***** OFFICIAL Russia v. Ukraine *****

1,066,301 Views | 10330 Replies | Last: 2 yr ago by TRM
YouBet
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From WSJ today. Talks to continue/back on.

Quote:

Russia will extend its military drills with Belarus because of rising violence in Ukraine's Donbas region, the government in Minsk said, as Russian President Vladimir Putin accepted a new round of talks with Kyiv amid warnings of an imminent Russian invasion.

Mr. Putin and French President Emmanuel Macron said after speaking on Sunday that they agreed to continue seeking a diplomatic solution. Russia has amassed as many as 190,000 troops on Ukraine's borders, including some 30,000 for exercises in Belarus that were slated to end Sunday. Moscow demands that Kyiv abandon its aspirations to join NATO and give Russian proxies a major say in Ukraine's future.

Mr. Macron said that Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany will resume talks in the so-called Normandy format based on proposals presented by Kyiv in recent days. He and Mr. Putin agreed on the "necessity to favor a diplomatic solution to the crisis, and to do everything to achieve it," according to the French account of the conversation. French and Russian foreign ministers are slated to meet in coming days, while other consultations will take place in Paris, the French account said. German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is separately scheduled to speak to Mr. Putin on Monday, according to a German official.

Mr. Macron also spoke with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky after Sunday's talks with Mr. Putin, his second conversation with the Ukrainian leader in two days. The French leader commended Mr. Zelensky on his "composure and his determination to prevent escalation."

The Kremlin, in its statement Sunday, blamed Mr. Zelensky for refusing to implement the so-called Minsk agreements that ended major combat in Donbas in 2015, and thatin Moscow's interpretationcould give Russian proxies a significant say in Ukraine's new setup, potentially halting the country's alignment with the West.

Still, the Kremlin said Mr. Putin agreed to "intensify the search for solutions through diplomatic means," including by holding another meeting on the Minsk accords between the four nations' senior advisers in the Normandy format. While the first such meeting in Paris in January led to some progress, the second in Berlin earlier this month ended in failure.
Gordo14
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Just some Russian Warships and amphibious vehicles entering the Sea of Azov under a NOTAM - nothing to see here. Obviously just part of Joe Biden's conspiracy. Definitely NATOs fault Russia is doing this.

It's looking likely we're within 24 hours of this starting unfortunately. Maybe then some of you will stop trusting Russian propoganda over the free world.
aggiehawg
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What does NOTAM mean?
Demosthenes81
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aggiehawg said:

What does NOTAM mean?
Notice to Airmen or Notice to Air Missions

Watch out for itchy trigger fingers.
Seven and three are ten, not only now, but forever. There has never been a time when seven and three were not ten, nor will there ever be a time when they are not ten. Therefore, I have said that the truth of number is incorruptible and common to all who think. — St. Augustine
CharlieBrown17
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SFC to unlimited is my kind of party


Notice to airmen
Sully Dog
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Meh, this video reminds me of how we called up the USS Missiouri and all the amphibous landings we practiced before the envasion of the first Gulf War.

How many of these leaked videos are Russian Counter Intel?
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
K2-HMFIC
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Notice To Air Missions
CharlieBrown17
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Demosthenes81 said:

aggiehawg said:

What does NOTAM mean?
Notice to Airmen or Notice to Air Missions

Watch out for itchy trigger fingers.



Ehhh this one is but 99.9% of notams are very dull.

Usually taxi way lights out or unlit obstacles on the field etc
K2-HMFIC
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YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
aggiehawg
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So what is the Notice supposed to entail? Not an actual deployment?
K2-HMFIC
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aggiehawg said:

So what is the Notice supposed to entail? Not an actual deployment?


Basically civilian traffic needs to keep out.

They don't want another MH17.
aggiehawg
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Thanks.
Jock 07
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Pretty good rundown on where we're at and how we got here by Tom cotton.

Sen. Tom Cotton: Biden administration signaling weakness, hesitancy to Putin

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6298227374001


GAC06
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A typical reason is if they're going to be firing missiles. Or if they expect resistance and want to avoid murdering a plane load of innocent people again.
aggiehawg
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GAC06 said:

A typical reason is if they're going to be firing missiles. Or if they expect resistance and want to avoid murdering a plane load of innocent people again.
I see.
YouBet
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K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
Well, maybe the Ukrainian President and many others are running a reverse psychology counter op by asking him to publicly shut up then.

We will probably never know.
Jock 07
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aggiehawg said:

So what is the Notice supposed to entail? Not an actual deployment?


One of the reasons NOTAMs get published is to signal rocket/missile/space launches.
K2-HMFIC
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YouBet said:

K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
Well, maybe the Ukrainian President and many others are running a reverse psychology counter op by asking him to publicly shut up then.

We will probably never know.


The Ukrainian President has moved on and basically acknowledged they are going to fight the Russians alone.

Jock 07
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But but but Europe sent some helmets and mres
GAC06
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Germany sent helmets. Baltic states and the US sent hundreds (prob thousands) of anti tank missiles as well as stingers and other stuff
K2-HMFIC
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Jock 07 said:

But but but Europe sent some helmets and mres


Germany has FINALLY come around…and taken this MORE seriously.

But the Baltics, Poles, Nordics, and Brits didn't kcuf around, they were sending lethal aid the entire time.
YouBet
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Well, yeah, now that it looks inevitable.
GAC06
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YouBet said:

K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
Well, maybe the Ukrainian President and many others are running a reverse psychology counter op by asking him to publicly shut up then.

We will probably never know.


Ukraines president and defense leadership have been doing a balancing act. Trying to calm and reassure his country and preserve the economy while outwardly calling out Russias mobilization, asking for military aid, and begging for security assistance.
Jock 07
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GAC06 said:

Germany sent helmets. Baltic states and the US sent hundreds (prob thousands) of anti tank missiles as well as stingers and other stuff

And hopefully continues if/once the missiles start flying. Make those ****ers bleed, like we did in Afghanistan.
YouBet
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GAC06 said:

YouBet said:

K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
Well, maybe the Ukrainian President and many others are running a reverse psychology counter op by asking him to publicly shut up then.

We will probably never know.


Ukraines president and defense leadership have been doing a balancing act. Trying to calm and reassure his country and preserve the economy while outwardly calling out Russias mobilization, asking for military aid, and begging for security assistance.
Yes. Agreed. And I'm sure that's been hard to do with Biden stumbling all over himself on more than one occasion.
GAC06
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I know how this forum feels about NBC news but here's this.
K2-HMFIC
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Bud…I know you're not a fan of the Biden Admin…but there pushing the Intel has been the right call.

It's boxed the Russians in, killed their strategic surprise, probably ended their ability to pull of a tactical surprise, brought the alliance together, and set the conditions for massive economic sanctions.

Could we have done without Biden making comments about "little incursions" or done more to reassure NATO Allies? Sure.

But this has been a major info op win for the US.

Moreover, it sure as tihs signals to the Chinese that we can do some serious tech stuff when we want to.
GAC06
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K2-HMFIC said:

Bud…I know you're not a fan of the Biden Admin…but there pushing the Intel has been the right call.

It's boxed the Russians in, killed their strategic surprise, probably ended their ability to pull of a tactical surprise, brought the alliance together, and set the conditions for massive economic sanctions.

Could we have done without Biden making comments about "little incursions" or done more to reassure NATO Allies? Sure.

But this has been a major info op win for the US.

Moreover, it sure as tihs signals to the Chinese that we can do some serious tech stuff when we want to.


I wish I could star this more than once
K2-HMFIC
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Thanks bud.
YouBet
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K2-HMFIC said:

Bud…I know you're not a fan of the Biden Admin…but there pushing the Intel has been the right call.

It's boxed the Russians in, killed their strategic surprise, probably ended their ability to pull of a tactical surprise, brought the alliance together, and set the conditions for massive economic sanctions.

Could we have done without Biden making comments about "little incursions" or done more to reassure NATO Allies? Sure.

But this has been a major info op win for the US.

Moreover, it sure as tihs signals to the Chinese that we can do some serious tech stuff when we want to.
[puts tin foil hat on]

Considering the utter incompetence of this administration, they were probably forced to do this because of Biden's very commentary. If it ends up being successful, they have stumbled into the right call and not because they were strategic about it. IOW, broken clock outcome.

[/removes tin foil hat but is pretty confident he's right]
Dan Scott
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Richard Engel is a decent international journalist. He has cred
K2-HMFIC
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YouBet said:

K2-HMFIC said:

Bud…I know you're not a fan of the Biden Admin…but there pushing the Intel has been the right call.

It's boxed the Russians in, killed their strategic surprise, probably ended their ability to pull of a tactical surprise, brought the alliance together, and set the conditions for massive economic sanctions.

Could we have done without Biden making comments about "little incursions" or done more to reassure NATO Allies? Sure.

But this has been a major info op win for the US.

Moreover, it sure as tihs signals to the Chinese that we can do some serious tech stuff when we want to.
[puts tin foil hat on]

Considering the utter incompetence of this administration, they were probably forced to do this because of Biden's very commentary. If it ends up being successful, they have stumbled into the right call and not because they were strategic about it. IOW, broken clock outcome.

[/removes tin foil hat but is pretty confident he's right]


Fair enough…at this point I'll take what we can get if it avoids this conflict expanding outside of Ukraine.
rangerdanger
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I think you're forgetting that the Democrats are masters of weaponizing both social and news media. Would not call these leaks incompetence at all.
Sully Dog
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GAC06 said:

Germany sent helmets. Baltic states and the US sent hundreds (prob thousands) of anti tank missiles as well as stingers and other stuff
live look at the german helmets

%3Fv%3D8CE3D172718D6A0&f=1&nofb=1
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
Sully Dog
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K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

K2-HMFIC said:

YouBet said:

Not sure if Russia is going to do a full-scale invasion or not but Biden has absolutely agitated this situation and made it worse. We can argue if that was intentional or not, but he has made it worse purely from his own incompetence.


The Western government's publicly pushing the intelligence that anticipated Russian moves has undercut Russian strategic surprise and unified the alliance.

It probably hasn't deterred conflict but it has set the conditions for a peace in our favor.
Well, maybe the Ukrainian President and many others are running a reverse psychology counter op by asking him to publicly shut up then.

We will probably never know.


The Ukrainian President has moved on and basically acknowledged they are going to fight the Russians alone.


I wonder if Zelenskiy is wishing he had given more information to Trump
Deplorable Neanderthal Clinger
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