aginresearch said:

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I disagree. A number of states have significantly tightened election laws and procedures. We all just watched a slow motion take down of the Democrats in Virginia. In New Jersey the Democrats seemingly imploded overnight.

If Democrats could steal any election then why didn't they do it in Virginia? It's not like they were caught by surprise. In fact you could see them panicking in Virginia in the weeks leading up to the election. They certainly weren't acting like people who could dial up cheating to win an election. They acted like a party that knew they were losing and that it was slipping away.

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good question. The Trump maga movement mobilized in Virginia in a way that was unprecedented. We signed up and became leaders at many of the voting stations in the state. And we swamped all the heavily democrat voting stating with poll watchers like never before. We were scanning for wifi. And we had the democrats in a bind. This is documented. it really pissed the democrats off. Can we pull that off in every state, or at a miniumum, the 6 big swing states where the most fraud was committed when they shut down for the night? I don't know. We did it in Virginia.

It's a LOT harder to get away with if the candidate is genuinely appealing and not patently offensive to many otherwise decent, persuadable voters.

I get that you like Trump. I do, too. But you have to recognize his unique and very serious flaws as a candidate.

Keegan99 said:

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It's a LOT harder to get away with if the candidate is genuinely appealing and not patently offensive to many otherwise decent, persuadable voters.

I get that you like Trump. I do, too. But you have to recognize his unique and very serious flaws as a candidate.

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I like desantis too. And believe me, he will be quite offensive to many if he is the nominee. I think people forget just how disgusting the msm democrat propaganda machine can truly be. They will do to Desantis what they did to trump. They hated trump so much because he fought back, unlike bush or romney mccain. So they went harder after trump. However, Trump's willingness to fight back is what endeared him to so many and galvanized his base. Take that away, and the base will see just another limp wristed politician. And the msm will eat him alive.

Oh, and I see his flaws. I also see the flaws in all the others. Everybody has flaws. If you disqualify trump or desantis based on their flaws, then don't bother running a candidate at all. Besides, Trump's flaws are part of what made him what he is. And how he was able to withstand the onslaught that others would have wilted under. Just look at mccain and romney. They were weak and they had flaws that the msm were able to jump on. They wilted.

Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

Keegan99 said:

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Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

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If you are saying this comparing him to a smooth talking politician, I agree. No arguments on that. However, I think you are dismissing that this same quality also endeared him to many that would never have given the gop a thought. This runs both ways.

Great. He's opened their eyes and brought them in to the tent.

But look at Virginia. Youngkin won with those voters - he absolutely crushed it in rural, blue collar areas - and with the suburbs that Trump fails to deliver.

Keegan99 said:

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Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

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Trumps election results make it very clear that he is popular regardless of your personal opinion.

I have an opinion that 81 million did not vote for Biden. Fortunately, I am not going to argue with random posters over it. Much like you should not.

Maybe you should go back the Coronavirus Board and talk about vaccinating 5 year olds instead of telling people that you are more civilized than a past politician...that still gets more votes than you.

Keegan99 said:

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Great. He's opened their eyes and brought them in to the tent.

But look at Virginia. Youngkin won with those voters - he absolutely crushed it in rural, blue collar areas - and with the suburbs that Trump fails to deliver.

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Trump campaigned for him. If he was so toxic, would that not have had an effect. Not only that, how do you know that these voters have not had their eyes opened and they grasp the lies they were told, were, well, lies?

Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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they didn't vote for stupid. But a bunch of fake ballots did. Dead people did, Non existent addresses did. People who no longer resided in said districts and states did.

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I believe there was tremendous fraud in this election. Those involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. Leadership in the states must strengthen laws, especially with regard to legislative oversight and mail-in ballot verification and handling, so that the mess of the last election cycle does not happen again.

This being said, I am not surprised Trump lost. As a nation, we have a template for how the POTUS should behave in the public sphere. That template, passed down from generation to generation and from citizen to newly-arrived immigrant, is George Washington.

You can have excellent policies. You can have real achievements both domestically and in foreign affairs. You can even, as Trump did in his time in office, do things for minority achievement and unemployment that no President has ever been able to do.

But if you fail to comport yourself in a Presidential manner on a regular basis, then you are hurting yourself and your prospects for reelection.

I voted for Trump twice and would easily vote for him again. The policies should have taken precedence over the personality. The accomplishments should have been given much heavier weight by the voting public.

But gravitas matters. Like it or not, Americans in general want their President to behave in public settings as our first POTUS did in his time in office.

Did they get 81,000,000 votes? No chance in hell and those who had a hand in the fraud, from Boockvar to those idiots in Maricopa County should be given a taste of jail time.

But I could see Biden winning the non-fraud segment of the election because of the failed coup against Trump and in part because Trump's public behavior distracted from what was a highly-successful first term.

If Trump returns for a Grover Cleveland-style run, then we need more discipline out of him and more focus on his policy achievements as contrasted against the complete and total disaster of the Biden Administration.

Stlkofta said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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they didn't vote for stupid. But a bunch of fake ballots did. Dead people did, Non existent addresses did. People who no longer resided in said districts and states did.

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I believe there was tremendous fraud in this election. Those involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent the law allows. Leadership in the states must strengthen laws, especially with regard to legislative oversight and mail-in ballot verification and handling, so that the mess of the last election cycle does not happen again.

This being said, I am not surprised Trump lost. As a nation, we have a template for how the POTUS should behave in the public sphere. That template, passed down from generation to generation and from citizen to newly-arrived immigrant, is George Washington.

You can have excellent policies. You can have real achievements both domestically and in foreign affairs. You can even, as Trump did in his time in office, do things for minority achievement and unemployment that no President has ever been able to do.

But if you fail to comport yourself in a Presidential manner on a regular basis, then you are hurting yourself and your prospects for reelection.

I voted for Trump twice and would easily vote for him again. The policies should have taken precedence over the personality. The accomplishments should have been given much heavier weight by the voting public.

But gravitas matters. Like it or not, Americans in general want their President to behave in public settings as our first POTUS did in his time in office.

Did they get 81,000,000 votes? No chance in hell and those who had a hand in the fraud, from Boockvar to those idiots in Maricopa County should be given a taste of jail time.

But I could see Biden winning the non-fraud segment of the election because of the failed coup against Trump and in part because Trump's public behavior distracted from what was a highly-successful first term.

If Trump returns for a Grover Cleveland-style run, then we need more discipline out of him and more focus on his policy achievements as contrasted against the complete and total disaster of the Biden Administration.

---

Obama completely destroys this template you speak of. Many other 2 term president were as well. Again, you want a president who fits your template? Fine. But he will never be able to take on the swamp. You will get a nice guy who bends over when told and is just part of the same good ol boy's club. Enjoy being Australia in 20 years.

Clinton had an affair in the oval office with a cigar. JFK was banging Marylin Monroe, but he was a damn good president. Being presidental is overrated and not a prerequisite. If you are a Christian you know King David was a turd. But he was what God needed at that time and what the people needed. He was anything but presidential. If presidential is your requirement, we are well on our way to being a fully socialist country.

For the Republicans to win going forward they have to get more than a majority of Independent votes.

They did this is Virginia.

As much as I personally love Trump and his in your face attitude, he carries a 70% unfavorable rating with independents.

Trump might win but the margin would be razor thin and there's a very good chance he would lose.

DeSantis beats Biden or whoever the Dem candidate is handily.

As others have pointed out Trump is undisciplined and continuously does things that turn off suburban women and independents. His totally unneeded criticism of Colin Powell the day after Powell died is just the most recent example that Trump hasn't learned a damn thing since he's been out of office.

I love the guy but he's too old and too polarizing to count on.

Give me DeSantis or even Pompeo.

SA68AG said:

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Give me DeSantis or even Pompeo.

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Pompeo has no chance. At this point, it is DeSantis' race to lose, assuming Trump reads the tea leaves and decides to remain a cheerleader from the sideline

aginlakeway said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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Keegan99 said:

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If Trump is the candidate in '24, then the election once again becomes a referendum on Trump, not a referendum on the current regime.

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You truly think the democrats will not make it about that or whomever runs? the left never focuses on issues, never has. Democrats will simply take their lies and run with it. They have plenty on desantis and florida to make their same case that they make against trump. I think too many are extremely naive about what the democrats will do and how they will do it.

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Trump is uniquely divisive, and does nothing to dispel that perception.

He's an undisciplined, easy target. There are millions of otherwise persuadable voters that simply will not vote for him.

The entire 2020 election was a referendum on Trump. Biden didn't even campaign. He just let Trump run against Trump. And here we are.

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We are where we are because our system allowed a fraudulent election to go forward. The system has not been fixed. If the establishment is given a choice, they will make sure the person they want in wins. They know they can get away with it.

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Then why didn't they win in Virginia?

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Too many eyes watching only one state? I believe they cheated like hell and Youngkin won by way more than what the final tally was, but when only one major election (NJ wasn't thought to close so wasn't as big a focus by most) is going on I don't think they could pull their "shut down the count, board up the windows" stunt they pulled a year ago.

evestor1 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

---

Trumps election results make it very clear that he is popular regardless of your personal opinion.

I have an opinion that 81 million did not vote for Biden. Fortunately, I am not going to argue with random posters over it. Much like you should not.

Maybe you should go back the Coronavirus Board and talk about vaccinating 5 year olds instead of telling people that you are more civilized than a past politician...that still gets more votes than you.

---

LOL WHAT?!

Anyone claiming there is a need to vaccinate children is insane.


But that does being up another shortcoming of Trump: His inability to command facts. He routinely makes statements that are flat out wrong. Again, it makes him an easy target.

agcrock2005 said:

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aginlakeway said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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Keegan99 said:

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If Trump is the candidate in '24, then the election once again becomes a referendum on Trump, not a referendum on the current regime.

---

You truly think the democrats will not make it about that or whomever runs? the left never focuses on issues, never has. Democrats will simply take their lies and run with it. They have plenty on desantis and florida to make their same case that they make against trump. I think too many are extremely naive about what the democrats will do and how they will do it.

---

Trump is uniquely divisive, and does nothing to dispel that perception.

He's an undisciplined, easy target. There are millions of otherwise persuadable voters that simply will not vote for him.

The entire 2020 election was a referendum on Trump. Biden didn't even campaign. He just let Trump run against Trump. And here we are.

---

We are where we are because our system allowed a fraudulent election to go forward. The system has not been fixed. If the establishment is given a choice, they will make sure the person they want in wins. They know they can get away with it.

---

Then why didn't they win in Virginia?

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Too many eyes watching only one state? I believe they cheated like hell and Youngkin won by way more than what the final tally was, but when only one major election (NJ wasn't thought to close so wasn't as big a focus by most) is going on I don't think they could pull their "shut down the count, board up the windows" stunt they pulled a year ago.

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People are not paying attention. Trump and the MAGA movement had a massive wave of poll watchers come in and sign up for the Virginia race. It was unprecedented. They were at all the democrat polling stations and were monitoring everything, including the wifi networks. the democrats complained massively on the msm about all the Trump supporters who had taken their places in the voting stations/polling stations. It was a complete turn around in people. How do so many people not know this?

Keegan99 said:

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evestor1 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

---

Trumps election results make it very clear that he is popular regardless of your personal opinion.

I have an opinion that 81 million did not vote for Biden. Fortunately, I am not going to argue with random posters over it. Much like you should not.

Maybe you should go back the Coronavirus Board and talk about vaccinating 5 year olds instead of telling people that you are more civilized than a past politician...that still gets more votes than you.

---

LOL WHAT?!

Anyone claiming there is a need to vaccinate children is insane.


But that does being up another shortcoming of Trump: His inability to command facts. He routinely makes statements that are flat out wrong. Again, it makes him an easy target.

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How is that different than any other president, or regular citizen, for that matter. I could do a simple google search and bring up a plethora of videos of obama flat out lying. Again, if this is your criteria, then every politician not name Trump should be disqualified first.

Keegan99 said:

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evestor1 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Trump did it to himself. He's uniquely crude and undisciplined.

He makes it far, far too easy.

---

Trumps election results make it very clear that he is popular regardless of your personal opinion.

I have an opinion that 81 million did not vote for Biden. Fortunately, I am not going to argue with random posters over it. Much like you should not.

Maybe you should go back the Coronavirus Board and talk about vaccinating 5 year olds instead of telling people that you are more civilized than a past politician...that still gets more votes than you.

---

LOL WHAT?!

Anyone claiming there is a need to vaccinate children is insane.


But that does being up another shortcoming of Trump: His inability to command facts. He routinely makes statements that are flat out wrong. Again, it makes him an easy target.

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I am shocked that there are three posters dumb enough to blue star your dumb post.

One of you libs explain who in the hell you are going to run for POTUS in 2024?

They used COVID to prop up the scarecrow will never happen again.

No way Biden runs again and Bernie will NEVER be POTUS

Kamala? - Laughable

AOC? She'll be lucky to hold her current seat, Brooklyn has had enough of her crap. If she goes after Schumer she will be torched, Schumer has the Manhattan machine behind him.

You know the left is going to try and push another woman into the white house, but who do they really have? Nobody.

The have set the house on fire and fired all the Firemen for not taking a shot.

The left is done for a cycle or two. over a dozen house members are retiring, they left is going to lose both houses. Pelosi is gone, and is going to take her millions and run.

Look, if you can't discern the difference between a typical politician playing loose with the truth and Trump just bulldozing reality, then I don't know what to tell ya.

(Watch DeSantis cite studies, reference data, and demolish reporters with facts. Trump can't do that. And if he tried, he'd fail. DeSantis is like a Ben Shapiro / Trump hybrid.)

The bottom line is Trump completely alienates otherwise persuadable voters that are necessary to win elections.

The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

sicandtiredTXN said:

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One of you libs explain who in the hell you are going to run for POTUS in 2024?

They used COVID to prop up the scarecrow will never happen again.

No way Biden runs again and Bernie will NEVER be POTUS

Kamala? - Laughable

AOC? She'll be lucky to hold her current seat, Brooklyn has had enough of her crap. If she goes after Schumer she will be torched, Schumer has the Manhattan machine behind him.

You know the left is going to try and push another woman into the white house, but who do they really have? Nobody.

The have set the house on fire and fired all the Firemen for not taking a shot.

The left is done for a cycle or two. over a dozen house members are retiring, they left is going to lose both houses. Pelosi is gone, and is going to take her millions and run.

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The party needs to do a 180 and beg for Tulsi's forgivemess, and then run her. Otherwise the R's need to find a cabinet position for her.

Keegan99 said:

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The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

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Maybe in your bubble

Keegan99 said:

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The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

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What? A reasonable and obvious post here on Forum 16? No way.

(You are absolutely correct...and the folks that can't see that are blind).

Tex117 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

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What? A reasonable and obvious post here on Forum 16? No way.

(You are absolutely correct...and the folks that can't see that are blind).

---

Agreed, he is extremely polarizing but largely due to the media negatively going after him nonstop for about 6 years now. Sure he tweets and says some dumb things but the media is 80 percent the reason he is so polarizing. The media has too much power and has made him out to be a villain.

Keegan99 said:

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Look, if you can't discern the difference between a typical politician playing loose with the truth and Trump just bulldozing reality, then I don't know what to tell ya.

(Watch DeSantis cite studies, reference data, and demolish reporters with facts. Trump can't do that. And if he tried, he'd fail. DeSantis is like a Ben Shapiro / Trump hybrid.)

The bottom line is Trump completely alienates otherwise persuadable voters that are necessary to win elections.

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I disagree that he is that polarizing. If you cite numbers that are from flawed polls, sure, you can get anything that will say that. But again, even if he is polarizing, he brings in people that otherwise would not be voting gop. that is just a fact. You could lose those blue collar people if Trump steps aside and they believe the party is going back to what it was. I know I will. There will be no difference between the gop and the democrats, other than talking points. Once they get into office, same old stuff. They will play the game and it won't matter who is in.

If you think trump is polarizing and you do not think ben shaprio is just as polarizing, then I dont know what to tell you either.

And again, people seem to not be grasping that to deal with this swamp it will take a polarizing or hard fighting figure. A figure who will be able to absorb, but also give back, all the crap that he takes.

Like it or not, Trump was able to bring in these blue collar workers specifically because he stood up and fought for them like a common man. Too many people believe they can now just take those people for granted. You do so and you will lose that base and you can say goodbye to any gop president again. If Trump goes all in with desantis, maybe it will work. But if he is just dismissed, the gop is dead.

If a non polarizing guy who is statesman like and make people like him was all it took, Romney would be president. But people hated him. Nobody was excited for that and his fakeness was obvious.

Tex117 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

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What? A reasonable and obvious post here on Forum 16? No way.

(You are absolutely correct...and the folks that can't see that are blind).

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How is it reasonable to state a hypothetical as a fact. Biden is in office only because of fraud. No way he received more votes than obama. I could just as easily say that the democrat party is so polarizing that the gop could run anybody they want and win. Look at the numbers. They are that polarizing.

The fact is that the msm is who made Trump polarizing to people. Not trump. Trump could work on his approach and his delivery. Sure. But the msm can demonize anybody. And they did that with Romney, Mccain, and even bush. But that is ignored.

The folks that can't see that must be blind. Right?

IDaggie06 said:

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Tex117 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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The left could run whoever they wanted in '24 if Trump is the nominee.

Then the election would once again become a referendum on Trump. His negative numbers are through the roof.

He's that polarizing.

---

What? A reasonable and obvious post here on Forum 16? No way.

(You are absolutely correct...and the folks that can't see that are blind).

---

Agreed, he is extremely polarizing but largely due to the media negatively going after him nonstop for about 6 years now. Sure he tweets and says some dumb things but the media is 80 percent the reason he is so polarizing. The media has too much power and has made him out to be a villain.

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Exactly, and they will do that to anybody they are told to do it to. You think it was a coincidence that the msm had the exact same talking points daily on every single outlet on how to attack the President? They were simply spouting their narrative given to them by the establishment, (including many gop members) and the democrats. They will do it again if they have to, no matter the candidate, if they consider him or her to be an outsider. And if they have a particular person they want to win, they will go after the other person, even if they are both establishment. It is all a big scam. Trump was the outlier. The outsider. They could not stand for that.

When a republican furniture delivery driver unseats the President of the New Jersey State Senate and the longest reigning Senator in the history of NJ politics, with pocket change in a cobalt blue state like NJ, that is showing what the voters are really thinking.

You can't do **** about draining the swamp when you lose elections.

I would like the Republicans to run a candidate that will win in 2024.

And your about to go blah blah fraud bla blah cheaters blah blah. Whatever.

Desantis can win in 2024. Should win. The only chance the Dems have is for Trump to run.

agsalaska said:

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You can't do **** about draining the swamp when you lose elections.

I would like the Republicans to run a candidate that will win in 2024.

And your about to go blah blah fraud bla blah cheaters blah blah. Whatever.

Desantis can win in 2024. Should win. The only chance the Dems have is for Trump to run.

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I say Trump can win and should win. and you sound an awful lot like Gretta Thunberg. In fact, you sound an awful lot like an establishment type who thinks there is nothing wrong with the system.

Austin Ag said:

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Report: Fairfax County Rescanning Early Ballots in Virginia Governor's Race | Newsmax.com

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Hope there are a lot of observers, better yet high resolution video tape of each ballot as it is rescanned.

annie88

Dear Cher

No, no you didn't hold your tongue long enough.

Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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agsalaska said:

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You can't do **** about draining the swamp when you lose elections.

I would like the Republicans to run a candidate that will win in 2024.

And your about to go blah blah fraud bla blah cheaters blah blah. Whatever.

Desantis can win in 2024. Should win. The only chance the Dems have is for Trump to run.

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I say Trump can win and should win. and you sound an awful lot like Gretta Thunberg. In fact, you sound an awful lot like an establishment type who thinks there is nothing wrong with the system.

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Yea whatever. Your attempts to insult anyone and everyone is pretty childish.

I don't think taking a second chance on him winning after losing to a corpse is the brightest of ideas.

DeSantis would be a FAR better candidate.

aginresearch said:

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I disagree. A number of states have significantly tightened election laws and procedures. We all just watched a slow motion take down of the Democrats in Virginia. In New Jersey the Democrats seemingly imploded overnight.

If Democrats could steal any election then why didn't they do it in Virginia? It's not like they were caught by surprise. In fact you could see them panicking in Virginia in the weeks leading up to the election. They certainly weren't acting like people who could dial up cheating to win an election. They acted like a party that knew they were losing and that it was slipping away.

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They tried and failed.

Virginia election officials in Fairfax county illegally accepted mail in ballots that did not give the last 4 digits of the voters social security number. This was a violation of a legal requirement.

agsalaska said:

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Son_Of_Fanatic said:

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agsalaska said:

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You can't do **** about draining the swamp when you lose elections.

I would like the Republicans to run a candidate that will win in 2024.

And your about to go blah blah fraud bla blah cheaters blah blah. Whatever.

Desantis can win in 2024. Should win. The only chance the Dems have is for Trump to run.

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I say Trump can win and should win. and you sound an awful lot like Gretta Thunberg. In fact, you sound an awful lot like an establishment type who thinks there is nothing wrong with the system.

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Yea whatever. Your attempts to insult anyone and everyone is pretty childish.

I don't think taking a second chance on him winning after losing to a corpse is the brightest of ideas.

DeSantis would be a FAR better candidate.

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Attempt, take a look in the mirror. blah blah blah blah blah. whatever. You could have actually just discussed the topic but you chose to take that route. I responded. You are still gullible enough to believe there was no fraud, even though the arizona audit proved it. And there will be more audits. We shall see what they say. But you seem to be of the mind that it will make no difference to you. blah blah blah blah blah. Insulting enough?