Irish 2.0's COVID Vaccine Rant

6,007 Views | 58 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by richardag
Irish 2.0
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12:21p, 8/18/21
As many of you have noticed, I've been rather vocal about the COVID vaccines on this board. I'm not some crazy anti-vaxxer or COVID denier, but I am interested in data. The COVID mRNA vaccines (mRNA vaccines period) have ZERO long term data. The mRNA technology has indeed been around for years and by all accounts appears to be safe, but we have never mass produced and rolled out a vaccine from isolation of protein to EUA in less than 10 months with brand new technology.

Given my demographic, I see little reason for myself and people in similar categories as myself to rush to take the mRNA vaccines. I see absolutely zero reason to give them to children, but that is up to the parents to decide and I respect their decisions in doing so. It is a risk/reward analysis that I believe everyone should analyze on their own and/or with their care provider. Though I haven't taken the vaccine, I have advised and suggested that people in demographics that are highly susceptible to more severe symptoms get the vaccine. If you have a choice, I'd say Moderna over Pfizer or J&J (though not mRNA).

Now you may wonder why I'm saying this given that most have seen this from many posters for almost a year. For me it is because there is a vaccine in the pipeline that will hopefully have FDA Approval sometime in Q4. It is the Novovax NVX-CoV2373 vaccine. This vaccine uses technology that has been used and mass produced for over 40 years. It is the same technology used for the Hep B vaccine that we all get the day we're born. It is technology that has been used in certain influenza vaccines before. It has long term data on the technology.

This YouTube video gives an explanation of the Novovax vaccine and the technology it uses. Just a 5mins video that gives a simple breakdown from Dr. Christy Risinger in Austin. Few might realize this because it is not so heavily reported, but vaccine hesitancy amongst medical professionals is running over 40% still. Even some of our own doctors aren't in a rush to get a mRNA vaccine due to the lack of data. But the ones I have talked to that are hesitant to get the mRNA have said they'll be first in line for Novovax and I'll be right behind them.

/End Rant


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AgGrad99
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12:25p, 8/18/21
AG
Been waiting on this one for months. Looking forward to it coming out.
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Jbob04
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12:26p, 8/18/21
AG
Yep, nova is the only vaccine I will consider
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 12:27p, 8/18/21
Where you getting that 40% number?
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longviewag04
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12:28p, 8/18/21
AG
I'm holding out for Novovax if I MUST get a vaccine.
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Ag$08
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12:29p, 8/18/21
All safe and effective vaccines are good and will save lives. If a hesitant person prefers this vaccine, go for it.
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BusterAg
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12:29p, 8/18/21
AG
Yeah, you are not alone in feeling more comfortable with this one.
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Irish 2.0
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In reply to Im Gipper • 12:30p, 8/18/21
Im Gipper said:
Where you getting that 40% number?
The article is a about six weeks old

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judystone/2021/06/28/covid19-vaccination-rates-are-poor-among-healthcare-workershow-can-we-do-better/?sh=4edf8f09589e
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TefIon Don
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In reply to Ag$08 • 12:31p, 8/18/21
AG
Ag$08 said:
All safe and effective vaccines are good and will save lives. If a hesitant person prefers this vaccine, go for it.


K
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 12:32p, 8/18/21
Based on that, MDs are almost all getting it and LVNs are not. Don't think that is the best "study" to cite for what health care professionals are doing or not doing.

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Irish 2.0
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In reply to Im Gipper • 12:33p, 8/18/21
Im Gipper said:
Based on that, MDs are almost all getting it and LVNs are not. Don't think that is the best "study" to cite for what health care professionals are doing or not doing.

LVNs are health care professionals. I said "some of our own doctors". I know what I wrote
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TTUArmy
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In reply to Im Gipper • 12:34p, 8/18/21
Im Gipper said:
Based on that, MDs are almost all getting it and LVNs are not. Don't think that is the best "study" to cite for what health care professionals are doing or not doing.
Looks like there are going to be a lot of burned out MDs pretty soon.
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Im Gipper
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 12:36p, 8/18/21
Do you take medical advice from an LVN? What does that take to get? A couple of classes online?

I have not gotten the vaccine because I have the antibodies. Don't need it, and don't care who gets it. But that 40% number cited (if its from that link) does not really tell the whole story.
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Irish 2.0
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In reply to Im Gipper • 12:37p, 8/18/21
Im Gipper said:
Do you take medical advice from an LVN? What does that take to get? A couple of classes online?

I have not gotten the vaccine because I have the antibodies. Don't need it, and don't care who gets it. But that 40% number cited (if its from that link) does not really tell the whole story.
I have the anitbodies too.
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TxTarpon
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In reply to Irish 2.0 • 12:43p, 8/18/21
Another "moonshot" company.
Quote:
A year before the covid pandemic hit, Novavax had a failed late-stage trial on a potential respiratory virus vaccine, after which it cut its workforce and sold off all its manufacturing capabilities. So, when more than $2 billion in federal and international funding landed at its doorstep, Novavax found itself developing both "a vaccine and a company" in 12 months, said Dr. Gregory Glenn, president of research and development.

Novavax's proprietary secret ingredient is Matrix-M, an immune booster. Executives say the additive derived from Chilean soapbark trees works so well that less of an antibody-producing antigen would be needed with it in a vaccine. One financial filing said Matrix-M "has the potential to be of immense value." Link
[url=https://khn.org/news/article/covid-vaccine-novavax-vaccination-effort-from-zero-to-not-quite-warp-speed/][/url]Government funding to the rescue. (he posts with some playful sarcasm)
Quote:
One of Novavax's biggest challenges, Yadav said, is relying on "so many sites" that aren't fully under its control, while other manufacturers own their plants. The more places Novavax produces the vaccine, the more challenging it is to make sure the vaccine and its elements are comparable in every place.
Yeah, well we will get the US made ones, right?
RIGHT?


The socialist tundra bunnies like it.
How the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine differs from those already approved in Canada


Never heard of some of these vaccines.
UPDATED Comparing COVID-19 Vaccines: Timelines, Types and Prices
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AgGrad99
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12:46p, 8/18/21
AG
On a related note:

The efficacy of Novavax is high, it can be stored at room temperature, and doesnt expire for 6 months.

It would seem like the government would be helping them as much as possible, since that makes it much more efficient to distribute/manufacture.
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AgGrad99
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In reply to TxTarpon • 12:48p, 8/18/21
AG

Quote:
Yeah, well we will get the US made ones, right?

RIGHT?
You understand they dont have to authorize a plant to manufacture it? And this is a common obstacle for any company, who manufactures anything. It's why companies like this have QC departments and employ auditors.

And Im not sure why you'd label it a 'moonshot' company. They've completed Phase3 trials already, with good results:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/us-clinical-trial-results-show-novavax-vaccine-safe-prevents-covid-19
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HowdyTAMU
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12:50p, 8/18/21
AG
Novavax. One or multiple shots?
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AgGrad99
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In reply to HowdyTAMU • 12:51p, 8/18/21
AG
2 shots, 21 days apart.
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goatchze
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In reply to TxTarpon • 12:56p, 8/18/21
AG
TxTarpon said:
Another "moonshot" company.
Quote:
A year before the covid pandemic hit, Novavax had a failed late-stage trial on a potential respiratory virus vaccine, after which it cut its workforce and sold off all its manufacturing capabilities. So, when more than $2 billion in federal and international funding landed at its doorstep, Novavax found itself developing both "a vaccine and a company" in 12 months, said Dr. Gregory Glenn, president of research and development.

Novavax's proprietary secret ingredient is Matrix-M, an immune booster. Executives say the additive derived from Chilean soapbark trees works so well that less of an antibody-producing antigen would be needed with it in a vaccine. One financial filing said Matrix-M "has the potential to be of immense value." Link
[url=https://khn.org/news/article/covid-vaccine-novavax-vaccination-effort-from-zero-to-not-quite-warp-speed/][/url]Government funding to the rescue. (he posts with some playful sarcasm)
Quote:
One of Novavax's biggest challenges, Yadav said, is relying on "so many sites" that aren't fully under its control, while other manufacturers own their plants. The more places Novavax produces the vaccine, the more challenging it is to make sure the vaccine and its elements are comparable in every place.
Yeah, well we will get the US made ones, right?
RIGHT?


The socialist tundra bunnies like it.
How the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine differs from those already approved in Canada


Never heard of some of these vaccines.
UPDATED Comparing COVID-19 Vaccines: Timelines, Types and Prices
You realize that Novavax will be (and has been) manufactured in B/CS, right?
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Irish 2.0
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 12:57p, 8/18/21
AgGrad99 said:
2 shots, 21 days apart.
I believe they also have worked on the ability to roll the COVID vaccine into the annual flu vaccine
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Womackster
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In reply to Ag$08 • 1:00p, 8/18/21
AG
Ag$08 said:
All safe and effective vaccines are good and will save lives. If a hesitant person prefers this vaccine, go for it.


Kind of an important qualifier.

And everyone really appreciates your permission to "go for it."
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Ag$08
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In reply to Womackster • 1:03p, 8/18/21
Yes?

You seem a bit worked up over nothing.
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Slicer97
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1:24p, 8/18/21
AG
Quote:
One of Novavax's biggest challenges, Yadav said, is relying on "so many sites" that aren't fully under its control, while other manufacturers own their plants. The more places Novavax produces the vaccine, the more challenging it is to make sure the vaccine and its elements are comparable in every place.

Would the Novavax vaccine not be manufactured at a GMP facility?
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Nasreddin
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In reply to Ag$08 • 1:26p, 8/18/21
Ag$08 said:
All safe and effective vaccines are good and will save lives. If a hesitant person prefers this vaccine, go for it.


I DO NOT NEED YOUR PERMISSION! Do not attempt to convey permission. I will never comply.
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Rapier108
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In reply to TxTarpon • 1:31p, 8/18/21
Canada is buy 5 or 6 different vaccines because they plan to vaccinate everyone in the country on a regular basis, Novavax is just one of them.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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Ag$08
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In reply to Nasreddin • 1:35p, 8/18/21
No one asked you to "comply." Don't stroke out.
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Nasreddin
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In reply to Ag$08 • 1:37p, 8/18/21
No one is asking me to comply? I guess only because I don't live in New York or New Orleans.
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MRB10
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1:39p, 8/18/21
AG
On the 40% number, I work in an industry that sells a certain product to healthcare providers and part of our process is to ask for vaccination rates for their employees. Up until recently, that 40% number has been legit but we're seeing numbers closer to 30% in major health systems, and 40-50% for aging services, as recently as end of July.

These percentages represent the number of employees who have refused to get the vaccine. These numbers change if the employer has made vaccination a condition of employment.
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Irish 2.0
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In reply to MRB10 • 1:43p, 8/18/21
NTXAg10 said:
On the 40% number, I work in an industry that sells a certain product to healthcare providers and part of our process is to ask for vaccination rates for their employees. Up until recently, that 40% number has been legit but we're seeing numbers closer to 30% in major health systems, and 40-50% for aging services, as recently as end of July.

These percentages represent the number of employees who have refused to get the vaccine. These numbers change if the employer has made vaccination a condition of employment.
That's why I made note to say that the article I got my number from is six weeks old. I know that hospitals adopting vaccine mandates probably pushed it, but I don't have a more accurate figure on it.

Thanks for the more accurate figure if even anecdotal
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TxTarpon
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In reply to goatchze • 3:08p, 8/18/21

Quote:
You realize that some Novavax will be (and has been) manufactured in B/CS, right?
FIFY

You didn't read the link.
Who cares where it is made as long as it is in the US with better quality standards?
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GAC06
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3:10p, 8/18/21
AG
Novavax is how you create Mothra

Better find a Godzilla or Mechagodzilla ready just in case
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Irish 2.0
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10:26a, 8/31/21
Bump with Novovax update
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Rapier108
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10:31a, 8/31/21
Good, now get it its EUA already and quit kissing Pfizer's ass.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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YouBet
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10:38a, 8/31/21
AG
Do we know yet if you get an mRNA now and then a year or more from now you then get the Novavax if there is any potential harm in doing so?

Mostly rhetorical since I know we don't know that yet, but I am curious when later vaccines are developed that are more effective if you are stuck with an mRNA forever because you took one of those now.
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