get that there are people who need insulin to live.

I should pay for it?

---

Not necessarily. There are other fixes to the market problem, like sunsetting patents for manufacturers on a drug that has been around for almost 100 years and hasn't substantially changed in probably 25. There are only 3 manufacturers and a litany of roadblocks to generics, making the market uncompetitive. Remove the roadblocks and mage generics easier to bring to market and the price will lower itself. Until that happens, those 3 pharmaceutical companies will continue taking the Shkreli approach and gouging patients because they're the only supplier there is for a drug diabetics need to survive.

Jmiller said:

---

I see you caught a case of BDS.

---

Bless your little heart. Here is the difference between people who hate Biden and people who have TDS. People who have TDS are irrational and blame Trump for things he never did. They just hate the man and they don't care what good he did for the country. They literally make up **** that he never did

Those of us that hate Biden see the **** show he has pulled out the last 11 months, the horrible place he's put our country in, the lies, deception and basically everything the Democrats accused Trump of this man and his party has done.

Liberalism literally is a mental disease.

So hell yeah count me as one of those that hates this piece of *****

You have no idea what you are talking about. Sanofi began offering up to 10 vials (pens also available) per month for $99 for any of their insulins in 2019. They didn't do it out of benevolence. You can visit their product websites such as Lantus.com and confirm the terms of their program. That price is the cash paying patient price. For insured patients, their copay would be between $0 and $99.

slaughtr said:

---

I didn't know that.

---

It's Novolin R by Novo Nordisk. They also have an older patent basal that usually requires 2 doses a day. It's no 24hr Lantus, but it works in a pinch.

They seem to be offering a "generic" Novolog now for $73/vial but it requires a prescription.

Over the years, I've changed Insulin's multiple times, depending on the insurance. I've never noticed a difference.

As a counter (not to argue) we did before getting on a pump. We originally left the hospital with a Basalgar script but that actually wasn't even covered by our insurance. We went to fill the script and at the end of the day Lantus was what we left with. I'm not kidding, we fought lows for WEEKS before realizing we had to amend her fast acting as the Lantus was soooo much more effective.

Edit - I'm speaking about pens. Daughter was 5 at the time.

Any more high conviction bets on insulin pricing? I'm at Walgreens right now!

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

FratboyLegend said:

---

Jmiller said:

---

LOL, Okay. Can I have the # for the black-market pharmacist you use?

---

Its a smaller outfit, you may not have heard of it:

Walgreens Co.

NASDAQ: WBA

---

Walgreens charges $112 with free coupon, according to GoodRX, but rando internet guy knows better. LOL. Okay, buddy.

BTW, the cash price at my local Walgreens in CS, with no coupon, is $333.99

---

So this is the number you are going with?

I'd point out you were quoting pens totaling 4,500 units, but I'm sure you know that already.

---

No, the quote was for a vial totaling 1,000 units, but I'm sure you know that and are obfuscating again.

Your argument has been debunked. Time to move along.

---

It was on your screen grab 5 pens x 3ml.

But whatever, you are going with one 10ml vial @ $334 retail, $112 with coupon. This is for a single vial.

I guess we'll see.

---

You are right. The prescription setting were wrong. It's been corrected on this screen grab.


Walgreens, 1 vial, 1,000 units = $306.37. Far from 3 vials for $100, but closer to the price I was given by a Walgreens pharmacist.

ETA, the page says 10ml of 100 units, but I did confirm that 10ml is actually 1000 units, as you probably already know.

---

Three for me and one for you, bro.



Hope this helps.