Do any of you actually understand geopolitics? For the most part, free trade agreements allow money access to cheap labor and the poorer countries access to the larger money pool of the market. Eventually destroying the working class of the larger nation and thinning the job market to nothing.
China has the benefit of being the biggest market and accepting slave wages for its citizens. They strike these deals with fingers crossed behind their back.
Make no mistake, this is just codifying the theft they are perpetrating on their allies in the form of technology, resources, and manpower.
Their goal is exceptionally clear right now: domination of Asia major , SE Asia/South Pacific, and Africa. When complete they will advance their military goals.
It's not hard to see, but now they will have a cheerleader in the WH and well you see where that goes.

SLAM said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

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The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business

---

Quote:

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Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

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If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

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The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed

---

Biden on Monday about the RCEP:

Quote:

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"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."

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https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com

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Signing a free trade deal with China means they will hold you to it while they will violate every single aspect of the agreement. They care nothing about adhering to these deals at all.

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It's either watch china take over in Asia and take away our exports, or WE start a group, and leave China no choice but to join on OUR terms.

And if we don't think they'll honor our terms, keep them out.

eric76 said:

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I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.

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Because we keep getting fugged

I personally Iike getting the better deal on our end. Don't you or would you like to trade?

I'd add that I'm fine with Lighthizer's current approach of individual trade agreements putting America interest first. Unfortunately it will all be undone by Biden as moves back back to globalism (aka giving away America to stabilize other countries).

It's actually funny seeing all these SJWs and BLMs get played. There's nothing, NOTHING, doing more damage to less fortunate Americans, including those of color, than globalization. The entire premise of it is to focus on the poor elsewhere, which inherently means paying less attention to your own. The Dems are going to try to put this on the backs of the middle class but that's just going to result in squashing them to the lower class. They're treating the middle class like fossil fuels, a temporary resource to be eliminated for other interests.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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SLAM said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

---

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business

---

Quote:

---

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

---

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

---

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed

---

Biden on Monday about the RCEP:

Quote:

---

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."

---

https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com

---

Signing a free trade deal with China means they will hold you to it while they will violate every single aspect of the agreement. They care nothing about adhering to these deals at all.

---

It's either watch china take over in Asia and take away our exports, or WE start a group, and leave China no choice but to join on OUR terms.

And if we don't think they'll honor our terms, keep them out.

---

You never sign a free trade agreement with them at all. You sign a trade deal and force them, and only them, to accept tariffs. You can't force compliance within China so you enforce it outside of the country by making it so that their corner cutting and illegal subsidizing nets them nothing. It may hurt you a bit but this is the only way of making an even playing field with an unreliable actor who will lie, cheat, and steal to beat you.

Since we have by far and away the dominate military and navy, we can do this.

Hillary abandoning TPP in her campaign pissed me off so much, she should have explained why free trade is good instead of catering to the Berniebros.

Doesn't help that many people thought it was a trade deal with China.

CondensedFoggyAggie, your posting style is reminiscence of John Maplethorpe...just sayin'..

eric76 said:

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I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.

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Do everyone a favor and go ahead and move to China where you belong.

AgBMF42 said:

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Hillary abandoning TPP in her campaign pissed me off so much, she should have explained why free trade is good instead of catering to the Berniebros.

Doesn't help that many people thought it was a trade deal with China.

---

Stop calling it free trade.

China wasn't going to be part of the TPP, that was trumpeted as a reason to join it and empower the other Asian countries and make the US less reliant on China. That was basically a crock of caca.

China was going to control the smaller Asian countries via their raw material inputs and ability to provide capital. What the TPP would have done is allowed China to have access to the US in lower duty fashion or no duty access while providing the countries of Asia with the lots of inputs and even easy transhipped goods.

The country of origin rules for the TPP were nebulous and very much slanted towards lower transformation requirements and enabling easy access Chinese products to the US. The devil is in the details with any supposed "Free Trade" agreements and the US, just like it has with NAFTA/USMCA, will get some material benefit, but it will lose out American companies and individuals getting manufacturing or value added benefit. Thus the profit center or benefit for the US becomes the "traded dollar" portion, which further erodes US controlled manufacturing capability. Not everything in the world is aircraft and tractor assembly nor retail sales.

I'm going to personally admit I never understood at all what was in the TPP and I'm willing to bet that 99.99% of the folks posting on this thread don't either. We are probably all arguing items in the TPP that aren't in there or are different than what we think. I saw so much flip flopping on this issue you never really knew what was good or bad about it.

Who all has actually read it?

I read certain sections of it, mainly related to Textiles. It was a bad thing for anyone working in Textiles in the western hemisphere, in a big way. The rules for origin were more lax and less detailed than the CAFTA or the USMCA. With rising costs in China, what it was going to allow was for China to receive more of the net cost of Textile products as currently China pays full column one duty rates to the US. By having goods made in a TPP country they were going to eliminate those duties. Less $$ for the US Treasury.

Currently China skirts a lot of duties via "first sale" transactions with shell US companies, they do this a ton in Textiles, and probably with a lot of other things. But with that "first sale" transaction there is scrutiny and possible tax consecuenses on the US shell company. The TPP was going to put the shell company in one of the other Asian countries, where they could really max out the benefit.

eric76 said:

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I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.

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For the same reason that Britain should have banned trade with Nazi Germany. Because of British sacrosanct "free trade" ideology, the Germans gleaned aviation technology that helped develop the ME-109 fighter aircraft. HTH.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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pacecar02 said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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ttu_85 said:

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Yet you are a huge Biden backer and democrat. I dont get it.

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Honestly, not to derail this thread or get into an argument, but likewise I don't get why some people think he's a Chinese puppet. Biden "... blasted Beijing for its actions in Hong Kong, dubbed its policies toward Muslim minorities in the western region of Xinjiang "unconscionable" and called the Chinese president a "thug.""

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All while Hunter and Joe's brother were raking in millions

It's called talking out the side of ones head, nothing more than lip service

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I'll be happy to look into the evidence for that once Tucker finds hunters laptop contents he seems to have conveniently forgotten about.

But in any case I'm looking to see how we can move forward in asia and not China

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This from a member (for which you should be embarrassed) of the Issue Du Jour Party. "Crisis at the Border!" and all the other bull**** stories that just pooof their way out of the news

China is a ruthlessly dishonest and deceitful trading "partner" that steals relentlessly.

How do you engage in mutually beneficial free trade with that?

SLAM said:

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CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

SLAM said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

---

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business

---

Quote:

---

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

---

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

---

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed

---

Biden on Monday about the RCEP:

Quote:

---

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."

---

https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com

---

Signing a free trade deal with China means they will hold you to it while they will violate every single aspect of the agreement. They care nothing about adhering to these deals at all.

---

It's either watch china take over in Asia and take away our exports, or WE start a group, and leave China no choice but to join on OUR terms.

And if we don't think they'll honor our terms, keep them out.

---

You never sign a free trade agreement with them at all. You sign a trade deal and force them, and only them, to accept tariffs. You can't force compliance within China so you enforce it outside of the country by making it so that their corner cutting and illegal subsidizing nets them nothing. It may hurt you a bit but this is the only way of making an even playing field with an unreliable actor who will lie, cheat, and steal to beat you.

Since we have by far and away the dominate military and navy, we can do this.

---

Point taken, we want the same thing basically. I just want us and our allies, who would pick us rather than China, to shut them out.

And yes we have a much better military, but its financed by our world leading economy, and I just don't want to give that up.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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FCBlitz said:

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It achieves just the opposite. We relent our position to a lesser degree over in SE Asia. Ask yourself this. "If the purpose of joining the CPTPP was to strengthen our position with China", then why did we allow China the Spratly Islands at the expense of all of the countries that have legitimate rights to that area?

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What are you talking about? This in 2016 where we forced the Chinese to back down over the Spratly Islands?

Quote:

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Mr Obama raised the stakes with Mr Xi after US intelligence concluded that China was moving towards reclaiming land at the shoal where Chinese and Philippines ships engaged in a high-stakes confrontation in 2012.

Following the meeting in Washington, China withdrew its ships from the area. That gave the White House a victory that some officials saw as vindication for a tougher approach than over the previous three years when it failed to force China to curb its controversial activities in the South China Sea.

---

https://www.ft.com/content/c63264a4-47f1-11e6-8d68-72e9211e86ab

In any case, I don't care about Obama or Trump in this matter, I just care about the future. Surely you don't want China to lead the Asian regions economy at the expense of ours?

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I was there. The administration Did not do anything until China settled in.

The Vietnamese are beyond angry at China.

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

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SLAM said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

SLAM said:

---

CondensedFoggyAggie said:

---

I know a lot of you hate the Obama Trans-Pacific Partnership, but that was designed for the US to expand economic influence in Asia, and most importantly, leave China out.

In 2019, US exports to ASEAN, Japan, and Korea was around 220 billion(agriculture, fuel, machinery being tops). We do NOT want this number to go down because of this agreement.

Quote:

---

The Regional Comprehensive Economic Partnership (RCEP), brings together countries that comprise some 2.2 billion people and 30% of the world's economic output. The signatories are Australia, China, Japan, South Korea and New Zealand and the 10 members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN.) The pact is meant to reduce trade barriers and make it easier for the regional neighbors to do business

---

Quote:

---

Experts say the deal is a clear marker of both China's power and waning American influence in the Asia-Pacific region. Even U.S. treaty allies like Japan, South Korea and Australia moved to strike a bargain with China in the absence of an alternative, observers note.

---

If you're wondering, there's still a chance to damage Chinas influence. Most Asian countries are deeply skeptical of China, want America leading an agreement, and are waiting with a modified TPP

Quote:

---

The [TPP] agreement morphed into the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership (CPTPP), which 11 nations including Japan, Canada and Australia have signed

---

Biden on Monday about the RCEP:

Quote:

---

"We make up 25% of the economy in the world," Biden said of the U.S. "We need to be aligned with the other democracies, another 25% or more so that we can set the rules of the road instead of having China and others dictate outcomes because they are the only game in town."

---

https://time.com/5912325/rcep-china-trade-deal-us/?utm_source=reddit.com

---

Signing a free trade deal with China means they will hold you to it while they will violate every single aspect of the agreement. They care nothing about adhering to these deals at all.

---

It's either watch china take over in Asia and take away our exports, or WE start a group, and leave China no choice but to join on OUR terms.

And if we don't think they'll honor our terms, keep them out.

---

You never sign a free trade agreement with them at all. You sign a trade deal and force them, and only them, to accept tariffs. You can't force compliance within China so you enforce it outside of the country by making it so that their corner cutting and illegal subsidizing nets them nothing. It may hurt you a bit but this is the only way of making an even playing field with an unreliable actor who will lie, cheat, and steal to beat you.

Since we have by far and away the dominate military and navy, we can do this.

---

Point taken, we want the same thing basically. I just want us and our allies, who would pick us rather than China, to shut them out.

And yes we have a much better military, but its financed by our world leading economy, and I just don't want to give that up.

---

We won't. China has poor innovation ability and is terrible at real creativity. You don't give them access to anything you have, ever. You deny their students and you deny their visas. It's clear as day that China is conducting massive corporate espionage.

The Chinese will be the biggest threat in the future. We must be willing to make sacrifices to fight them on all fronts.

MouthBQ98 said:

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China is a ruthlessly dishonest and deceitful trading "partner" that steals relentlessly.

How do you engage in mutually beneficial free trade with that?

---

I'm not saying we should sign a free trade agreement with them at all. I'd go even further than you and say they're a rabid, disease ridden donkey

All I'm saying is that they want to play the ringleader in Asia, and cut off US exports to the region and increase theirs. Not to mention eventually owning all the countries.

The other kids in the playground hate China, and would rather increase ties with America, but America is kinda busy with some other stuff and isn't interested.

eric76 said:

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I've never understood why the cult is so much against Free Trade.

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"China" and "free trade" in the same sentence. LOL

Communist country talking about free trade is like a plantation owners talking about workers rights.

dreyOO said:

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Communist country talking about free trade is like a plantation owners talking about workers rights.

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Exactly. and the nations in Asia know it. Which is why they're waiting with a modified Trans pacific partnership even after the US backed out. And I'm not pointing fingers, just telling you that they would much rather deal with us.

This current new agreement with China is still in its early stages with limited effect... for now.

dreyOO said:

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Communist country talking about free trade is like a plantation owners talking about workers rights.

---

Exactly, and the nations in Asia know it. Which is why they're waiting with a modified Trans pacific partnership even after the US backed out. And I'm not pointing fingers, just telling you that they would much rather deal with us.

This current new agreement with China is still in its early stages with limited effect... for now.