Unconfirmed (as of yet) reports of another mass surrender in Mariupol, the largest one yet. War reporters Sladkov & Pegov say that the remnants of two battalions surrendered, at least several hundred Marines.

— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) April 12, 2022

This Ivan right here is starting to tick me off. He is rooting so hard for Russia to win. It's sick.

Russians (and the Chinese, and half the world) are going to root for Russia and against whoever the US backs. No way around it.

As disturbing as things are now, just imagine how sickening it would be for the Third Reich to have emerged in the Information Age.

FriscoKid said:

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Unconfirmed (as of yet) reports of another mass surrender in Mariupol, the largest one yet. War reporters Sladkov & Pegov say that the remnants of two battalions surrendered, at least several hundred Marines.

— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) April 12, 2022

This Ivan right here is starting to tick me off. He is rooting so hard for Russia to win. It's sick.

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why wouldn't he be rooting for his country to win a war?!?

Germans wanted to win in two World Wars.
Confederates wanted to win a Civil War.
North Vietnamese wanted to win a civil war.

FriscoKid said:

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Unconfirmed (as of yet) reports of another mass surrender in Mariupol, the largest one yet. War reporters Sladkov & Pegov say that the remnants of two battalions surrendered, at least several hundred Marines.

— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) April 12, 2022

This Ivan right here is starting to tick me off. He is rooting so hard for Russia to win. It's sick.

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Lol what. It would be like us rooting for Iraq in 2003. Wake up and join the real world dude.

Can someone please END WaPo once and for all, already?

Big news, if you live in a NATO nation you've just been declared to be white by default. Including all you Turks. At least according to this cretin over at WaPo.#IntelligenceDiesInDC https://t.co/eQOCq7SyHz

— Patrick Fox (@RealCynicalFox) April 12, 2022

I read this differently than most. Zelensky's Govt. didn't want to allow the Germans to come in, make a pretense of solidarity, & virtue signal at the 11th hr after GE was one of the biggest RU client states & impediments to re-armament/supply/support to UA within NATO. https://t.co/h6w9ISKWAI

— Patrick Fox (@RealCynicalFox) April 12, 2022

This will be a secret ballot by the 54-nation ECOSOC which last year elected the Islamic Republic of Iran to the UN Women's Rights Commission.

Last week, UN chief @antonioguterres opposed expelling Russia from the Human Rights Council. What is his position on these two votes?

— Hillel Neuer (@HillelNeuer) April 12, 2022

On March 31st 1940, the Soviet Union annexed the Karelian Isthmus and Finland’s second-largest city Vyborg after a war of aggression.

The Finnish population was forced to leave and the city remains in Russian hands until today. pic.twitter.com/p4caEYOygC

— Visegrád 24 (@visegrad24) April 12, 2022

richardag said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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Then who is the emperor of NATO?

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Touch.
Touche
edit spelling stupid Apple autocorrect

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It was a stupid quip that the lemmings on this board nodded with.

A sole emperor is not neccessary to an empire. Plutocracies can, indeed, be an empire. A good example of this is the British empire, while there existed a monarchy, the real political head of the empire was the Bank of England, which wasnt nationalized as part of the government until 1946.

The sun never sat on the british empire, not because the monarch were pushing global conquest, but the plutocrats pushing across the seas. They would enlist the military response to enforce their trade, but it was seldom "guns first." And even when the guns were brought, there was a nod to the king, but the bidding of the bank/companies.

We followed the same model. Smedley Butler, a name you should learn, was a hero of the USMC. One of the most decorated marines in history. He specialized in central and south america and at the end of his career he recanted his "valor" expressing that he and his brothers bled and died for US business interests. There was no patriotism left in his heart when he saw that the Corp was exploited. The american empire has no emperor, but make no mistake, it is/was an empire.

Hell that word is in Texas, Our Texas. "O Empire wide and glorious, you stand supremely blest." wHo Is ThE eMpErOr Of TeXaS? sAm HoUsToN?

RebelE Infantry said:

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FriscoKid said:

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Unconfirmed (as of yet) reports of another mass surrender in Mariupol, the largest one yet. War reporters Sladkov & Pegov say that the remnants of two battalions surrendered, at least several hundred Marines.

— Russians With Attitude (@RWApodcast) April 12, 2022

This Ivan right here is starting to tick me off. He is rooting so hard for Russia to win. It's sick.

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Lol what. It would be like us rooting for Iraq in 2003. Wake up and join the real world dude.

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Stop the name calling (and Putin support)

Quote:

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It was a stupid quip that the lemmings on this board nodded with.

A sole emperor is not neccessary to an empire. Plutocracies can, indeed, be an empire. A good example of this is the British empire, while there existed a monarchy, the real political head of the empire was the Bank of England, which wasnt nationalized as part of the government until 1946.

The sun never sat on the british empire, not because the monarch were pushing global conquest, but the plutocrats pushing across the seas. They would enlist the military response to enforce their trade, but it was seldom "guns first." And even when the guns were brought, there was a nod to the king, but the bidding of the bank/companies.

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Really? That's the depth of your understanding?

Interesting edit...

Do you want me to get into the details? Ffs I'm dealing with people who think an empire necessitates an "emperor".

Quote:

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The sun never sat

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You find that interesting?

Pardonee moi

"Set"

Hawg. I typically like and respect you. But you're just being petty now.

FriscoKid said:

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I don't get it. You have been the most pro-Putin guy on this board and you've been dead wrong on all of your predictions up to this point. I could bump half a dozen quotes and you are batting close to .000 on them.

#1 is you laughing that Russia had lost 30-50k troops. (Turns out that was probably true)
#2 Zelensky needs to hurry up and surrender
#3 it's laughable to think that Russia won't just roll over Ukraine

You've been wrong with all of your predictions and you seem OK with the literal rape and murder of a sovereign nation. I don't get it and I don't understand why you are so hard up on Russia.

You are tripling down on Russia launching a "free, safe, and effective" invasion of millions of innocent people. Your judgement is a bit off on what's actually happening.

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Predictions are quite useless. The pro-ukrianian crowd was touching themselves to the idea that Russia was so inept they didnt have fuel or fuel past the 2nd sunday.

Ukr supporter "Look they are stealing food, they are going to starve LMAO #dieinvaders #isupportthecurrentthing"
Rational human being "maybe he wants to eat something other than MREs..."

I hear dog is a real delicacy in Russia. Welcome back sugar lumps.

The Debt said:

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Do you want me to get into the details? Ffs I'm dealing with people who think an empire necessitates an "emperor".

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Completely different than thinking negotiators are only negotiators if they're wearing suits.

I don't care if it's all a lie. It's funny AF.

"They were stealing toilet seats!"
Ukrainians detailing Russian bewilderment at flush toilets. pic.twitter.com/59C5kPCmpq

— Mr Ghostly (@Guardian_Mario) April 13, 2022

Be Russian soldier. Month into your 'training' exercise your convoy gets struck.
Coming out of a haze your vision focuses onto a rifle aimed at you.
Last thing you hear is "UwU what's this?!" pic.twitter.com/8FZOjW0EtD

— Mr Ghostly (@Guardian_Mario) April 13, 2022

I'll admit, I do have a blindspot. I do not have cable news. I dont know what many of yall are consuming.

But as an observer of these threads, I do find how interesting the diet of information is. For example, everything Russia is does is inept and/or evil, everything Ukraine does is brilliant and/or virtuous. That's not too shocking for a bias but the absence of true bad news for ukraine is very disturbing.

What I mean as bad news isnt "NATO wont institute a NFZ" that was just wishful thinking of a desperate faction. Ross et al are not posting the Ls for Ukraine. There is a reason Mariupol was decimated. It was the command center for the eastern front and the azov leadership. There was an estimate of 60k Ukrainian soldiers in Mari, and now it's down to roughly 3k, estimates of this afternoon. 57k killed or surrendered. And the 2000 ukr armor? Its gone. The "game-changing"air defense gifted from the Czechs? Destroyed in the last 36 hrs, before it was actively deployed.

I understand the us vs them, and the emotional draw. But when only one side is presented, it's never healthy. The bad news is marginalized and those who deliver it are demonized.

We cant have healthy dialogue on this board right now because of this wedge issue. Posters are throwing away relationships over this topic because a different opinion is a moral evil (a reality developed in the last decade or so.) I find that part fascinating because very few people on this board have a consistent war doctrine, thus comporting it to this current war.

Why is putin evil? "He kills journalists" Zelensky has disappeared opposition journalists, too. Why is Putin evil? "He imprisons political opposition" I got some bad news about Ukraine...

We have to realize eastern Europe is eastern Europe. No one is virtuous. The real underlying narrative here is critical theory, and you guys dont see it. Morally ukraine and russia are both dark grey. The difference is one is small and with a weak military, the other is large and has a strong military and nukes. The philosophical dynamic is oppressor/oppressed.

Once you see the conflict by those terms, you see why antifa types are not siding with "the commies" but siding with the "oppressed," even if the oppressed have ACTUAL DEATH SQUAD NAZIS who have engaged in ethnic cleansing.

This meta narrative has swept up conservatives as well. And many conservatives on this board are old enough to have lived the cold war. "The ruskies are at it again." And so they have picked sides based on the oppressor/oppressed dynamic, whether they realize it or not.

We, as a board and as a society, will not survive the social media age. It erodes the bonds of healthy discourse, and it makes society lie to itself.

Not posting "ukrainian causality numbers" results in the same type of vortex as the genderless left. Anyone who says bad things about Ukraine is "ivan" and anyone who denies the existence of 82 genders and fairytale pronouns is a transphobic troglodyte. Same sht, different topic.

GAC06 said:

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The Debt said:

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Do you want me to get into the details? Ffs I'm dealing with people who think an empire necessitates an "emperor".

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Completely different than thinking negotiators are only negotiators if they're wearing suits.

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It wasnt the suits, I'm glad you think that was the takeaway. But you missed the point. The ukrainians at the table did not have the authority. I explained the open phones on the table. The ukr representatives were warm bodies.

In fact, if you research the team of the first meeting. One of the Ukrainian reps from the first meeting has been executed for negotiating with Russia...ya know his job. Or the job you say he has.

Google Denis Kireev. Zelensky had him shot and thrown into the middle of Kiev. I guess he didnt have the authority to negotiate...only the puppetmasters on the phone have that ability.

I actually agree with most of what you said. I don't watch cable news, either. I'm trying to filter what I'm seeing through the lens of propaganda, which is being pushed by both sides. Ukraine obviously isn't going to talk much about their casualty numbers, but it's clear Russia isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information either. I tend to doubt more of what Russia says than what it's coming from Ukraine at this point.

It's cute you think the Russians present had authority to do anything except maybe accept a surrender. Keep the clown posts coming though, it's entertaining

The Debt said:

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GAC06 said:

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The Debt said:

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Do you want me to get into the details? Ffs I'm dealing with people who think an empire necessitates an "emperor".

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Completely different than thinking negotiators are only negotiators if they're wearing suits.

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It wasnt the suits, I'm glad you think that was the takeaway. But you missed the point. The ukrainians at the table did not have the authority. I explained the open phones on the table. The ukr representatives were warm bodies.

In fact, if you research the team of the first meeting. One of the Ukrainian reps from the first meeting has been executed for negotiating with Russia...ya know his job. Or the job you say he has.

Google Denis Kireev. Zelensky had him shot and thrown into the middle of Kiev. I guess he didnt have the authority to negotiate...only the puppetmasters on the phone have that ability.

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The Russians Putin sent had no authority either. Those dingleberries he sent to meet with the Ukrainians were nobodies with no power or authority to negotiate for anything. I'm sure they were authorized to accept full capitulation but that's about it.

It was a show. Why would you send someone serious if Putin isn't serious. Putin did, iirc, announce his representation first, prior to the Belarus meeting. That signaled his intent, or lack thereof, and it was noted publicly by quite a few folks as an indication that he wasn't at all invested in productive negotiations.

Great post.

I recently heard a somewhat dissident right wing commentator remark that this war has enabled the regime to pull back in a lot of the people it lost during covid, BLM, 2020 election, etc.

War propaganda works with astonishing effectiveness.

So the ivans are responding to each other thats cute.

Captain Positivity said:

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I actually agree with most of what you said. I don't watch cable news, either. I'm trying to filter what I'm seeing through the lens of propaganda, which is being pushed by both sides. Ukraine obviously isn't going to talk much about their casualty numbers, but it's clear Russia isn't exactly a trustworthy source of information either. I tend to doubt more of what Russia says than what it's coming from Ukraine at this point.

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Not an unreasonable position.

But I look at it this way: The Russians could be lying to me, in fact they probably are about most things. BUT I know for a fact that the western media parroting Ukrainian propaganda and talking points have been lying to me nonstop about pretty much everything for my entire life. Why in the world would I believe them now?

Except that every conservative and centrist I talk to still thinks that Biden has done a ****e job and support Ukraine separately from him. I've seen no evidence that anyone, apart from those who would have voted for Biden regardless of circumstance, have developed any positive feelz for him over this. In fact, it's reinforced most folks' perception of him as a bumble****.

But maybe there are just a ton of morons out there I'm not interacting with.

They can think what they will of him, but so many people who became very strong skeptics over the last 2 years or so bought the war propaganda hook, line, and sinker. To the point where many are more or less in lock step with the regime on this issue.

Captain Positivity said:

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Pretty much everything you said about NATO, the US, empires, etc. can be equally applied to Russia if not more so.

I've done my best to attempt to understand where Russia is coming from and what their mindset is. However, their rhetoric and actions inside of Ukraine don't seem to be the actions of a country trying to defend itself or defend its sphere of influence. Ukraine was nowhere near joining NATO, even if they wanted to. Putin's ranting speech at the start of the invasion signaled something much more. Many inside Russian leadership don't seem to believe Ukraine or Ukrainians have a right to exist independently at all.

This, to me, is why the war was unjustified. If you were going in there to defend ethnic Russians from bad acts on the part of Ukrainian soldiers, there are ways to do so without indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian infrastructure such as hospitals. Leveling entire cities like Mariupol just can't be justified.

Putin's track record sort of speaks for itself here.

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This is fair.

However I would argue that, other than the social media mob, many would argue that Russia has been very intentional in avoiding civilian deaths. To what extent Mari was leveled is still a debate. The ukr leadership were in the steelworks, an industrial district. If they have destroyed it and residential zones were adjacent, that's no crime. Not by international standards, nor US ROEs. If they just said, burn the city and sow salt into its soil...that's possibly a war crime, but who will prosecute that? The city fathers of Hiroshima?

As to the right of Ukraine to exist, the map of ukraine is the same problem of the ME and africa. They do not reflect the demographics of the geography. The russian majorities in the south and east maybe shouldn't have been lumped in with the mixed central ukrainians nor the 90%+ Ukrainian eastern provinces.

But here is the question, why wouldnt kiev let Luhansk and Doneskt leave? If it's such a headache and its filled with 90% russians, why demand they stay? Nay, why force them by threat of violence to stay?

If any Russian adjacent countries have Russian-majority provinces, this should quicken them to say "its been fun, we give you independence, kthxbai."

But kiev has been filled with anti-Russians. The brutalization of ukrainian citizens (who are russian) plays into the ideology of the western Ukrainian. Stepan Bandera is a hero to ukrainians, and the desire to kill russians existed since before the iron curtain collapsed.

I suggest y'all google Bandera. You will start to understand the ideology of kiev. You will also understand why Poland isnt as hot on helping kiev as you would think. Their aid is not for the good of Ukraine it is for self-preservation. (Full disclosure, of the three countries, I like the Poles most.) Bandera led a Polish genocide, and Poland has been anti modern kiev since they posthumously awarded Banders the "Hero of Ukraine" honor. It's hard to let bygones be bygones when kiev honors an ethnic-cleansing fascist. But that is the political presupposition of western ukraine.

People on this board say "well azov only got 2% in the election" but nazism is very tolerated and celebrated in deep ethic Ukrainian territory.

RebelE Infantry said:

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They can think what they will of him, but so many people who became very strong skeptics over the last 2 years or so bought the war propaganda hook, line, and sinker. To the point where many are more or less in lock step with the regime on this issue.

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Here's the thing. It seems that you may have already decided that all information pertaining to Ukraine that doesn't come from a Russian source is necessarily a lie. Is this accurate or are there other sources of information that you'd at least be willing to analyze?