The Debt said:

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aggiehawg said:

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But now russia invades a country (mind you they did so preemptively from Kiev amassing forces at the border of luhansk and Donetsk) and they are supremely unjustified.

Not a single one of you will condemn Victoria Nulands involvement in 2014, because again we can violate sovereign nations at will, and without it even appearing on the radar of our national conscious. We have become so desensitized to our hands covered in blood, that a coup in ukraine is S.O.P.

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Now you have a contradiction. 2014 has nothing to do with 2022. Russia seized Crimea in 2014.

And who amasased forces where and when? Do some homework on that.

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Hawg, I'm sure you believe the only geopolitically significant event in the US for 2020 was coronavirus, yes? There is no way two important events can happen in the same year...like say a US election.

While Crimea did happen in 2014, there was this other wittle event called the "Revolution of Dignity" whereas our state department deposed the sitting leader of Ukraine and even forged a government-in-waiting once the coup was successful.

While you are correct, Crimea had little to do with 2022, you forget that foreign interference in ukraine has precipitated ukraine's western leanings toward nato.

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When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

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The first documentation concerns the coup itself, which occurred in February 2014, though the narrator in that video mistakenly says (at 0:27) that the coup started "on February 20th of 2013," instead of on February 20th of 2014, which is the only slip-up in this entire otherwise-superb presentation. The video is here, and it demonstrates it even displays that the U.S. Government, under President Barack Obama, lied through their teeth about that coup, as having been instead a "revolution," instead of a coup. The key "leaked [phone] call" that's excerpted in this video can be heard in full here; and its full transcript, including explanations of the persons who are being referred-to in it, is available here. The broader historical significance of that phone-call is reported and explained here. To sum it all up: There is no way that this phone-conversation (which is between two Obama-Administration officials who are discussing whom to appoint to lead Ukraine when the coup will have been completed) can reasonably be interpreted in any other way than that the Obama Administration had carefully planned and executed this coup d'etat, which replaced Ukraine's democratically elected Government by one that would be controlled by the U.S. regime.

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The Ukraine-Russia conflict is now in its most dangerous phase since it began in 2014 after the Western-backed overthrow of the Ukrainian government. Statements by Russian leaders and the Russian military build-up along Ukraine's borders suggest that the danger of a significant escalation in the Donbas is real.

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Clearly, Victoria Nuland, U.S. President Barack Obama's central agent overseeing the coup, at least during the month of February 2014 when it climaxed, was crucial not only in overthrowing the existing Ukrainian Government, but in selecting and installing its rabidly anti-Russian replacement. The 27 January 2014 phone-conversation between her and America's Ambassador in Ukraine, Jeffrey Pyatt was a particularly seminal event, and it was uploaded to youtube on 4 February 2014.

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The second landmark item of evidence that it had been a coup and nothing at all democratic or a 'revolution', was the 26 February 2014 phone-conversation between the EU's Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton and her agent in Ukraine investigating whether the overthrow had been a revolution or instead a coup; he was Estonia's Foreign Minister, Urmas Paet, and he told her that he found that it had been a coup, and that "somebody from the new coalition" had engineered it but he didn't know whom that "somebody" was.

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So what you're telling me is that the Ukrainian peoples' desires and actions themselves had nothing to do with 2014?

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How much money did Hunter take from Russia and China?

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Captain Positivity said:

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Do you think the American Revolution was a coup sponsored by France? Does this make it invalid?

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Captain Positivity said:

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Thanks for the semantics lesson. Now, actually defend your point.

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Just leave this here: https://t.co/bqdA1nCnZN

— Slawek Zam (@SlawekZam) April 10, 2022

Eliminatus said:

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The Debt said:

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So what you're telling me is that the Ukrainian peoples' desires and actions themselves had nothing to do with 2014?

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Which ukrainians? By your logic America supported Bidens election...it was legal and "popular".

The people of eastern Ukraine, the ethnic russian ukrainians, have been tortured, shelled, and raped. Reporters have been disappeared. Opposition leaders have been jailed. And blind people in the US say "well they had free and fair elections."

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And who told you that ethnic Russians have been tortured, shelled, and raped? You weren't there. The news? Ok. Sure. But what makes the news wrong now??

Face it. You are removed from this. Just like the rest of us. You cannot stand there and tell us we are wrong because our info is propaganda when yours is as true and pure as the driven snow. It's not.

No, you have to pick a side to believe, based off your bias. It truly is as simple as that. I chose mine. Based off the world events as they are occurring and historical data collected from multiple Russian incursions. You chose your side, the Russians. Based off of their reporting and other nebulous blogs and tweets for like minded individuals.

Ukraine isn't perfect. But you whiplash away from their perceived evils that you lap up like a starving puppy, that you embrace the very evils you thinking you are veering away from. I hope you can see that someday. I truly do.

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It was only when he returned after the Russians pulled out of Kyiv that Mr. Shepitko discovered just how far the Russian soldiers had gone. His house had been ransacked, filled with rubbish and beer bottles. Then, in a cellar under the garden shed, his nephew discovered the body of a woman. Slumped sitting down, bare legs akimbo, she wore a fur coat and nothing else.

She had been shot in the head, and he found two bullet casings on the ground. When the police pulled her out and conducted a search, they found torn condom wrappers and one used condom upstairs in the house.

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The abuse of the woman was one case of many, said Ukraine's official ombudswoman for human rights, Lyudmyla Denisova. She said she had recorded horrific cases of sexual violence by Russian troops in Bucha and other places, including one in which a group of women and girls were kept in a basement of a house for 25 days. Nine of them are now pregnant, she said.

She speculated that the violence came out of revenge for the Ukrainian resistance, but also that the Russian soldiers used sexual violence as a weapon of war against Ukrainian women.

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willtackleforfood said:

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I may have missed this in previous discussion, why are Ukrainian forces burning Ukrainian citizens from their homes? What is the strategy here? Are these accounts truthful?



And Ukraine shelling Ukranians, for 8 years? Is this to prevent civilians assets from falling into Russian hands 8 years in advance?

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The Russian Federation consists of eighty-five "federal subjects," or constituent parts, of which twenty-two are republics named after non-Russian ethnicities. Russia has over190 ethnicities, and many of them live in remote locations like Siberia and the Caucasus region.

Why would they secede? For two main reasons: economic and cultural.

Today's Russia, like the Soviet Union before it, is not an economic success. Russia is a middling economic power with a GDP about the size of Spain or Texas. Its GDP per capita is even less impressive:

In the 2020 World Bank index, Russia ranks eight-fifth, between Bulgaria and Malaysia.

Alexei Kudrin, a former deputy prime minister and finance minister, and perhaps the most influential Russian economist, argued in a 2018 interview that Russia may fall apart just like the USSR if "the Russian leadership will not get rid of the Soviet mentality."

Among the risk factors he named were oil dependency, sanctions, restricted access to technology, labor shortages, and low labor productivity.

Many of the republics and regions have closer ties with other countries than with Russia. They feel they get little to no benefits from the central government in Moscow that they view as corrupt and inept.

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The other major motivation is cultural. Russia expanded from its European core mainly through wars of conquest, most of them long and bloody. It maintained its rule through terror, often resettling populations in faraway lands.

The Russian state is obvious about the centrality of its Slavic culture and about the privileged role of the Russian Orthodox Church, a key supporter of the regime (the head of the church called the Putin era a "miracle of God"). This does not sit well in many republics with non-Russian and non-Christian majorities.

But there is more to it. Today's rulers in the Kremlin do not have the mystical appeal of the czars who ruled Russia since the 1500s, who were viewed by many to be the anointed of God and successors of the emperors of Constantinople, the Eastern Roman Empire. Nor can they make the inspiring (even if fraudulent) claim of the Communists that they rule for the benefit of the downtrodden.

The peoples of Russia know that Putin and his oligarchs, indeed the whole power elite, are former Soviet bureaucrats who got fabulously rich by looting the country. The Putin regime has no unifying ideology beyond defending Russia against a presumed hostile West.

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In some cases, Putin himself has set in motion the forces of national disintegration by claiming that Russia can occupy Ukraine and Crimea because they "historically" belonged to Russia. Following that logic, several republics and territories could declare independence because historically they did not belong to Russia.

The semi-autonomous Russian enclave of Kaliningrad was only acquired by the Soviet Union from Germany in 1946. It is sandwiched between Poland and Lithuania, both EU countries, and has no border with Russia. The Republic of Karelia (600,000 people), neighboring Finland, was acquired by Stalin after his 1940 war of aggression against Finland.

Other republics have tried to be independent before.

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The Caucasus republics, occupied in the nineteenth century, have Muslim majorities, are ethnically distinct from the Russians, and have borders with other countries. The Chechen Republic (1.2 million people) fought a determined and bloody war of independence in the 1990s.

The Chechens may be joined in an independence claim by other neighboring Caucasus republics including Dagestan (2.5 million people), Ingushetia (300,000), and Kabardino-Balkaria (900,000). A Mountainous Republic of the Northern Caucasus existed between 1917 and 1922 as a country formed by Circassians, Chechens, Ingush, Ossetians, and Dagestanis.

Neighboring Mongolia and China is the Republic of Tuva (250,000 people mostly of Mongol descent) which was annexed by the Soviet Union in 1944. Next to Tuva is the Republic of Khakassia (500,000 people mostly of Kyrgyz descent) that was incorporated in the 1700s.

In the Volga region is the Republic of Tatarstan, home to two million ethnic Tatars and 1.5 million ethnic Russians. It declared its independence in 1917, 1990, and again in 2008. It was an independent khanate conquered by Ivan the Terrible in the fifteenth century.

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This would be a clear violation of Article II Section E of the Genocide Convention of 1948.https://t.co/0ORyl6BnPm

— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) April 11, 2022

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Then who is the emperor of NATO?

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Rossticus said:

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This would be a clear violation of Article II Section E of the Genocide Convention of 1948.https://t.co/0ORyl6BnPm

— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) April 11, 2022

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No Spin Ag said:

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Rossticus said:

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This would be a clear violation of Article II Section E of the Genocide Convention of 1948.https://t.co/0ORyl6BnPm

— Timothy Snyder (@TimothyDSnyder) April 11, 2022

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F"king inhumane POS.

And to think there are people in the U.S. that think highly of him. Pathetic.

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Full English translation: pic.twitter.com/WJzuD0zIRS

— Yuriy | Ukraine_DAO (@garbanzo0813) April 12, 2022