***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

1,102,657 Views | 10330 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TRM
bonfarr
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AG
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
Ags4DaWin
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Are you seriously comparing Ukraine to Vietnam? I'm pretty sure the South asked us to be there because the North was a bunch of communists who tortured, raped, and murdered any dissenters. They wanted no part of unification under those terms.

From alot of first hand accounts the South Vietnamese were reluctant to fight for themselves. And alot of the South did NOT want us there. We should not have been there. We are not the world police

Afghanistan? The country that harbored and sponsored al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden? You get to invade when you're attacked in your own soil, even by proxy. Targetted strikes would have been more effective. ISIS, an organization Obama armed eventually took it over. bin Laden wasn't even THERE. While the afghanis may have been complicit, there was no tactical reason to go in when intel and a targetted strike on Bin Laden would have been mlre effective and cost fewer lives and dollara and not gifted billions in military equipment to a radical regime so they can either sell it to China to reverse engineer or use to oppress people

Iraq? The country that invaded its neighbor for its oil, then shot at US aircraft patrolling a UN no fly zone, sanctioned an assassination attempt on a former US President, and routinely tried to dupe and kick out UN weapons inspectors?
With the exception of the assassination Iran has done worse in regards to manufacturing WMD'S. So you want to invade Iran? Yeah, maybe we wouldn't have invaded if they'd stuck to their agreements instead of trying really, really hard to maintain the ability to restart their WMD programs the second anyone stopped looking. Let's not even go into all of the crimes and atrocities Saddam and his sons committed. Assad has done worse. You want to go into Syria too? If we have learned anything from the middle east its that we have tso choices in the middle east. Either Muslim radicals are gonna be in charge who will sanction and fund acts of terror against the west or we leave secular despots in power who will suppress thay nonsense by killing them off. Every "rebel group" we have armed over there have turned out to be muslim extremists that later tried to attack the west. Al Qaeda was a grouo the CIA armed in the 70's to "rebel" against the soviets. ISIS was armed by us to rebel against Assad. We have ****ed up so badly over there because we don't understand that its a **** culture where evweyone loses



Yeah. Totally the same thing as Russia trying to maintain a puppet government through money and influence and then rolling in with armor and artillery when a sovereign nation tells them they're not interested anymore. When we invade a country, it's because we're asked to be there or to protect our legitimate interests. And we leave billions of dollars in modern military equipment for radicals to use to oppress the native population. Russia has been annexing for decades.

But yeah, totally the same.


I am not saying Russia is not assho.

I AM saying every instance of US boots on the ground u mentioned was a collosal **** up and totally unnecessary.

Also, Ukraine has been the proxy payground for dirty US money for 2 decades.

Why do you think politicians are clamoring for unvetted and crazy amounts of support?

Is our aid moral?

More moral than anything u mentioned above.

The REAL question tho is WHY we are giving so much aid.
Rossticus
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Layne Staley
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AG
In seeing most of the footage it would seem like Ukraine is kicking the hell out of Russia. Its all you see is blown up Russian stuff. If so, why did Pelosi and the other Deep State goons actually travel there.

Doesn't Russia own the skies over the Ukraine? Did Putin sign off on this trip? If not, why didn't they get blown out of the Ukrainian skies.
Rossticus
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Same reason Russia didn't do it to any of the other heads of state (UK, Poland, Czech, Estonia, Latvia, France, Canada, etc.) that visited in addition to the UN Sec Gen. It would be seen as an attack on NATO and then Russia would be kicked out of Ukraine by the US and NATO in no time flat.

Additionally, their precision munitions capabilities are significantly lacking. Ukraine doesn't own their airspace by any stretch but there are but loads of various MANPAD platforms throughout combined with air defense surrounding Kyiv to significantly blunt ground attacks from air assets. Ukraine is certainly punching above their weight and outperforming all expectations. They have a great chance to succeed but this is still a slugfest and nothing is guaranteed.

If Russia was good enough to execute a successful precision air strike on the Kyiv city center without employing WMDs then they'd have taken out the Ukrainian government in the first week and this would all be over. Fact is that Russia just isn't that capable.
aezmvp
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Layne Staley said:

In seeing most of the footage it would seem like Ukraine is kicking the hell out of Russia. Its all you see is blown up Russian stuff. If so, why did Pelosi and the other Deep State goons actually travel there.

Doesn't Russia own the skies over the Ukraine? Did Putin sign off on this trip? If not, why didn't they get blown out of the Ukrainian skies.
Russia also doesn't own the air in the way most Americans are used to. In Iraq we wiped out their air force and traditional anti-air very quickly. Our weapons and systems to do so were significantly more capable and updated than what it appears the Russians have. Additionally Russia failed to do this. Now that they have withdrawn from their northern access, their ability to interdict in Kyiv and western Ukraine has dropped substantially.

Next those VIPs that are coming in are probably not flying directly into Kyiv. They're probably getting to secure points and either coming via vehicle or helicopter to the city.

As to why they are going, they're being shown up by all their European counterparts. It's hard to be a Serious International VIP if you can't keep up with Boris Johnson, Brussels and so forth.

So no, Russia doesn't own the air and didn't sign off on anything.
TRM
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AG
Rossticus
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Full Thread: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1522953282888609795.html

ABATTBQ11
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AG
I really, really hate Russia.
Rossticus
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ABATTBQ11 said:

I really, really hate Russia.


This will help you hate them a little more.

aggiehawg
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AG
Quote:

But the rhetoric of victory and of fighting Nazis, which has become gradually more twisted over the past two decades, also plays a role.

Of course, it takes a particular mindset to look at Russia's expansionist war, with the executions, targeting of civilians, filtration camps and harassment of dissidents at home, and come to the conclusion that it is the Ukrainians who are the Nazis.

But already for some years, the victory cult has been referred to by critics as pobedobesie, a derogatory play on the Russian words for victory and obscurantism "victorymania" is an approximate English translation.

As this pobedobesie metastasised year on year, the phenomenon took on forms that were ever more grotesque: schools put on performances in which the children dressed up as Soviet soldiers; people posing as captured Nazis were paraded through the streets. Ever more opponents of modern Russia were branded as Nazis, neo-Nazis or Nazi accomplices.
Quote:

These days, almost any interview with a Russian official about current events will contain references to the second world war. The foreign ministry tweets about the conflict almost daily. Putin's influential, hawkish confidant Nikolai Patrushev recently blamed the west for the rise of Hitler, and suggested today's western world (and their Ukrainian "puppets") are the true heirs to the Nazis.

"You should not be fooled by Anglo-Saxon respectability. Even a sharply tailored suit cannot hide hatred, anger and inhumanity," he raged.
Quote:

In modern Russian accounts of the Soviet war effort, inconvenient elements, such as the Nazi-Soviet non-aggression pact of 1939 and subsequent carving-up of Europe, or the internal deportation of whole ethnic groups by Stalin's regime during the war, are quietly ignored.

The image of "Nazis" has also become increasingly blurred. Russian history textbooks talk little about Hitler's politics, his rise to power, his antisemitism or the Holocaust. Instead, the main characteristic of "Nazis" is that they attacked the Soviet Union.

By this logic, all those who threaten modern Russia are also Nazis.
Quote:

This process has evolved gradually during Putin's long years in charge. In 2000, Victory Day came just two days after Putin's inauguration as president for the first time. Addressing a group of veterans, Russia's new leader explained the importance of the historical victory: "Through you, we got used to being winners. This entered our blood. It was not just responsible for military victories, but will also help our generation in peaceful times, help us to build a strong and flourishing country."
Quote:

But both the level of distortion and the pervasiveness of the discourse in Russia are unmatched anywhere else in modern Europe. Gradually, Victory Day has become less about remembering the past and more about projecting the might of Putin's new Russia. In 2008, the Victory Day parade featured heavy weaponry for the first time since the Soviet collapse. Three months later, Russia invaded Georgia.
Link

Russians be crazy.
Rossticus
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To put it mildly.
MaxPower
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Or they don't have any proxies capable of doing so…..
Rossticus
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BusterAg
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AG
The Debt said:

Rossticus said:

The Debt said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

Tucker Carlson is a blowhard moron who will take whatever polarized position gets him the most eyeballs. This is no different than his, "What has Putin ever done to us?" take where he's trying really hard to appear smart and "America first" to appeal to his base.

To some on the Left, they dont give a sht about Ukraine they want to punish russia for 2017-2020. They believed their own conspiracies and lay the blame of DJT on Putin.


Putin invaded Ukraine all on his own and started this war of his own volition. Nobody made him do it and it certainly wasn't started by libs wanting regime change.

There are plenty of Conservatives on board with enabling Ukraine to protect itself (Senate and House tell the tale) so to make this out as some sort of grand lib revenge scheme is intellectually lazy as ferk.

Nobody made him do it.




What about all of the raping, targeting civilians, and shelling apartment complexes just for fun, and looting people's homes, all condoned by the Russian military? I guess you think that's all OK, and when we do go to war with Russia, we should do the same to the Russian people?
74OA
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AG
Zalensky's speech in remembrance of the defeat of Nazism. Two parts. Much watch. (SIAP)
Pumpkinhead
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AG
Absolutely terrible situation for Ukraine but Putin wanted this, so I hope his country gets bled by Ukraine's fighters and a flood of international economic sanctions and NATO weapons & supplies until Russia is so weakened that it has to crawl back into its hole for at least a decade.
DeangeloVickers
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Rossticus
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I mean, no different than USO events of the past, when you think about it. Pretty big names did USO events during WW2, Korea, 'Nam., etc.
ABATTBQ11
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AG
Well thanks to their veterans they're about to be losers. Hopefully it becomes just as pervasive in their mindset.
ABATTBQ11
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AG
The lack of self-awareness is palpable
Rossticus
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A little late but I just saw it.

aezmvp
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MaxPower said:

Or they don't have any proxies capable of doing so…..
There are lots of people out there that could and would take a shot at someone with the right lever. I think there is a lot of chaos in the near future.
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Rossticus
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ABATTBQ11
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AG
Someone should tweet that to that stupid RWA account
rgag12
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AG
TRM said:




They really just need to demolish the entire thing. A monument to the Soviet's, the people who burned and raped your country in WWII? I think it's a little weird
LMCane
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Layne Staley said:

In seeing most of the footage it would seem like Ukraine is kicking the hell out of Russia. Its all you see is blown up Russian stuff. If so, why did Pelosi and the other Deep State goons actually travel there.

Doesn't Russia own the skies over the Ukraine? Did Putin sign off on this trip? If not, why didn't they get blown out of the Ukrainian skies.
they took the train
LMCane
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rgag12 said:

TRM said:




They really just need to demolish the entire thing. A monument to the Soviet's, the people who burned and raped your country in WWII? I think it's a little weird
considering it was in East Germany a part of the USSR Warsaw Pact it's not surprising.

but they probably should replace it with a "Thank you USA for Liberating Us!" park.
Jayhawk
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Rossticus said:





Maybe the rapacious hordes of scum-of-the-earth bolshevik rapists and murderers that comprised the actual Red Army just weren't photogenic enough for public display.
bonfarr
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AG
ABATTBQ11 said:

Someone should tweet that to that stupid RWA account


Doesn't Rebel E Infantry run that account?
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
JB!98
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AG
Jayhawk said:

Rossticus said:





Maybe the rapacious hordes of scum-of-the-earth bolshevik rapists and murderers that comprised the actual Red Army just weren't photogenic enough for public display.
They must have just gone to a WWII Marine website for those photos. Crazy, but their minions probably eat it up.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
Rossticus
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Came across this article from 2019. Once you get past the political bits and pieces (we all know how that turned out) the actual military factoids regarding US cooperation with Ukraine since 2015 is pretty interesting and supports the narrative of heavy integration of US weaponry and training into the Ukrainian military the past several years to steadily make them force more capable of defending themselves.

We can obviously see some of the fruit that has borne. Trump set a new precedent with his willingness to provide Javelins. Great call.

https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/09/25/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-us-aid-package-to-ukraine-that-trump-delayed/
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