Consolidated Fall of Kabul Update Thread

423,566 Views | 3966 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Señor Chang
will25u
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backintexas2013
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AG
This isn't shocking. We will pay big bucks to get them back.
will25u
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Taliban gifts. Compliments of the US

HumpitPuryear
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agsalaska said:

annie88 said:

will25u said:


And this is amazingly sad but we cannot bring them here.


Yes we can and we absolutely should.
Serious question. Why? Those Afghans where not helping America they were trying to advance their own country forward. We've sacrificed as much as the Afghans and it's not our country. We gave them cover and resources for 20 years to build a modern functioning government and a 21st century society. Why do we owe them more than that?

Do they deserve more than the ANA? Their families? Where does it stop? Are we supposed to airlift half the country? It's their country they were fighting for. Not the USA. Maybe they should pick up a rifle and at least take out a couple Taliban on the way out.

I'm sick about the humanitarian disaster that this is and I don't mean to sound callous but these are serious questions that need more consideration of the long-term impacts.
agsalaska
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AG
HumpitPuryear said:

agsalaska said:

annie88 said:

will25u said:


And this is amazingly sad but we cannot bring them here.


Yes we can and we absolutely should.
Serious question. Why? Those Afghans where not helping America they were trying to advance their own country forward. We've sacrificed as much as the Afghans and it's not our country. We gave them cover and resources for 20 years to build a modern functioning government and a 21st century society. Why do we owe them more than that?

Do they deserve more than the ANA? Their families? Where does it stop? Are we supposed to airlift half the country? It's their country they were fighting for. Not the USA. Maybe they should pick up a rifle and at least take out a couple Taliban on the way out.

I'm sick about the humanitarian disaster that this is and I don't mean to sound callous but these are serious questions that need more consideration of the long-term impacts.
That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.

will25u
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WTF.

Jayhawk
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agsalaska said:



That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.


In a perfect world yes. But that is not the situation in reality. The situation in reality is you will have an overflowing mass of "intepreters" and even just plain old hordes mobbing the ramps of departing aircraft as we saw today.

My standard is this: are you willing to bring conservative Sunni Muslims here en masse, have them marry and convert the natives, possibly even your own family members? That is what we are talking about in practice based on how this is going to go in reality.
Jayhawk
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will25u said:

WTF.


Well it is a little late for that to be realistic. What power we have left is entirely concentrated at Kabul International Airport and its all we can do to evacuate refugees and our own people. The massive amount of military equipment we have given the Afghans is a sunk cost. MRAPS, armored trucks, infantry weapons of all descriptions, helicopters, airplanes, radios, etc... enough to outfit a 300,000 man army are now largely the inheritence of the Taliban.

To say nothing of roads, bridges, power stations, water treatment facilities, power plants etc. that did not exist in 2001. In effect the Taliban leased us Afghanistan for 20 years, we made improvements at a pharaonic scale, and now they inherit all of this largesse debt free.
agsalaska
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Jayhawk said:

agsalaska said:



That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.


In a perfect world yes. But that is not the situation in reality. The situation in reality is you will have an overflowing mass of "intepreters" and even just plain old hordes mobbing the ramps of departing aircraft as we saw today.

My standard is this: are you willing to bring conservative Sunni Muslims here en masse, have them marry and convert the natives, possibly even your own family members? That is what we are talking about in practice based on how this is going to go in reality.
We can deal with it. Get them out.
Jayhawk
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agsalaska said:

Jayhawk said:

agsalaska said:



That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.


In a perfect world yes. But that is not the situation in reality. The situation in reality is you will have an overflowing mass of "intepreters" and even just plain old hordes mobbing the ramps of departing aircraft as we saw today.

My standard is this: are you willing to bring conservative Sunni Muslims here en masse, have them marry and convert the natives, possibly even your own family members? That is what we are talking about in practice based on how this is going to go in reality.
We can deal with it. Get them out.
All of them? Blanket immigration visas sort of how the UK did for Hong Kong?

Have you been to Afghanistan?
Matt_ag98
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Irish 2.0 said:




[More facts. Less commentary. Take the commentary to other threads, please. - STAFF]
TChaney
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Robert C. Christian said:

I thought that was found to be fake?




Lord Miles Routledge made his way out.
agsalaska
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AG
Jayhawk said:

agsalaska said:

Jayhawk said:

agsalaska said:



That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.


In a perfect world yes. But that is not the situation in reality. The situation in reality is you will have an overflowing mass of "intepreters" and even just plain old hordes mobbing the ramps of departing aircraft as we saw today.

My standard is this: are you willing to bring conservative Sunni Muslims here en masse, have them marry and convert the natives, possibly even your own family members? That is what we are talking about in practice based on how this is going to go in reality.
We can deal with it. Get them out.
All of them? Blanket immigration visas sort of how the UK did for Hong Kong?

Have you been to Afghanistan?

I never said 'blanket' visas. You said that. Why? I never said anything close to that.

I said get them out, vet them, and deal with them.
HumpitPuryear
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AG
agsalaska said:

HumpitPuryear said:

agsalaska said:

annie88 said:

will25u said:


And this is amazingly sad but we cannot bring them here.


Yes we can and we absolutely should.
Serious question. Why? Those Afghans where not helping America they were trying to advance their own country forward. We've sacrificed as much as the Afghans and it's not our country. We gave them cover and resources for 20 years to build a modern functioning government and a 21st century society. Why do we owe them more than that?

Do they deserve more than the ANA? Their families? Where does it stop? Are we supposed to airlift half the country? It's their country they were fighting for. Not the USA. Maybe they should pick up a rifle and at least take out a couple Taliban on the way out.

I'm sick about the humanitarian disaster that this is and I don't mean to sound callous but these are serious questions that need more consideration of the long-term impacts.
That is WAY too general of a statement. One man is not responsible for his government.

We are by in large a nation of immigrants, refugees, slaves, and natives and all of their descendents. My father's side fled to escape the Kaiser. My wife's fled a famine. Most of these people have shown a loyalty to our side and our ideology and we should not leave them in the street to be shot or hung or worse. We need to get as many of them as we can out and bring them here.

I understand they need to be vetted.


This is nothing like the southern border.


I'm not saying it is like the southern border but vetting is useless. Remember the Boston bombers. They were vetted. All of your reasons are emotional, and I get that it's emotional. But I have to admit that a lot of what Biden said today is true - they didn't fight for themselves. If they won't fight for their own country are they going to fight for ours? They don't even seem interested in fighting for their own families. These are not people that are going to assimilate and we aren't leaving them in the streets. They have weapons and training to use them. They handed them over to the Taliban instead of fighting.
Ag_07
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AG
I've seen a lot people explain that they can't fight for themselves.

You can't when you're not getting fuel, food, maintenance training etc.

They literally can not fight for themselves.
agsalaska
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AG
I do not agree that vetting is useless. I think that is a pour excuse. I bet we can vet these guys FAR more than we vet the typical dude crossing the border right now.


ShaggySLC
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will25u said:

Taliban gifts. Compliments of the US


Next videos will be hostages
Jayhawk
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agsalaska said:

I do not agree that vetting is useless. I think that is a pour excuse. I bet we can vet these guys FAR more than we vet the typical dude crossing the border right now.



I am just trying to understand the scale of the Islamic immigration you are advocating for. We are already shaping up to take in ~88,000 . Is that enough? Should we take more if their lives will not be as fulfilling under a Taliban regime?

In good faith, I think what you mean is "Afghans who helped the United States military during our occupation" but my point is that this level of discernment a) exceeds our vetting capability and b) is so prone to exploitation as to be nearly meaningless.

I am for very limited special visas for Afghans on an individual basis who undergo vetting and whose contributions are well documented. I am not for bringing in every Afghan who worked as a groundskeeper at a U.S. facility and even that would be more discerning then what we are currently doing in reality.
agsalaska
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AG
Not sure of the number, but my guess is in the 60k range.

Most will not be able to get out. We should get the ones that we can.



And I didntt mean to derail this thread.
Matt_ag98
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Uh thanks staff, what I said was a fact, let me go dig up the video of that off the Biden campaign trail, think he was in Michigan maybe...oh and I watched that coverage from my office on Bagram Airfield last year so maybe cut me a break?

[If you have a problem with the moderation, you can email us. Your use of "Peepaw" was what pushed it over the line. That's commentary. - STAFF]
DannyDuberstein
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We've worked with tens of thousands of these people for years. Many of them have DOD ID's. We can vet them.
agsalaska
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AG
My bad on the thread derail.
will25u
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Where is vindman? I'm sure he could see us through this.

TRADUCTOR
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Jayhawk said:

agsalaska said:

I do not agree that vetting is useless. I think that is a pour excuse. I bet we can vet these guys FAR more than we vet the typical dude crossing the border right now.



I am just trying to understand the scale of the Islamic immigration you are advocating for. We are already shaping up to take in ~88,000 . Is that enough? Should we take more if their lives will not be as fulfilling under a Taliban regime?

In good faith, I think what you mean is "Afghans who helped the United States military during our occupation" but my point is that this level of discernment a) exceeds our vetting capability and b) is so prone to exploitation as to be nearly meaningless.

I am for very limited special visas for Afghans on an individual basis who undergo vetting and whose contributions are well documented. I am not for bringing in every Afghan who worked as a groundskeeper at a U.S. facility and even that would be more discerning then what we are currently doing in reality.


10MM Muslins have immigrated since 911. These Afghans are a drop in the bucket ..these are the ones at least maybe helped Americans.

81MM* do not care about the border or immigration.
X was born on October 28, 2022 and should be a national holiday.
will25u
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will25u
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GT_Aggie2015
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TChaney said:

Robert C. Christian said:

I thought that was found to be fake?




Lord Miles Routledge made his way out.
YouBet
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will25u said:


Lol. We've now increased troops and spent even more money all because he failed on a magnificent scale. He's doing literally the opposite of what he said in his speech 7 hours ago.
YouBet
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AG
I believe this has already been confirmed as fake. Maybe I'm wrong though.
Artorias
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will25u said:




Why the hell are there 10k US citizens in freaking Afghanistan at all?
Loyalty
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C@LAg said:

what about the US military equipment?


It's all no longer US military equipment. But it will be used no doubt.
DannyDuberstein
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will25u said:




If this is true, neighbors are going to be giving them up to curry favor with the Taliban in no time. Prayers for these people.
agracer
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Ag_07 said:

I've seen a lot people explain that they can't fight for themselves.

You can't when you're not getting fuel, food, maintenance training etc.

They literally can not fight for themselves.
So the last 20 years was useless?
whatthehey78
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agsalaska said:

I do not agree that vetting is useless. I think that is a pour excuse. I bet we can vet these guys FAR more than we vet the typical dude crossing the border right now.



Whether we can or can't. I wager...we won't/don't. We haven't in the past and it is even LESS likely we would today. It is a FACT...You can't be ALL THINGS, to ALL PEOPLE. That is in God's purview ONLY. Sadly, the moral of this story is...there are consequences for bad decisions.

The US should have never gotten itself mired in ME muck. Now, we and they suffer the "consequences". If we're honest with ourselves, I think we know who (individuals/corporations) profited and today has no remorse for the events we're witnessing. That is where the REAL obligations/responsibilities lie to provide a solution.

Don't hold your breath.
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force! But Jesus Christ founded His upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him. - Napoleon Bonaparte
GarryowenAg
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YouBet said:

I believe this has already been confirmed as fake. Maybe I'm wrong though.

The video claims otherwise.
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