cecil77 said:

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How about men who go through multiple women?

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ok so in Japan you have 10% of the guys going through 80-90% of the women. In their society the men aren't the problem, it's the 80-90% of women ignoring the 90% of men

whytho987654 said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You know I am very anti China, but I do believe they have been watching us and specifically japan, which is why you see them pushing masculine and traditional values. They understand that society will collapse if all else fails. I looked into Japan's dating scene and it looks like Japan was experiencing what we are going through now ~30 years ago and it has evolved into their nightmare scenario now. I have no doubt I'll find a woman to have kids and get married, but I'm more concerned about the world my future kids (especially son) would grow up in

Edit: would like to add that Japan has also neutered fields that have made men successful. In the USA, you can overcome the hypergamy hurdle and get a good girl by becoming an engineer, doctor, lawyer, investment banker, etc. but in Japan, they have essentially destroyed all those fields, as they all make around 70-80k, and on top of much much lower pay they pay for insanely high taxes in their entitlement society. This is why we must resist the liberal movement and block their agenda at every turn

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There is a much deeper historical reason for it. The biggest offense to filial piety is to not have children.
Historically speaking, homosexuals ( or "Passion of the severed sleeve") were viewed as "Okay" so long as they had children.
The present day eerily reminds me of the collapse of the Roman Empire, uncontrolled mass migrations tacitly supported to achieve political ends, monetary woes, declining demographic of the original cultural group that founded the nation, and an expensive legal system.
In essence, a nation incapable of protecting its citizens, unwilling to arm or allow the common man to provide for its own defense, with a partial judicial codex of obscure, contradictory, and ambiguous laws by design to aggravate all but the richest and powerful patrons.

"I see wars, horrible wars, and the Tiber foaming with much blood."- Aeneid book 6, l. 86;

BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

Ags4DaWin said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

erudite said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

Sex without the risk of pregnancy is having disastrous effects. I believe this is the biggest contributor to the state of male-female relations and drop in birth rates.

No more pregnancies means extinction.

whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

---

erudite said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

---

whytho987654 said:

---

erudite said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

---

I am not sure why there you have this burning hatred of other cultures. It's not like they are trying to force you to assimilate. Who are we to care about them?

erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

---

whytho987654 said:

---

erudite said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

---

Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

---

I am not sure why there you have this burning hatred of other cultures. It's not like they are trying to force you to assimilate. Who are we to care about them?

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Hatred is probably a strong word. I think some cultures are better at expanding and maintaining civilization than others. I bet the tibet people will still be there after the west falls though.

erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

---

I am not sure why there you have this burning hatred of other cultures. It's not like they are trying to force you to assimilate. Who are we to care about them?

---

I don't hate other cultures, you're putting words in my mouth. I like living in the west. I'm just pointing out a reason for the rise of western society and how it has thrived in various environments. It's not because of white supremacy or whatever bs you hear, but the patriarchal society of the west. Everyone had their jobs and they did it well. Every man had a woman and it led to more productive and motivated men, and women cared for their kids and raised a strong nuclear family that continued this into the next generation.

Edit: also things weren't rosey and lovey dovey like the Disney movies make it seem. People in old Europe had to struggle to survive too, life wasn't all roses and gold. The west rose up and strived even with these struggles because of the way society was set up. Aristotle and other philosophical people of Europe set the blue print and they carried it out and now look at how successful and rich the west is today

one MEEN Ag said:

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You single guys need to learn how to country western dance.

The women love it, and it'll better your chances at getting a woman who sees eye to eye on roles.

Swallow your pride and go get some lessons.

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This...

There is so much wrapped up in a man asking a woman to dance. It shows a man's confidence, gives him a chance to talk to her while she is focused only on him, there's touching involved, eye contact, etc...

All non-sexual and safe for the woman with no real pressure.

Old McDonald said:

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Malibu2 said:

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These threads make me have two opposing thoughts: 1) I am in an extreme outlier relationship and got insanely lucky or 2) Y'all are offering absolutely terrible advice based on some goofy Platonic masculine feminine myths that do little to describe actual humans.

Be a good human, take care of yourself, and find someone else who does the same and things will generally work out for you.

---

having spent a lot of time in the MRA/redpill orbit in my younger years, i agree with this. in retrospect, it was mostly just misogyny wrapped up in pseudoscience. it was common to treat and think of women in the macro-abstract and not, you know, actual people with nuance.

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

---

I am not sure why there you have this burning hatred of other cultures. It's not like they are trying to force you to assimilate. Who are we to care about them?

---

I don't hate other cultures, you're putting words in my mouth. I like living in the west. I'm just pointing out a reason for the rise of western society and how it has thrived in various environments. It's not because of white supremacy or whatever bs you hear, but the patriarchal society of the west. Everyone had their jobs and they did it well. Every man had a woman and it led to more productive and motivated men, and women cared for their kids and raised a strong nuclear family that continued this into the next generation.

Edit: also things weren't rosey and lovey dovey like the Disney movies make it seem. People in old Europe had to struggle to survive too, life wasn't all roses and gold. The west rose up and strived even with these struggles because of the way society was set up. Aristotle and other philosophical people of Europe set the blue print and they carried it out and now look at how successful and rich the west is today

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I'm not saying life in Europe was easier as you said in regards to the Disney films, I am simply noting the difference in cultures. I don't care about "white supremacy" (I am not white) or whatever bs I hear, I just filter it out.
The easiest to survive areas are tropical, and one only need to see how many superpowers and leaders came out of countries there in the modern era to tell.

Hasnt pre marital sex always been around though? I don't think it's more rampant now then say the 80s

hedge said:

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Hasnt pre marital sex always been around though? I don't think it's more rampant now then say the 80s

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Much easier now with all of the hookup sites/apps.

Rapier108 said:

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hedge said:

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Hasnt pre marital sex always been around though? I don't think it's more rampant now then say the 80s

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Much easier now with all of the hookup sites/apps.

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I hear... that before aids the late 60s and 70s didn't need apps. I also hear that in those days a Sunday School teacher "might" wait until the second date.

bmks270 said:

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Sex without the risk of pregnancy is having disastrous effects. I believe this is the biggest contributor to the state of male-female relations and drop in birth rates.

No more pregnancies means extinction.

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This. Widespread contraceptives use has enabled the majority of this. Before, women were the gatekeepers of sexual morality, but contraception has eliminated that.

By the way the Catholic Church has been right about this for pretty much ever. Go read Humae Vitae by Pope St Paul VI. He foresaw just about all of this.

What did the good pope say ?

" The acceptance of artificial methods of birth control is then claimed to result in several negative consequences, among them a general lowering of moral standards resulting from sex without consequences, and the danger that men may reduce women to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of [their] own desires; finally, abuse of power by public authorities, and a false sense of autonomy." - from a summary.

Tolle Lege- https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae.html

Spot on analysis

HS chemistry teacher 1971: The most significant invention of the 20th Century is a four letter word starting with "P".

hedge said:

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What did the good pope say ?

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It was a good prediction based on behavioral economics, really putting aside any doctrine or theology.

I may be off a bit, but basically he said, if you reliably separate the possibility of pregnancy from the sexual act, you will change the cost/benefits associated with finding and keeping personal intimate relationships. Men will presume they have no responsibilities afterward and women will offer it up in an arms race to get affection, attention, etc.

Sexual attraction remains as powerful a force as ever, but without the consequential outcome of another human life to think about. You have this powerful interpersonal dynamic decoupled from why it is powerful and consequential leaving people driven to have sex without a hint of the other things that they would otherwise drive themselves to do in order to get it.

At the margins and beyond, you have people wanting relationships and having to raise their bid, as it were, to compete. If a woman wants attention, she has to put out, if a man wants some action, he'll either have many options or virtually none that he finds acceptable. In the end, many are left out with unfulfilled family lives and fewer people are born.

Secularly speaking, that works out great for many people and terrible for others, but its a really bad overall thing from a Catholic theology standpoint.

Attributed to Mick Jagger:

Men give love to get sex
Women give sex to get love

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Im the one who posted women are hypergamous last week.

Of course there are exceptions but exceptions do not make the rule.

I read that women are biphasic in attraction to men. They want an offspring of an alpha male during ovulatory phase but goes home to a beta provider.

And someomwhere along here they exhibit hypergamous nature in marrying up because this ensures safety and protection for life, hopefully.

Maybe a genetic imprint beyond their ability to control or manipulate.

I do see some women breadwinners. Typically unattractive and dominating of their low testosterone husbands.

I dont think I have ever met an attractive woman breadwinner who is still married and if she is, shes getting ready to divorce.

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Can you hook a brother up?

What word is that ?

Malibu2 said:

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These threads make me have two opposing thoughts: 1) I am in an extreme outlier relationship and got insanely lucky or 2) Y'all are offering absolutely terrible advice based on some goofy Platonic masculine feminine myths that do little to describe actual humans.

Be a good human, take care of yourself, and find someone else who does the same and things will generally work out for you.

---

It makes me more sympathetic to some of the posters given their plight.
So that's where the angst is coming from.

hedge said:

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What word is that ?

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(The) Pill

Faustus said:

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Malibu2 said:

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These threads make me have two opposing thoughts: 1) I am in an extreme outlier relationship and got insanely lucky or 2) Y'all are offering absolutely terrible advice based on some goofy Platonic masculine feminine myths that do little to describe actual humans.

Be a good human, take care of yourself, and find someone else who does the same and things will generally work out for you.

---

It makes me more sympathetic to some of the posters given their plight.
So that's where the angst is coming from.

---

Yea, it's quite amusing reading the red flags in relationships and gender roles that would make mine and my peer groups relationships fall apart in unhappy flameouts, and meanwhile I'm violating every pearl of red pill wisdom living a happy married life.

A lot of talk about wives and not one comment has advice on how to make your wife lose weight successfully...

Cheat on them

erudite said:

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whytho987654 said:

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erudite said:

---

whytho987654 said:

---

erudite said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BAP Enthusiast said:

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Japan is what a country looks like with runaway hypergamy. 70% of Japanese men are herbivore men who have quit all society. Since the 80/20 rule comes into play, the women haven't even really noticed or changed their behaviors.

It will be interesting to watch Japan as their birth rates fall through the floor. I have read the Japanese government is absolutely in a panic.

China and other Asian countries have similar issues to Japan about hypergamy.

---

You mean a society built around female (in particular) sexual promiscuity that encourages women to sleep around and control most things is not a utopia?

I durst not believe such things. At A&M I was told that before the patriarchy, women could bang whomever they wanted and ran tribes and that everything was awesome and all the men helped out with cleaning and child raising as well as providing- all because they couldn't tell whose kid was whose and they worshipped the women for pushing out babies out of their vaginas!

---

There are portions of the world who have culturally evolved in such a manner, such as parts of Bhutan/Tibet have polyandry. But those values are not compatible with "western culture", in a nutshell they believe that a child can have multiple parent lineages, a completely alien though in the western world.

---

and look at their standard of living and society compared to the west.....

---

When you live in one of the harshest environments on Earth, you're more busy trying to keep yourself from starving then bothering to do great things like advancing technology. Simply a numbers game.

---

Europe isn't a very good environment either. Also look what happened to the America's when the west came over. America was hostile before England came over. A lot of that success is due to the structure of society.

---

I am not sure why there you have this burning hatred of other cultures. It's not like they are trying to force you to assimilate. Who are we to care about them?

---

It's postmodernist garbage to think that all cultures are equal.

Or are you suddenly now ok with the Taliban throwing gay people off of buildings or the practice of "stamping" in sub-Saharan Africa?

By the way stamping is the practice of female genital mutilation, whereby a wooden club is heated up in a fire and then applied to a female's ****oral area to curb sexual stimulation and desire. It is commonly done by the girl's mother. Yes, let's celebrate that culture.

BrotherChad said:

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A lot of talk about wives and not one comment has advice on how to make your wife lose weight successfully...

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Meh. My sympathy level depends on basically how in shape you are and your daily habits.

I've never been the type to just want to crash on a couch, but after having our first kid when they go down for bed that is all I can think about. And there is a ton of projects to do around the house that call my name as well. COVID also broke some routine instilled discipline on snacking/meals.

Routines with small kids are hard. For either parent to get a break requires coordination and sacrifice.

BrotherChad said:

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A lot of talk about wives and not one comment has advice on how to make your wife lose weight successfully...

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just tell her, "no, those pants don't make you look fat. Your muffin top does ."

Point out how fit her hot friend, assuming she has hot friends, is