***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Cepe • 1:08a, 5/3/22
AG
Cepe said:
Putin cancer surgery

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2022/05/02/whoa-putin-to-undergo-cancer-surgery-transfer-power-n466376


Would not shock me if he died and his replacement, supposedly an even bigger ***hole, pulled out of Ukraine. I would imagine there is a fair amount of dissension in the Russian government right now, and he may want none of it. It also wouldn't surprise me if the FSB were the ones giving away generals' positions to Ukrainian artillery to take out Putin loyalists and weaken the war effort as a way to get his political allies to turn on him.
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Rossticus
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 2:54a, 5/3/22
The guy set to replace Putin is supposedly the main advocate/architect of the war so I wouldn't bet on him pulling out.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Rossticus • 7:42a, 5/3/22
AG
I wouldn't bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised either. He could always scapegoat Putin to cover himself. This war is a strategic ****show that's blown up in their faces, and I'm sure a lot of people would like a way out.
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Rossticus
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 7:53a, 5/3/22
ABATTBQ11 said:
I wouldn't bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised either. He could always scapegoat Putin to cover himself. This war is a strategic ****show that's blown up in their faces, and I'm sure a lot of people would like a way out.


This is what makes me wonder. Hardliners seem to be gaining traction.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/29/russias-hardliners-present-their-manifesto-a77537
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Rossticus
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8:19a, 5/3/22
Something about history and repeating…





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The Debt
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In reply to Rossticus • 8:20a, 5/3/22
Thanks for exposing the Kennedys
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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 8:24a, 5/3/22
The Debt said:
Thanks for exposing the Kennedys


A Kennedy is the last person you'll find me standing up for.
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The Debt
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12:56p, 5/3/22





Theater....
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FamousAgg
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In reply to The Debt • 2:11p, 5/3/22
When you are facing death from a Russian bomb, COVID doesn't enter the picture.
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Rossticus
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3:25p, 5/3/22
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The Debt
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In reply to FamousAgg • 3:28p, 5/3/22
BattleGrackle said:
When you are facing death from a Russian bomb, COVID doesn't enter the picture.

Funny how making a personal cost-benefit analysis is acceptable based on geography.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Rossticus • 3:29p, 5/3/22
AG
Rossticus said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
I wouldn't bet on it, but I wouldn't be surprised either. He could always scapegoat Putin to cover himself. This war is a strategic ****show that's blown up in their faces, and I'm sure a lot of people would like a way out.


This is what makes me wonder. Hardliners seem to be gaining traction.

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/29/russias-hardliners-present-their-manifesto-a77537


Or attempting to double down?
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Rossticus
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 3:30p, 5/3/22
That's my thought.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Rossticus • 3:36p, 5/3/22
AG
Tucker Carlson is a blowhard moron who will take whatever polarized position gets him the most eyeballs. This is no different than his, "What has Putin ever done to us?" take where he's trying really hard to appear smart and "America first" to appeal to his base.
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The Debt
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 3:42p, 5/3/22
ABATTBQ11 said:
Tucker Carlson is a blowhard moron who will take whatever polarized position gets him the most eyeballs. This is no different than his, "What has Putin ever done to us?" take where he's trying really hard to appear smart and "America first" to appeal to his base.

To some on the Left, they dont give a sht about Ukraine they want to punish russia for 2017-2020. They believed their own conspiracies and lay the blame of DJT on Putin.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to Rossticus • 3:45p, 5/3/22
AG
I mean they're trying to dig in knowing that opposition is growing and they may be facing an internal coup, not necessarily that they're gaining traction internally. They're stoking fears and trying to whip up support to undermine any coup attempt while they wait it out for Putin's surgery. Once they have power, they can come back and say, "Oh, now we've gotten all of the real information and comrade Putin has been leading us all to our doom!" then back out of Ukraine while he's being arrested.
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FamousAgg
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In reply to The Debt • 3:47p, 5/3/22
The Debt said:
BattleGrackle said:
When you are facing death from a Russian bomb, COVID doesn't enter the picture.

Funny how making a personal cost-benefit analysis is acceptable based on geography.


I couldn't care less about peoples personal risk calculations regardless of their geography. That said most people have a very screwed view of risk in their lives. Having real risk in your life can bring that into perspective
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FamousAgg
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In reply to Rossticus • 3:49p, 5/3/22
Why do we have to devolve every issue into an attempt to dunk on the opposing party? I don't get it, and it comes from both sides…
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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 3:52p, 5/3/22
The Debt said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
Tucker Carlson is a blowhard moron who will take whatever polarized position gets him the most eyeballs. This is no different than his, "What has Putin ever done to us?" take where he's trying really hard to appear smart and "America first" to appeal to his base.

To some on the Left, they dont give a sht about Ukraine they want to punish russia for 2017-2020. They believed their own conspiracies and lay the blame of DJT on Putin.


Putin invaded Ukraine all on his own and started this war of his own volition. Nobody made him do it and it certainly wasn't started by libs wanting regime change.

There are plenty of Conservatives on board with enabling Ukraine to protect itself (Senate and House tell the tale) so to make this out as some sort of grand lib revenge scheme is intellectually lazy as ferk.
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The Debt
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In reply to Rossticus • 3:58p, 5/3/22
Rossticus said:
The Debt said:
ABATTBQ11 said:
Tucker Carlson is a blowhard moron who will take whatever polarized position gets him the most eyeballs. This is no different than his, "What has Putin ever done to us?" take where he's trying really hard to appear smart and "America first" to appeal to his base.

To some on the Left, they dont give a sht about Ukraine they want to punish russia for 2017-2020. They believed their own conspiracies and lay the blame of DJT on Putin.


Putin invaded Ukraine all on his own and started this war of his own volition. Nobody made him do it and it certainly wasn't started by libs wanting regime change.

There are plenty of Conservatives on board with enabling Ukraine to protect itself (Senate and House tell the tale) so to make this out as some sort of grand lib revenge scheme is intellectually lazy as ferk.

Nobody made him do it.

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Rossticus
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In reply to The Debt • 4:03p, 5/3/22
Your whataboutism is flaring up again.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to The Debt • 4:04p, 5/3/22
AG
Yeah... All vastly different situations, but please, continue with your Russia fellating false equivalencies.
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The Debt
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4:11p, 5/3/22
Unequal weights and measures.

The justification for America to violate a nation has been flimsy.

Btw "whataboutism" isnt about drawing distracting with comparisons, its changing the subject discussed entirely pointing to something fully dissimilar.

All you can do is deflect. "It's different when we do it" is not a moral highground.
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The Debt
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 4:14p, 5/3/22
ABATTBQ11 said:
Yeah... All vastly different situations, but please, continue with your Russia fellating false equivalencies.

Really vastly different eh? Explain to me how Cuba was different. We didnt want a USSR-friendly country so close to us.

Never mind I know the difference, the Bay of Pigs failed whereas Russia's "special operation" probably wont.
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GAC06
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In reply to The Debt • 4:19p, 5/3/22
AG
Stop deflecting, he said while deflecting
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The Debt
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In reply to GAC06 • 4:24p, 5/3/22
GAC06 said:
Stop deflecting, he said while deflecting

You really are arguing in bad faith

You people btch about "invasion," laying blood on Putin's hands. Yet you wont define the word because it would be a mirror reflecting upon your own complacency.

Just admit the US/west and Russia are both empires, we topple regimes, invade countries, and look to our own interests. It's not that hard to admit.

But you won't because it destroys the narrative that when Russia does it, its doubleplusbad.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to The Debt • 4:26p, 5/3/22
AG
Are you seriously comparing Ukraine to Vietnam? I'm pretty sure the South asked us to be there because the North was a bunch of communists who tortured, raped, and murdered any dissenters. They wanted no part of unification under those terms.

Afghanistan? The country that harbored and sponsored al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden? You get to invade when you're attacked in your own soil, even by proxy.

Iraq? The country that invaded its neighbor for its oil, then shot at US aircraft patrolling a UN no fly zone, sanctioned an assassination attempt on a former US President, and routinely tried to dupe and kick out UN weapons inspectors? Yeah, maybe we wouldn't have invaded if they'd stuck to their agreements instead of trying really, really hard to maintain the ability to restart their WMD programs the second anyone stopped looking. Let's not even go into all of the crimes and atrocities Saddam and his sons committed.



Yeah. Totally the same thing as Russia trying to maintain a puppet government through money and influence and then rolling in with armor and artillery when a sovereign nation tells them they're not interested anymore. When we invade a country, it's because we're asked to be there or to protect our legitimate interests. And we leave. Russia has been annexing for decades.

But yeah, totally the same.
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GAC06
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In reply to The Debt • 4:26p, 5/3/22
AG
I'm glad you are willing to admit Russia is the aggressor, trying to subjugate its neighbors.
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ABATTBQ11
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4:35p, 5/3/22
AG
And you wanna talk about, "but but but Ukraine did bad things in Donbas!" Yeah, that's Russian bull**** you've bought hook, line, and sinker. There wasn't anything wrong in Donbas until Russia started funding and training separatists to undermine the local governments and join Russia as satellite states. EVERYTHING here stems from Russia's expansionism and desire to control the former Soviet republics. For 100 years all of the conflict in that part of the world has been associated with Russia's expansionism and aggression. They just can't help themselves, and then they blame everyone else with their excuse du jour.
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Zobel
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4:37p, 5/3/22
AG
Yeah that's why Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba are all currently US territories.
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Jayhawk
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 4:48p, 5/3/22
ABATTBQ11 said:
Are you seriously comparing Ukraine to Vietnam? I'm pretty sure the South asked us to be there because the North was a bunch of communists who tortured, raped, and murdered any dissenters. They wanted no part of unification under those terms.

They sound like Russians.
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bonfarr
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5:04p, 5/3/22
AG
If there is a coup and the Russian Army withdraws how far do they go? Will they withdraw to the 2014 lines and would Ukraine accept that? Would they give up Crimea to end the war?

I wouldn't stop sanctions until they withdrew completely from Ukraine.
Disclaimer: Views expressed in this post reflect the opinions of Texags user bonfarr and are not to be accepted as facts or to be accepted at face value.
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Rossticus
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5:05p, 5/3/22

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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to bonfarr • 5:08p, 5/3/22
I'd hope, if that were the case, Ukraine would go on the offensive to take back their territory.

The separatists wouldn't be as strong without a unified Russia behind them
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Rossticus
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8:43p, 5/3/22
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