https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-cries-election-fraud-in-court-his-lawyers-dont-11605271267?st=rddbx5kc38czzoa&reflink=article_copyURL_share

Why would Trump's lawyers actively be avoiding the topic of election fraud in court given what we have heard from Trump?

Maybe not all cases involve fraud.

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

Because "hacking" is so very 2016?

Proc92 said:

---

Maybe not all cases involve fraud.

---

I tend to agree. Prevention of poll observers is not complying with statute. While it can contribute towards perpetuating a fraud it isn't fraud by itself.

This article is trash. It's cherry picking the weakest arguments from the affidavits to prove that the rest are unfounded. Go read some of them there is legitimate concerns about poll watchers not being able to see or contest ballots and even being barred from re-entering the room.

Proc92 said:

---

Maybe not all cases involve fraud.

---

This is the correct answer. The case in PA is alledging PA officials broke the law regarding mail-in ballots. Notice who we are accusing. Not team biden, not the DNC, but the arbiters of the election.

If you are making a case for fraud, you need to name the bad actors (team biden, dominion, whatever). If you are making the case that the results are tainted, you file against the state.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

Wow. That all make sense

But who is president in the meantime?

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

Wow. That all make sense

But who is president in the meantime?

---

Wouldn't Biden be president then?

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

Remember when all we heard for 3.5 years was "Collusion" from the swamp creatures and the Democratic National Media, yet that is not a valid legal theory to argue in court. This is the same thing.

Words/terms, like "fraud", are legal terms of art that have very specific meaning & elements. However these terms are not used by the general public & media in the legal sense, but as an expression of their view of the credibility of the process. When you are in a courtroom, there are legal standards that must be met to level these types of charges and they haven't even started discovery yet. Instead, this is likely why the Trump campaign is focusing on more systemic & "equal protection" arguments now related to the process (poll watchers, curing ballots, chain of custody for MIB etc) right now. Then, once they get into the discovery/investigation phase IF they find credible evidence of "fraud" (in the legal sense) then they amend their pleadings & off we go.

Legal pleadings are NOT required to include all of your evidence but rather to provide "fair notice" of the claims being made and are routinely amended/changed as the case progresses. So, we all need to be patient and let the process play out and see what EVIDENCE the Trump team can gather.

Regardless, what happened in PA is an absolute disgrace & should be embarrassing for all officials involved!

NefariousAg said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

Wow. That all make sense

But who is president in the meantime?

---

Wouldn't Biden be president then?

---

I think that depends on whether or not enough states certify their votes and he gets 270 electors...

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

October. This is perfect for our 2 minute attention span.

I heard we can mail it in and get this over October 2020.

BMX Bandit said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

I think thats the point of the OP. If this evidence exists, its time to get it in front of these courts if this date is going to be met. whats the holdup?

---

This...

And not just because people are antsy and have short attention spans...

If real evidence exists, you gotta get out there and start controlling the narrative with evidence that no one can ignore...

BMX Bandit said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

I think thats the point of the OP. If this evidence exists, its time to get it in front of these courts if this date is going to be met. whats the holdup?

---

That's exactly what I am getting at. I'm just not sure why there seems to be so much distance between what is being said by Trump and Rudy and the actual actions his team is taking in the court room.

If the evidence is there, then show it.

RedHand said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

He's trolling. Ignore him.

---

Quote:

---

Judge Richard Haaz pressed: "I understand. I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?"

"To my knowledge at present, no," Mr. Goldstein said.

---

Is Trump's lawyer trolling too?

NefariousAg said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

Wow. That all make sense

But who is president in the meantime?

---

Wouldn't Biden be president then?

---

Not if the SCOTUS issues some sort of injunction prohibiting state certification, or the electoral college from convening

It's all put on hold until it's litigated

So who is president in the meantime?

I honestly don't know

I was talking about the timeline BMX was presenting on the court cases.

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

I don't think recounts will help

The ballots are already there. How do you prove which one is a fraud and which one is not?

Fraudulent ballots have to be caught before they are cast

After that, they're just mixed in with everything else

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

At first I couldn't tell if this was satire or not, but when I got to this line, it was a dead giveaway.

Well played, BMX. But you have to be careful around here with the gullible

BMX Bandit said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

I think thats the point of the OP. If this evidence exists, its time to get it in front of these courts if this date is going to be met. whats the holdup?

---

And I think we all know the answer to that question.

Quote:

---

Not if the SCOTUS issues some sort of injunction prohibiting state certification, or the electoral college from convening

---

If this is the plan, then may as well start getting the President Biden business cards printed.

The new Speaker of the House installed in January 2021 becomes Acting President under the Twentieth Amendment and federal statute.

Now, that is not to say that the Twelfth Amendment doesn't kick in earlier and we go to a Contingent Election with House determining by state who is the President and the Senate determining the VP. But if that process doesn't have a result by January 20th 2021, then the Speaker of the House becomes acting President until it is resolved between the House and Senate.

Captain Pablo said:

---

TexAgs91 said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

whoa whoa whoa whoa.... October 2021?! WTH There is definitely enough to show fraud by December 14th and force state wide recounts in swing states.

---

I don't think recounts will help

The ballots are already there. How do you prove which one is a fraud and which one is not?

Fraudulent ballots have to be caught before they are cast

After that, they're just mixed in with everything else

---

Alito ordered the ballots after 11/3 to be separated. If they can't do that then either the courts must decide who won in Pennsylvania or it goes to the House. Especially if other states are F'd up too.

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

I believe he is also entitled to get another term at that point as well. The hoax mueller report and phony impeachment qualified him for Term #3, and once those depositions are finished up, SCOTUS can go ahead and award him Term #4 as well

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

This post reminds of this article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-president-lawrence-lessig-post-686077%3famp=1

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

Captain Pablo said:

---

BMX Bandit said:

---

I read in another thread the lawyers are playing the long game. After discovery and depositions, then they will have what is needed. October 2021 is when this will come to a head.

---

Interesting, and I also believe that the long game is the only way Trump pulls this out.

So who is president in the meantime?

What happens if Trump ultimately prevails in October 2021?

---

October 21 is only when they will actually get enough discovery and depositions. They still will have to file motions, or go to trial. Don't expect district court judges to rule in Trump's favor. So its likely November 2022 when a circuit court hears this, hopefully they expedite it so we have a ruling early 2023. SCOTUS then puts Trump in office by summer 2024.

But jokes on the deep state. Trump will then be eligible for 4 more years.

---

Wow. That all make sense

But who is president in the meantime?

---

Me.


I will use all possible power to leave everyone the **** alone.

EOs to repeal everything and if you don't support me, you're racist.

The guy, BMX, is screwing with you.

As to the reasoning why they haven't alleged fraud in those court cases, it's because they aren't trying to prove fraud at this point because it's harder to prove than errors. The examples cited of not claiming fraud apply to specific cases regarding specific ballots being disallowed for alleged errors, but the principle applies to all of the legal challenges right now.

I think many on here are deluding themselves into thinking that significant enough widespread fraud can easily be found after the fact. Elections which provide anonymity by design and are controlled at a local level in many cases by partisan officials make it very difficult to prove widespread fraud after the votes have been cast and counted.

However, I would not expect fraud to be part of any legal pleadings at this point because it's only been a week. Right now they're simply trying to show enough examples of irregularities and issues to allow for a pause and a closer look. That's the short-term goal.

If they get the closer look and start tying things together, then MAYBE they can find evidence to support a legal claim of widespread fraud. But the reality that many of the more frequent posters on here haven't come to grips with it's analogous to completing a Hail Mary, recovering the onside kick, and completing another Hail Mary.

If you want to prevent fraud from changing the election results you really have to do it on the front end. Doing it after the fact is almost impossible. The only real hope of establishing widespread fraud sufficient to change the election in one fell swoop is the voting machine conspiracy theory not only being true, but being sloppy enough in its implementation to be provable. And people are getting way ahead of themselves in thinking either of those things are likely at all.

If Trump loses the challenges to the voting results, which is by far the most likely outcome, it won't have been losing the legal challenges which cost him. It will be, among other things like CoVID and him being a butthole costing him real votes, the failure of the Trump administration and Rs to adequately plan, prepare for, and prevent fraud during early voting and on Election Day and the day after.

SexyAg said:

---

Proc92 said:

---

Maybe not all cases involve fraud.

---

I tend to agree. Prevention of poll observers is not complying with statute. While it can contribute towards perpetuating a fraud it isn't fraud by itself.

---

Correct, but it does allow for the act of fraud to take place which is huge, for either side.

You don't want to lie to a judge you have to deal with again in the future.