***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

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Rossticus
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4:00a, 2/21/22
I can't believe they actually may be going through with it. Those Russian *******s…. C'mon Putin. You've had your fun. Pull. The. Plug.

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Rossticus
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4:22a, 2/21/22
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flakrat
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In reply to Rossticus • 6:46a, 2/21/22
AG
They'll be placed in the most vulnerable positions, I bet.
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K2-HMFIC
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6:53a, 2/21/22


The Russians are missing the point that quantity of false flags doesn't equal quality of false flags.
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K2-HMFIC
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6:57a, 2/21/22


False Flag Fail.
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Rossticus
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7:05a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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7:07a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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7:08a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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7:12a, 2/21/22


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Rossticus
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7:14a, 2/21/22


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Rossticus
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7:16a, 2/21/22
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aezmvp
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In reply to Rossticus • 7:19a, 2/21/22
Rossticus said:




This one is all over and is a bad sign.
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Rossticus
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7:22a, 2/21/22
Excerpt from BBC report:

"Government officials are also scrambling to keep up with what they describe as a torrent of fake news from the Russian-backed side. This morning a gruesome video which purported to show a child dismembered by a Ukrainian shell began circulating. An official accused separatists of taking corpses from morgues and blowing them up to stage this.

Another purported to show an alleged Ukrainian attack on a Russian border checkpoint. A Ukrainian official tells me that shells haven't landed on Russian territory for the entire eight years of this war."
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LMCane
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In reply to Rossticus • 7:39a, 2/21/22
Rossticus said:
Looks like they really are intent on lying their way into a war. This is complete, shameless, evil, Nazi level bullisht. Holy isht. Anyone who would actually do this has no limits other than what they think they can get away with. Hopefully he pulls the plug.



It's now Nazi to lie your way into a war?!! I'm a Republican and voted twice for bush but were you saying this back in 2003 when we invaded a country half way around the world based on false intelligence?
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Rossticus
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In reply to LMCane • 7:41a, 2/21/22
LMCane said:
Rossticus said:
Looks like they really are intent on lying their way into a war. This is complete, shameless, evil, Nazi level bullisht. Holy isht. Anyone who would actually do this has no limits other than what they think they can get away with. Hopefully he pulls the plug.



It's now Nazi to lie your way into a war?!! I'm a Republican and voted twice for bush but were you saying this back in 2003 when we invaded a country half way around the world based on false intelligence?


Yes. That was Nazi. I hated it then and I hated it now. I'll never forgive Bush for getting us into that and killing our people over our own false flag debacle. It was wrong in innumerable ways.
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Irish 2.0
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7:55a, 2/21/22

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La Bamba
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In reply to Jayhawk • 7:57a, 2/21/22
AG
Jayhawk said:
La Bamba said:
Ok, at the risk of sounding like a completely uninformed dunce and just having started doing a bit of research on the topic, can someone explain to me what the benefit would be, from the Russian perspective, to invade Ukraine?

Yes, I somewhat understand the historical and cultural ties of the Donbas region to Russia, and I also understand the NATO creep eastward/security risk aspect. But Russia is a state and economy built on one thing: oil and gas. And their primary customer is the European continent. Why would they risk severing ties with their biggest customer for a "buffer" zone? If NATO really wanted to send nukes to Moscow, I doubt they would need to station a military base in Ukraine. Is this all just about Putin's projection of power and where he sees himself in the history books 50 years from now? I just don't see the gain being greater than the cost from the Russian perspective. Maybe someone can explain better.
It's tough to put yourselves in the shoes of other cultures and think strategically because the question of what is important and why will be different. Closest analogy would be, imagine if the USA lost the cold war, subsequently was broken up and humiliated, and then an independent Texas (culturally important area to overall American identity) is flirting with the idea of joining the Warsaw Pact. It would perhaps bring into question whether there is any such thing as the USA or America at all, at least as something more than an appendage to the global world order (or "international community as its styled in western media).

Basically, Ukraine is the birthplace of Russian culture and a major economic engine of the Russian empire and Soviet Union since before the time of the first Romanov. From a Russian nationalist's point of view, if Russia cannot assert itself over the Ukraine, is there then any longer such thing as Russia as we understand it?

That's my best stab at it.

A lot of the online right is inundated with Russian influence operations and so youll hear a lot of propaganda about "its like missiles being stationed in Mexico " etc but its not that straightforward. It's deeper than that in my opinion.
I have a hard time buying the strategic importance of Ukraine from a cultural perspective to Russia. Then again, I'm an engineer with very little friends, so maybe I just don't personally put a ton of value into that.

I can buy more of the NATO buffer and regional influence card than the cultural one. And to my question about what Russia has to gain versus the cost of this whole ordeal, the video below maybe helped me out with that (I'm not sure how the F16 Foreign Policy experts feel about VisualPolitik). But it argues that it has 4 trump cards that has put Russia in a position to make this noise 1) Re-vamped military 2) Increases in national reserves versus debt 3) Having Europe (especially Germany) by the balls in terms of natural gas, energy costs and keeping its citizens from turning into icicles and 4) It's alliance with China to keep its economy going in the case of Western sanctions (as China is commodity hungry and Russia is a commodity-driven economy). I guess a #5) would be that Russia doesn't seem to value it's citizen's economic prosperity and dispensable income as much as it does a return to national prominence for the state. Typical authoritative nation state policy I suppose. But from what I get from all of this is that Russia simply wants a return to the big boy table and it feels like it finally has the cards in its hands to do so.

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Irish 2.0
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8:01a, 2/21/22

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BenFiasco14
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 8:02a, 2/21/22
AG
Of course
CNN is an enemy of the state and should be treated as such.
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Irish 2.0
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8:02a, 2/21/22


NATO...It is all about the NATO acceptance
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Irish 2.0
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8:03a, 2/21/22


Just sharing the notes from the Russian meeting going on.
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aezmvp
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 8:04a, 2/21/22
Whelp. That's a bright red line. I don't think Ukraine takes the bait even if Russia recognizes them. I don't think that will matter however.
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Irish 2.0
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8:06a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 8:06a, 2/21/22
Irish 2.0 said:


NATO...It is all about the NATO acceptance


No. It's all about discrediting NATO and getting a legal document renouncing possibility of Ukrainian membership. Once he has that he moves ahead with destabilization and destruction of the country.

Do you really trust that Putin, if given a guarantee that Ukraine is on its own, wouldn't devour it?

He'd laugh, do what he wants to do anyway and then everyone clamoring for this would pivot and decry the weakness and gullibility of EU/NATO/Biden in the face of Putin's 4D chess.
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Irish 2.0
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8:07a, 2/21/22
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Irish 2.0
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In reply to Rossticus • 8:09a, 2/21/22
Rossticus said:
Irish 2.0 said:


NATO...It is all about the NATO acceptance


No. It's all about discrediting NATO and getting a legal document renouncing possibility of Ukrainian membership. Once he has that he moves ahead with destabilization and destruction of the country.

Do you really trust that Putin, if given a guarantee that Ukraine is on its own, wouldn't devour it?
I think the sanctions would stop him. Just because they deny Ukraine NATO membership doesn't mean they'll let Putin walk in and take over the country
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Rossticus
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 8:09a, 2/21/22
He's willing to do it in the face of sanctions right now. Why wouldn't he do it then? I'm not saying it's a given but damn I don't trust that *******.
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Irish 2.0
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8:09a, 2/21/22

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Irish 2.0
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8:13a, 2/21/22
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Irish 2.0
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8:14a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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8:14a, 2/21/22


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Irish 2.0
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8:16a, 2/21/22
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Irish 2.0
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8:16a, 2/21/22
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Rossticus
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8:16a, 2/21/22
Reading between the lines of what's being told to the west and what's being said in-country… this is a set-up.

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Irish 2.0
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8:19a, 2/21/22
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