China leads 15 nations, inks largest regional free trade agreement ever

2,762 Views | 58 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by CondensedFoggyAggie
CondensedFoggyAggie
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I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business
Quote:

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed
Biden on Monday about the RCEP:
Quote:

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."


https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com
eric76
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I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.
Salute The Marines
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Because the subsequent "deals" usually come at our expense.
IslanderAg04
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The problem is it never works the way they plan. I still remember Clinton's attempt to bring democracy to China for free trade deals. Well that completely backfired. Of course Time is going to make Biden and Obama look good.
Muy
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China gives the world a deadly virus every year and should be destroyed.
CondensedFoggyAggie
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IslanderAg04 said:

The problem is it never works the way they plan. I still remember Clinton's attempt to bring democracy to China for free trade deals. Well that completely backfired. Of course Time is going to make Biden and Obama look good.

Good point, but now the primary goal isn't to bring China in. It's to keep them out of the club until they ask to be let in. Where we set the rules.

The alternative where we have to ask to be let in, or just watch our exports get smaller and smaller is much, much worse.
Maroon Dawn
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Love how the leftists pretend we had all these great trade deals totally in our favor before OMB instead of what they were: deals that came totally at America's economic expense

Instead we were treating trade deals like NATO:

"We subsidize your socialism with no reciprocity from you and in return you accept our leadership in international matters"

But that simply doesn't fly anymore these days but the old guard has grown too fat and happy off of it to want anything but the more of the same

And it's not like Biden is offering that

He is 100% owned by China so the idea that he's going to do anything but help them at our expense is laughable
BanderaAg956
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eric76 said:

I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.

Free trade is good, agreements were we fund the works and get screwed to build economies like China are stupid! Now they control us because we need what they make, given we don't make these things any longer!
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FCBlitz
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CondensedFoggyAggie said:


I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business
Quote:

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed
Biden on Monday about the RCEP:
Quote:

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."


https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com


It achieves just the opposite. We relent our position to a lesser degree over in SE Asia. Ask yourself this. "If the purpose of joining the CPTPP was to strengthen our position with China", then why did we allow China the Spratly Islands at the expense of all of the countries that have legitimate rights to that area?


CondensedFoggyAggie
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FCBlitz said:




It achieves just the opposite. We relent our position to a lesser degree over in SE Asia. Ask yourself this. "If the purpose of joining the CPTPP was to strengthen our position with China", then why did we allow China the Spratly Islands at the expense of all of the countries that have legitimate rights to that area?




What are you talking about? This in 2016 where we forced the Chinese to back down over the Spratly Islands?

Quote:


Mr Obama raised the stakes with Mr Xi after US intelligence concluded that China was moving towards reclaiming land at the shoal where Chinese and Philippines ships engaged in a high-stakes confrontation in 2012.

Following the meeting in Washington, China withdrew its ships from the area. That gave the White House a victory that some officials saw as vindication for a tougher approach than over the previous three years when it failed to force China to curb its controversial activities in the South China Sea.

https://www.ft.com/content/c63264a4-47f1-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

In any case, I don't care about Obama or Trump in this matter, I just care about the future. Surely you don't want China to lead the Asian regions economy at the expense of ours?
policywonk98
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Some of you have much different definitions of free trade than I do.

There is no such thing with China. Never has been and never will be as long as the Communist party is in charge there.

Not against trade agreements. But please spare us the propaganda that they are free trade agreements.

That these countries strike this kind of deal at this point, tells us everything we need to know. China will never be held accountable for the things they do. So the question becomes, what will they start to do next?

MaxPower
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eric76 said:

I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.
If they were free trade agreements they would be one page and take 10 minutes to draft and sign. Ever thought about why a "free trade agreement" takes years to develop and are hundreds of pages?
ttu_85
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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

FCBlitz said:




It achieves just the opposite. We relent our position to a lesser degree over in SE Asia. Ask yourself this. "If the purpose of joining the CPTPP was to strengthen our position with China", then why did we allow China the Spratly Islands at the expense of all of the countries that have legitimate rights to that area?




What are you talking about? This in 2016 where we forced the Chinese to back down over the Spratly Islands?

Quote:


Mr Obama raised the stakes with Mr Xi after US intelligence concluded that China was moving towards reclaiming land at the shoal where Chinese and Philippines ships engaged in a high-stakes confrontation in 2012.

Following the meeting in Washington, China withdrew its ships from the area. That gave the White House a victory that some officials saw as vindication for a tougher approach than over the previous three years when it failed to force China to curb its controversial activities in the South China Sea.

https://www.ft.com/content/c63264a4-47f1-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

In any case, I don't care about Obama or Trump in this matter, I just care about the future. Surely you don't want China to lead the Asian regions economy at the expense of ours?
Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.
Gigem314
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eric76 said:

I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.
Goal tending for the democrats as always.
RGV AG
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There is absolutely nothing resembling "Free Trade" as long as the supply of labor is controlled and as long as countries retain unilateral control of their borders along with internal sovereign laws regarding import procedures and processes.

The US is far and away the easiest country to do business in, other countries not so much. So all these free trade agreements have invisible barriers to US companies expanding business other than importing goods from the other signatory countries.

China wants free trade deals everywhere because it is the vehicle and mechanism that as a country they use to circumvent duties and country of origin procedures via transshipment.

Anything related to China is going to be more advantageous to China, by a far margin or they will not do it.
pacecar02
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There was about as much fee trade in the TPP as their was affordability in the ACA


It was about giving up some amount of sovereignty to this treaty and make us compete with an arm behind our back.

I for one am a citizen of the United States and not part of some globalist government. That's how I intend to remain.

The EU made many claims of how and what it would do and what it wouldn't. Not apples to apples but now those countries are forced to cede much of their individual regulating and governing decision such that they adhere to the EU policy.
SexyAg
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CFA loves CCP
asteroidbrain
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THIS IS NOT A China-led trade agreement. This is an ASEAN-led free trade pact which China, Australia and New Zealand were invited to participate in. RCEP was introduced in 2011 during the ASEAN summit in Cambodia.
AgResearch
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**** China
CondensedFoggyAggie
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ttu_85 said:



Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

And everything else he said about China the past month is along the lines of banding together Europe and Asia to leave China out.

I know you'll disagree about Biden/China, but this thread was to just show we need to control the world economy, and our allies want that too.
CondensedFoggyAggie
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asteroidbrain said:

THIS IS NOT A China-led trade agreement. This is an ASEAN-led free trade pact which China, Australia and New Zealand were invited to participate in. RCEP was introduced in 2011 during the ASEAN summit in Cambodia.

You've got to be fu***** kidding me if you don't think China gonna make RCEP their puppet. They were there in the beginning since 2011
pacecar02
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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

ttu_85 said:



Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

All while Hunter and Joe's brother were raking in millions

It's called talking out the side of ones head, nothing more than lip service
rgag12
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eric76 said:

I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.


I never understood why the liberal cult can't seem to think past the MSM talking points they are fed when it comes to anything a dem pres does
CondensedFoggyAggie
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pacecar02 said:

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

ttu_85 said:



Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

All while Hunter and Joe's brother were raking in millions

It's called talking out the side of ones head, nothing more than lip service
I'll be happy to look into the evidence for that once Tucker finds hunters laptop contents he seems to have conveniently forgotten about.

But in any case I'm looking to see how we can move forward in asia and not China
Charlie Kelley
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Aggie95
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so China, who can't feed it's own people and is buying Ag products from us, is now going to export their Ag to SE Asia?
Beached Whale
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This is one of the many examples where DT has turned traditional R orthodoxy on its head. And in this case, he's actually moved it in line w the anti-capitalist left. On the right, the populist movement dislikes trade agreements under the belief that they give up sovereignty. On the populist left, the concern is corporatism. But both get you to the same place. And both seem to miss the point: it's about leading the charge in designing and setting rules and standards governing 21st century trade (eg services not goods). If you take your ball and go home you continue to trade (bc you can't avoid it in our interconnected world) but either a) lose market share or b) play by others' rules. The other important angle that gets missed is the security one. But unfortunately in the US today, populism on both sides won out on TPP and others. While DT fans hate Hillary so much, this is an area where their policy platforms basically aligned in '16, as the R party (the traditional defender of trade) has somewhat turned its back on both multilateralism and free trade, in favor of go-it-alone approach and gov-managed trade.
ttu_85
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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

ttu_85 said:



Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

And everything else he said about China the past month is along the lines of banding together Europe and Asia to leave China out.

I know you'll disagree about Biden/China, but this thread was to just show we need to control the world economy, and our allies want that too.
When I read WE I see the United States of America.

Being a Biden voter, who yesterday blasted Trump as an America firster, what the hell do you see?

Democrats are globalist. Its why they sh** on American rustbelt labor 20 years ago.
Aggie4Life02
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Leather Tuscadero said:

Because the subsequent "deals" usually come at our expense.


Sounds like someone needs some Milton Friedman in their life.
e=mc2
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This thread is proof that liberals need to stay far away from economics. So much dumb.
malenurse
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eric76 said:

I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.
Using that term immediately brands you as a leftist idiot
CondensedFoggyAggie
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ttu_85 said:

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

ttu_85 said:



Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

And everything else he said about China the past month is along the lines of banding together Europe and Asia to leave China out.

I know you'll disagree about Biden/China, but this thread was to just show we need to control the world economy, and our allies want that too.
When I read WE I see the United States of America.

Being a Biden voter, who yesterday blasted Trump as an America firster, what the hell do you see?

Democrats are globalist. Its why they sh** American rustbelt labor 20 years ago.

America is global. Do you even understand how much **** we sell the entire world? And how much profit flows back into us? You want others to take our exports? Take over our trade partners? Maybe the dollar is no longer the world currency?

Jesus, regardless of who's fault rustbelt labor is, thats a different topic, and but a small piece in the entire economic landscape.
TRADUCTOR
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15, Boy, that is a lot of Chinese companies children board members ...
SLAM
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CondensedFoggyAggie said:


I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business
Quote:

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed
Biden on Monday about the RCEP:
Quote:

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."


https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com


Signing a free trade deal with China means they will hold you to it while they will violate every single aspect of the agreement. They care nothing about adhering to these deals at all.
TAMU1990
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AG
All that matters to the democrats is when can their families line up to get their cut.
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