jt2hunt said:

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eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Decay said:

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So they felt like the claims needed to be refuted. That's not what they said. They said that the claims required them to do so.

It's an exaggeration. So you're out to refute false claims, inaccurate claims, and misleading claims and by page two you're already making sensational statements. It's playing the victim. It hurts the credibility of their argument.

That's what I'm thinking.

---

Maricopa County election officials were given every opportunity to participate in the audit, appear before the state senate to refute or explain abnomalies in the data. They flat out refused to give either refutations (with back-up data) nor explanations.

So at this late date, Maricopa County election officials have the credibility of a gnat.

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They complied completely with the real audits.

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LOL, delusional as usual.

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Weird, the Arizona legislators have authority over the election committee and demanded an audit. Hell, they even issued subpoenas, that were backed by the courts, and these election administrators still refused to comply with legal subpoenas.

Seems like an excessive fine if it causes the firm to shut down.

Shut down comes as the company remains mired in legal disputes over public records and was sanctioned with $50,000 fine today for each day it doesn’t turn over records. Abrupt fall for a company that led a high profile effort celebrated by Trump and GOP months ago

— Sam Levine (@srl) January 7, 2022

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/07/cyber-ninjas-company-that-led-arizona-gop-election-audit-is-shutting-down.html

Quote:

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Cyber Ninjas, the company that led a partisan review of 2020 ballots in Arizona, is closing down following a scathing report by election officials and the threat of $50,000 a day in fines.

"Cyber Ninjas is shutting down. All employees have been let go," Rod Thomson, the company's representative, said in a text message Thursday evening.

The Florida-based company, founded in 2013, has less than a dozen employees, according to its LinkedIn page.

A reporter for The Guardian earlier Thursday reported Cyber Ninjas' plans to shut down.

Maricopa County Superior Court Judge John Hannah said he would impose a $50,000 fine against Cyber Ninjas every day until it hands over documents related to the so-called audit after the Arizona Republic newspaper filed a public records request, The Associated Press reported Thursday.

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richardag said:

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jt2hunt said:

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eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Decay said:

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So they felt like the claims needed to be refuted. That's not what they said. They said that the claims required them to do so.

It's an exaggeration. So you're out to refute false claims, inaccurate claims, and misleading claims and by page two you're already making sensational statements. It's playing the victim. It hurts the credibility of their argument.

That's what I'm thinking.

---

Maricopa County election officials were given every opportunity to participate in the audit, appear before the state senate to refute or explain abnomalies in the data. They flat out refused to give either refutations (with back-up data) nor explanations.

So at this late date, Maricopa County election officials have the credibility of a gnat.

---

They complied completely with the real audits.

---

LOL, delusional as usual.

---

Weird, the Arizona legislators have authority over the election committee and demanded an audit. Hell, they even issued subpoenas, that were backed by the courts, and these election administrators still refused to comply with legal subpoenas.

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There were legitimate election audits prior to the witch hunt.

In an audit, you have people competent in the field verifying that everything is as it should be. That wasn't the case with the Cyber Ninjas. They were there to prove their belief that it was a fraud, not to discover the truth about anything. As such, it was no audit.

TRM said:

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Seems like an excessive fine if it causes the firm to shut down.

Shut down comes as the company remains mired in legal disputes over public records and was sanctioned with $50,000 fine today for each day it doesn’t turn over records. Abrupt fall for a company that led a high profile effort celebrated by Trump and GOP months ago

— Sam Levine (@srl) January 7, 2022

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/07/cyber-ninjas-company-that-led-arizona-gop-election-audit-is-shutting-down.html

Quote:

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Cyber Ninjas, the company that led a partisan review of 2020 ballots in Arizona, is closing down following a scathing report by election officials and the threat of $50,000 a day in fines.

"Cyber Ninjas is shutting down. All employees have been let go," Rod Thomson, the company's representative, said in a text message Thursday evening.

The Florida-based company, founded in 2013, has less than a dozen employees, according to its LinkedIn page.

A reporter for The Guardian earlier Thursday reported Cyber Ninjas' plans to shut down.

Maricopa County Superior Court Judge John Hannah said he would impose a $50,000 fine against Cyber Ninjas every day until it hands over documents related to the so-called audit after the Arizona Republic newspaper filed a public records request, The Associated Press reported Thursday.

---

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It seems to me that they are trying to avoid turning over possibly incriminating evidence against themselves. I don't think it works that way, though -- aren't the orders to turn over the documents binding on those in charge whether or not the company still exists?

So Pfizer is guilty because they did not want to turn over vaccine trial records?

You've bought into all of Jen Fifield's bogus talking points. She and her Arizona Republic colleagues have done everything in their power to discredit the audit, declaring it illegitimate without any semblance of objectivity. Don't waste your valuable keystrokes replying to me, I won't read it. Instead, I'll continue to support state efforts in AZ to ensure only legal votes are counted.

TRM said:

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Seems like an excessive fine if it causes the firm to shut down.

Shut down comes as the company remains mired in legal disputes over public records and was sanctioned with $50,000 fine today for each day it doesn’t turn over records. Abrupt fall for a company that led a high profile effort celebrated by Trump and GOP months ago

— Sam Levine (@srl) January 7, 2022

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/07/cyber-ninjas-company-that-led-arizona-gop-election-audit-is-shutting-down.html

Quote:

---

Cyber Ninjas, the company that led a partisan review of 2020 ballots in Arizona, is closing down following a scathing report by election officials and the threat of $50,000 a day in fines.

"Cyber Ninjas is shutting down. All employees have been let go," Rod Thomson, the company's representative, said in a text message Thursday evening.

The Florida-based company, founded in 2013, has less than a dozen employees, according to its LinkedIn page.

A reporter for The Guardian earlier Thursday reported Cyber Ninjas' plans to shut down.

Maricopa County Superior Court Judge John Hannah said he would impose a $50,000 fine against Cyber Ninjas every day until it hands over documents related to the so-called audit after the Arizona Republic newspaper filed a public records request, The Associated Press reported Thursday.

---

---

It's called "lawfare" and the left are masters of it. They use the courts to destroy their opponents financially, even if the target eventually wins, it ends up being a Pyrrhic victory as they are completely destroyed financially and often their reputation is destroyed as well.

Maricopa County Republicans are McCain Republicans. And as we saw in 2020, the McCains supported Biden.

What's the ninjas reason for not turning over the documents? If they shut down, they will for sure have to

jt2hunt said:

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So Pfizer is guilty because they did not want to turn over vaccine trial records?

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I haven't kept up on that. Which judge in which court has ordered them to turn the records over?

neil88 said:

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You've bought into all of Jen Fifield's bogus talking points. She and her Arizona Republic colleagues have done everything in their power to discredit the audit, declaring it illegitimate without any semblance of objectivity. Don't waste your valuable keystrokes replying to me, I won't read it. Instead, I'll continue to support state efforts in AZ to ensure only legal votes are counted.

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Who is Jen Filfield? I've never heard her name before.

The audit is its' own discredit.

ETA: It seems to me that people who go around accusing people of listening to "bogus talking points" are really the ones listening to "bogus talking points". Instead of trying to engage in a coherent discussion of the matter, they just throw around false allegations to "discredit" those who they disagree with.

If you have read anything regarding the audit from arizonacentral.com or the Arizona Republic, you have read her reporting. She's been biased against the audit from the get-go and pro Sec of State Katie Hobbs.

Jovan P is a CISSP (etc.) guy, and Cyber Ninjas is doing just fine according to he and Doug.

Also, "ethical" is a word people should remember. It's the E in CEH.

Lastly, the fines (for now) were misreported because the judge turned out to be a lib-donating insider (link added): https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/01/non-partisan-judge-ordered-private-company-cyber-ninjas-give-personal-communications-leftist-newspaper-face-50k-day-fine-donated-campaigns-anti-trump-us-la/

eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Decay said:

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So they felt like the claims needed to be refuted. That's not what they said. They said that the claims required them to do so.

It's an exaggeration. So you're out to refute false claims, inaccurate claims, and misleading claims and by page two you're already making sensational statements. It's playing the victim. It hurts the credibility of their argument.

That's what I'm thinking.

---

Maricopa County election officials were given every opportunity to participate in the audit, appear before the state senate to refute or explain abnomalies in the data. They flat out refused to give either refutations (with back-up data) nor explanations.

So at this late date, Maricopa County election officials have the credibility of a gnat.

---

They complied completely with the real audits.

---

By "real audits", you mean the audits lauded by Democrats/liberals and the MCBOS? If those groups approved of the "real audits", then you know with absolute certainty they were not "real audits", especially the former group. The left would NEVER approve of any kind of oversight that wasn't stacked heavily in their favor. Lying, cheating, and stealing is the ONLY way their ideology, agenda, and party has a chance of winning any kind of argument or election. Why would you ever believe a word that comes out of the mouths of a group of pathological liars, like American leftists?

Filled up the database with goodies, so yes, major player in that space.

P.S. This was all the "flair" I got. 29/30 on the cruise's classic-rock trivia contest. I'm a classic-rock knowing machine...along with being an extraordinary talent evaluator (eth ppl).

People forget that Maricopa County outsourced most of the 2020 election to other private companies such as Dominion and Runbeck Elections Services.

If one has never heard about Runbeck, research them.

aggieforester05 said:

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eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Decay said:

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So they felt like the claims needed to be refuted. That's not what they said. They said that the claims required them to do so.

It's an exaggeration. So you're out to refute false claims, inaccurate claims, and misleading claims and by page two you're already making sensational statements. It's playing the victim. It hurts the credibility of their argument.

That's what I'm thinking.

---

Maricopa County election officials were given every opportunity to participate in the audit, appear before the state senate to refute or explain abnomalies in the data. They flat out refused to give either refutations (with back-up data) nor explanations.

So at this late date, Maricopa County election officials have the credibility of a gnat.

---

They complied completely with the real audits.

---

By "real audits", you mean the audits lauded by Democrats/liberals and the MCBOS? If those groups approved of the "real audits", then you know with absolute certainty they were not "real audits", especially the former group. The left would NEVER approve of any kind of oversight that wasn't stacked heavily in their favor. Lying, cheating, and stealing is the ONLY way their ideology, agenda, and party has a chance of winning any kind of argument or election. Why would you ever believe a word that comes out of the mouths of a group of pathological liars, like American leftists?

---

The audits overseen by Republican election officials who actually understand election law and procedures.

Quote:

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The group said in its complaint to Raffensperger's office that many counties were already missing the video footage in early 2021 even though some of the elections were still being contested in court, suggesting it violated both the state retention requirement and the federal requirement.

Attorney General Merrick Garland last year issued a memo reminding all election jurisdictions nationwide of their obligations to preserve federal election records for 22 months after the 2020 election.

The Garland memo stated: "The Civil Rights Act of 1960, now codified at 52 U.S.C. 20701-20706, governs certain '[f]ederal election records.' Section 301 of the Act requires state and local election officials to 'retain and preserve' all records relating to any 'act requisite to voting' for twenty-two months after the conduct of 'any general, special, or primary election' at which citizens vote for 'President, Vice President, presidential elector, Member of the Senate, [or] Member of the House of Representatives,' 52 U.S.C. 20701.

The materials covered by Section 301 extend beyond 'papers' to include other 'records.' Jurisdictions must therefore also retain and preserve records created in digital or electronic form."

Waller, the Fulton County spokeswoman, said Georgia's largest county doesn't believe the federal law covers the drop box video surveillance. "Video of people dropping ballots into drop boxes are not election records and are governed by the SEB rule," she said.

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Quote:

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The revelation that some of Georgia's largest counties destroyed the surveillance video means Raffensperger's team most likely will be limited to reviewing the footage that True the Vote or other groups obtained a year ago at the start of their investigations into harvesting. Officials estimate that footage covers about 15% of all of the drop boxes in the major urban areas around Atlanta.

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Quote:

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But Phill Kline, the former Kansas attorney general and current head of the election integrity group The Amistad Project, said the federal law clearly would cover video showing the depositing of ballots at drop boxes.

"The preservation of all election materials is a crucial part of the civil rights act and the law's assurance of transparent elections to prevent fraud," he told Just the News. "Moreover, election officials promised the American people when they in an unprecedented fashion recklessly utilized hundreds of ballot drop boxes that appropriate security measures would be taken and fraud would be detected through video surveillance.

"To learn this promise has been breached, evidence has been destroyed and the law broken is astonishing. It is this lack of accountability and transparency by public officials, and not citizens questioning the manner in which the election was conducted, which is undermining faith in American elections."

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Link

eric76 said:

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aggieforester05 said:

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eric76 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Decay said:

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So they felt like the claims needed to be refuted. That's not what they said. They said that the claims required them to do so.

It's an exaggeration. So you're out to refute false claims, inaccurate claims, and misleading claims and by page two you're already making sensational statements. It's playing the victim. It hurts the credibility of their argument.

That's what I'm thinking.

---

Maricopa County election officials were given every opportunity to participate in the audit, appear before the state senate to refute or explain abnomalies in the data. They flat out refused to give either refutations (with back-up data) nor explanations.

So at this late date, Maricopa County election officials have the credibility of a gnat.

---

They complied completely with the real audits.

---

By "real audits", you mean the audits lauded by Democrats/liberals and the MCBOS? If those groups approved of the "real audits", then you know with absolute certainty they were not "real audits", especially the former group. The left would NEVER approve of any kind of oversight that wasn't stacked heavily in their favor. Lying, cheating, and stealing is the ONLY way their ideology, agenda, and party has a chance of winning any kind of argument or election. Why would you ever believe a word that comes out of the mouths of a group of pathological liars, like American leftists?

---

The audits overseen by Republican election officials who actually understand election law and procedures.

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Yes, the Republican election officials that have shown over and over again throughout the country that covering up their own incompetence is more important than exposing the truth. Again, if Democrats use those audits as evidence of a "fair" election, then you know they were phony. Democrats/liberals NEVER deal in the truth. There's always some kind of angle. Vote recounts do absolutely nothing to exclude fraudulent ballots.

eric76 said:

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jt2hunt said:

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So Pfizer is guilty because they did not want to turn over vaccine trial records?

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I haven't kept up on that. Which judge in which court has ordered them to turn the records over?

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Maybe ft worth
They have to turn over 50k pages a month

eric76 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Eric, please go somewhere else.

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Because you don't like facing up to the fact that Trump lost the election and that the only steal was what Trump and his radical cult tried to do when he lost?

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Yes. You have everything solved, so please leave.

Cannot believe I typed all that and TA crapped out. Here we go again.

Everything you need is in this thread and has been discussed and cited fully. If you are really interested in it, go back and read. I am betting, because you have only had this user name since July and started posting late on this thread, this is a sock. One created because your previous posting proved you to be a troll, or a shill only looking to gaslight the talking points.

Regardless, some bullet points you can start with:

MCBoE likes to hang their hat on transparency based on laughable "audits" by Pro V&V and SLI

https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66844/Post-Audit-Report
https://www.maricopa.gov/DocumentCenter/View/66843/SLI-Compliance-Forensic-Audit-Report?bidId=

Pro V&V was a whopping 10 pages and they only tested 5 ICP2 devices. Even more laughable is even one of those was missing its security seal and their response was it "could have been missing for legitimate reasons" without actually finding out what that was. Their conclusion was BS as well

Quote:

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Based on the results obtained during the Field Audit, Pro V&V determines the D-Suite 5.5-B Voting
System, on all evaluated components, is the voting system software and hardware certified for use in
Maricopa County and are the same as the software and hardware used in the conduction of the November 2020 General Election

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Great legal speak for "well, everything we looked at was cool." Can't speak to the other 345 scanners and countless other pieces of hardware.

SLI was a bit more thorough, but laughable all the same. 35 ICP machines looked at, but hey, 5 didn't power on, 6 were missing their SIM cards, and one was a spare that wasn't actually used in the audit. No mention in either audit how these machines were selected and by who. Why also would a machines SIM or memory card be removed and used on another machine? Each machine is supposed to have its own, paired and serial numbered, to match the machine as stated by Dominions SOP documentation. SLI asked, MCBoE said, they moved them to another machine, and no follow up as to why/what happened to the others that were tied to those machines.

So ya, MCBoE is so obviously serious and transparent with the two companies who were charged with auditing their own work. That is right, Pro V&V / SLI were paid to setup the voting system. No conflict of interest there. Fox guarding the hen house and then floating softball questions to MCBoE with no follow up questions as to why.

As to a list of items in the CN audit where MCBoE did not comply or participate.

https://www.azsenaterepublicans.com/cyber-ninjas-report

Volume III

5.7.8 Missing subpoena items

5.7.12 January 12 and July 26 subpoena's for access to registration system and "records of authorized and unauthorized access" ignored. The county even replied they "were unaware of a breach" even though the MCBoE confirmed, in a media report December 4, 2020, voter information had been stolen.

6.2 not all log files retained for 22 months as required by law

6.4.1 EMS DB purged February 2nd, the day before the Pro V&V/SLI audits, , MCBoE chose not to respond at time of report when asked to explain the windows and EMS purges.

6.4.3 Corrupt ballot images 1.3 MM ballots scanned without issue prior to November 1. After November 1, 263,139 ballot images were scanned and completely unreadable. MCBoE was asked to provide new copies of these images, MCBoE didn't respond (no images provided and no explanation why not a single corrupted image happened before 11/1 but over 250k happened after.)

6.5.2 Multiple sections of findings regarding passwords, software patching, etc. not captured/mentioned in either Pro V&V/SLI audits.

6.4.3 List of subpoena items not provided by MCBoE

6.5.6.1.2 "14 days after Arizona Senate described the risk of evidentiary loss due to the continued use of election equiement, and 6 days after Judge Thompson ruled the subpoena neededd to be complied with." A user utilizing "emsadmin" login ran the infamous script to roll security logs. (1) what is it called when you delete data under subpoena? (2) if you have a legitimate reason, login to the device and clear the logs.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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eric76 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Eric, please go somewhere else.

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Because you don't like facing up to the fact that Trump lost the election and that the only steal was what Trump and his radical cult tried to do when he lost?

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Yes. You have everything solved, so please leave.

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Eric can't leave. He has to persuade us that the audits overseen by the very people being audited are legitimate while the one ordered by the elected officials who are responsible for oversight of those being audited is meaningless.

Well, he still won't admit he was wrong from day 1 on Trayvon.

eric76 said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Eric, please go somewhere else.

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Because you don't like facing up to the fact that Trump lost the election and that the only steal was what Trump and his radical cult tried to do when he lost?

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No, because you are a condescending *****.

Quote:

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"14 days after Arizona Senate described the risk of evidentiary loss due to the continued use of election equiement, and 6 days after Judge Thompson ruled the subpoena neededd to be complied with." A user utilizing "emsadmin" login ran the infamous script to roll security logs. (1) what is it called when you delete data under subpoena? (2) if you have a legitimate reason, login to the device and clear the logs.

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Wasn't there some talk that CN had video and knew who did that deletion? Or am I misremembering that?

Cyber Ninja still a thing? Lying about the 74,000 ballots didn't do them in? They have more lives than a Chicago Democrat Alderman.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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"14 days after Arizona Senate described the risk of evidentiary loss due to the continued use of election equiement, and 6 days after Judge Thompson ruled the subpoena neededd to be complied with." A user utilizing "emsadmin" login ran the infamous script to roll security logs. (1) what is it called when you delete data under subpoena? (2) if you have a legitimate reason, login to the device and clear the logs.

---

Wasn't there some talk that CN had video and knew who did that deletion? Or am I misremembering that?

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Yes, during one of the days of testimony, one of the speakers confirmed they had video of the individual at the exact time, at the machine the login was made. They had also confirmed his identity and provided all evidence to the attorney general.

I haven't heard any follow up since. Again, the Senate went on record to state their grave concerns (1) the subpoena was being ignored, and (2) evidence was at risk of being lost while these devices remained in the hands of MCBoE and were not sequestered even still being accessed. The complaint was referred to Judge Thompson who ruled the subpoena must be complied with......then 6 days later, still ignoring the subpoena and the following judges order, some asshat started running a script which rolled/wiped security logs.

What is it called again when data under subpoena is destroyed?

Quote:

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What is it called again when data under subpoena is destroyed?

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Hillaring

Spoliation of evidence. Thanks for the clarification, as well.

Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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What is it called again when data under subpoena is destroyed?

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Hillaring

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"what, like wiping it with a cloth?"

aggiehawg said:

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Spoliation of evidence. Thanks for the clarification, as well.

---

Thank you.

Did a quick look at Arizona law and they list it as a Class 6 felony. I am assuming this would fall under state jurisdiction since they have the authority to establish voting laws and procedures.

My question is with the timeline. If "spoliation" includes "deliberately, negligently, and accidentally destroyed evidence" under subpoena, shouldn't this still be in play?

First subpoenas were issued December 15, 2020 with subsequent subpoenas filed in January and July 2021. They were never complied with and data was lost/destroyed during that time. Even if they were legally challenging turning over the equipment aren't they required, by law to sequester and preserve that equipment until a ruling is made?

Even then, what about the laws around maintaining the data for 22 months? In short, what the hell is the point of having laws if they are not followed or enforced?

We fixed the keg said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Spoliation of evidence. Thanks for the clarification, as well.

---

Thank you.

Did a quick look at Arizona law and they list it as a Class 6 felony. I am assuming this would fall under state jurisdiction since they have the authority to establish voting laws and procedures.

My question is with the timeline. If "spoliation" includes "deliberately, negligently, and accidentally destroyed evidence" under subpoena, shouldn't this still be in play?

First subpoenas were issued December 15, 2020 with subsequent subpoenas filed in January and July 2021. They were never complied with and data was lost/destroyed during that time. Even if they were legally challenging turning over the equipment aren't they required, by law to sequester and preserve that equipment until a ruling is made?

Even then, what about the laws around maintaining the data for 22 months? In short, what the hell is the point of having laws if they are not followed or enforced?

---

The federal law in the Civil Rights Act of 1960 requires retention of all election materials for 22 months following an election involving federal offices. So that is a federal offense.

Then state law comes into play when a valid* subpoena for all of or a portion of those materials is in place but spoliation can be found without a subpoena when there is a duty to maintain those records otherwise. That's what happened here. IOW, there could be both state and federal charges here.

Under Garland's DOJ, the feds will never do anything. Si it is up to the state of Arizona's AG's office to file charges.

*The MCBOS claimed the state senate's subpoenas were invalid, but the issue was taken to the judge who ruled them to be valid. At that point, it became a court order as well as a subpoena. That presented to state senate with an option of going back to the judge for a show cause order for contempt or report the crime to the AG's office, or ultimately both. That is what should have happened.

But Garland's DOJ made threats to the state senate and Karen Fann ended up backing down, relying instead of AG Brnovich to continue with his investigation which would presumably include further subpoenas. I haven't seen much since then of what Brnovich has actually done. Sadly.