Oh I'm not pro-abortion (I don't say pro-choice because that's weasel words used to make it sound more pleasant). I'm just not against morning after pills or other soon after conception terminations. I don't care about sperm or fertilized eggs any more than I do the bacteria that I brush out of my mouth every morning. I do think there is some merit to the heartbeat argument.

hawk1689 said:

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Oh I'm not pro-abortion (I don't say pro-choice because that's weasel words used to make it sound more pleasant). I'm just not against morning after pills or other soon after conception terminations. I don't care about sperm or fertilized eggs any more than I do the bacteria that I brush out of my mouth every morning. I do think there is some merit to the heartbeat argument.

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Try wearing protection or is that not being "responsible or taking accountability "? Don't engage in the act of you can't be responsible enough for the possible outcome.....damn.

As a binary choice I am pro life.
The problem is that I see some nuances that allow me to tolerate, not like, special circumstances. I do not accept abortion as birth control. Certain situations are obvious; rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc.

I find myself tolerating abortion when the child will be born into a very bad situation. In those cases I believe the decision should be made prior to ten weeks. If a decision can't be made prior to ten weeks then you missed the opportunity and should carry to term.

I dislike very much when kids are in orphanages and foster homes. The few horrible incidents I am personally familiar with prevent me from believing it is a good alternative.

I pray for the Lord to ease my pain for thinking this way but it is a real internal struggle.

nu awlins ag said:

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hawk1689 said:

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Oh I'm not pro-abortion (I don't say pro-choice because that's weasel words used to make it sound more pleasant). I'm just not against morning after pills or other soon after conception terminations. I don't care about sperm or fertilized eggs any more than I do the bacteria that I brush out of my mouth every morning. I do think there is some merit to the heartbeat argument.

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Try wearing protection or is that not being "responsible or taking accountability "? Don't engage in the act of you can't be responsible enough for the possible outcome.....damn.

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I'm as anti-abortion as they come, but let's give Hawk a little credit here. You can't go from not-sure to anti-contraception in a flash. :-). Admitting the heartbeat concept has merit is a huge step.

I think in a different direction for the next question for Hawk. Do you believe all taxpayers and all companies providing insurance should be forced to support and pay for abortions of all kinds?

I'm not sure who you're directing that at, but I'm pretty sure I took responsibility for the one I created.

On a societal level though, I don't think it's realistic to expect people not to participate in something If they can't take responsibility.

1) We're wired to want to have sex all the time.
2) People aren't responsible.

If people have a means of canceling a bad decision before it affects an innocent, cognizant life...I'm ok with that.

hawk1689 said:

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I'm not sure who you're directing that at, but I'm pretty sure I took responsibility for the one I created.

On a societal level though, I don't think it's realistic to expect people not to participate in something If they can't take responsibility.

1) We're wired to want to have sex all the time.
2) People aren't responsible.

If people have a means of canceling a bad decision before it affects an innocent, cognizant life...I'm ok with that.

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So you are saying we aren't "wired" to take on responsibility and accountability? Got it. Lame ass excuses....

Yukon Cornelius said:

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People are finally realizing abortion is murder. Hopefully they understand at any point during the pregnancy it is murder. People want to cry about slavery 200 years ago but cheer for the chopping up of babies.

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How do pro choice liberals feel about the delivery of a living baby after the mom was killed in car wreck. Why does the baby become a VIABLE "LIFE" worth saving when the mother is dead, and just a "fetus" when the mother is alive?

Do doctors track down next of kin to see if they want the baby, or does "choice" no longer matter and doctors work to immediately save the baby's life regardless?

Maroon Dawn said:

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Gonna need a paid liberal goalie to explain to us why they his okay and we need to vote Segregationist Joe to make it happen

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jmiller you're up.

LatinAggie1997 said:

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As a binary choice I am pro life.
The problem is that I see some nuances that allow me to tolerate, not like, special circumstances. I do not accept abortion as birth control. Certain situations are obvious; rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc.

I find myself tolerating abortion when the child will be born into a very bad situation. In those cases I believe the decision should be made prior to ten weeks. If a decision can't be made prior to ten weeks then you missed the opportunity and should carry to term.

I dislike very much when kids are in orphanages and foster homes. The few horrible incidents I am personally familiar with prevent me from believing it is a good alternative.

I pray for the Lord to ease my pain for thinking this way but it is a real internal struggle.

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Interesting on the orphanage/foster home angle. I didn't think there was really an issue with that for newborns. It's my understanding that there is generally a long waiting list for adoption of newborns. Although, considering how many abortions happen, if it were abolished there would be a great many more babies up for adoption.

Personally, just because we aren't sure we can provide good homes for all babies is no excuse to murder them in the brutal physical act of abortion. Ending an inconvenient life is no standard for ethical humans.

LatinAggie1997 said:

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As a binary choice I am pro life.
The problem is that I see some nuances that allow me to tolerate, not like, special circumstances. I do not accept abortion as birth control. Certain situations are obvious; rape, incest, danger to the mother, etc.

I find myself tolerating abortion when the child will be born into a very bad situation. In those cases I believe the decision should be made prior to ten weeks. If a decision can't be made prior to ten weeks then you missed the opportunity and should carry to term.

I dislike very much when kids are in orphanages and foster homes. The few horrible incidents I am personally familiar with prevent me from believing it is a good alternative.

I pray for the Lord to ease my pain for thinking this way but it is a real internal struggle.

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Humor me here. If abortion is wrong in certain times, what makes it wrong? Specifically, I'm interested in the circumstances bolded above. If abortion is wrong in the situation where Sam and Jennifer get busy and then decide they aren't ready for a child, what makes it wrong? And why is it wrong to not give that child a chance at life but okay if Sam raped Jennifer? I can't see how, from the child's perspective, the circumstances leading up to his creation should impact his right to life.

KidDoc said:

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hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

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I've had 23 week preemies grow into normal children. The fact that it was ok to kill them 3 weeks prior to that is disturbing.

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I have 23 week preemies living at my house. Outside of rape, incest, or a condition that would kill the mother, I think I'd rather just save the babies and then kill the people who wanted to abort them.

TxTarpon said:

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She is Church of Scientology.
That is all you need to know to determine she is koo koo for coco puffs.

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And still far less crazy than most leftists of today. Unreal.

Faustus said:

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agAngeldad said:

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hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

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When does the soul enter the body? Man can make a test tube baby, of sorts, however, man cannot make a soul.

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Man cannot even make a Soul Man movie anymore.

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Not anymore you mean

My line in the sand is when the life of the mother is in jeopardy. that is the only instance I can rationalize that the baby is not an innocent. Rape incest, etc. are all horrible acts, but the resulting child is innocent of the act.

When it becomes a choice of the mother or the unborn child; now do you choose who lives and who dies?

Liberals:

Bacteria on Mars = life

Heartbeat in the womb = not life

KidDoc said:

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hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

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I've had 23 week preemies grow into normal children. The fact that it was ok to kill them 3 weeks prior to that is disturbing.

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It's more than disturbing. It's evil and wrong.

aggiez03 said:

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hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

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I guess we should defer to the definition of life...

How do paramedics and hospital staff determine is someone is alive or dead?

Is it by their awareness?
Is it when they are struggling for someone not to cut off their life support system?

Or is it by a heartbeart?

When does a baby's heartbeat start?

Quote:

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When Does a Fetus Develop a Heartbeat?

Through the use of ultrasounds, modern science can detect the waves of the baby's heartbeat as early as three weeks after fertilization. Although the child's organs have not yet fully formed, soon after this three-week mark the heart beats between 105 to 122 times per minute.

https://www.hli.org/resources/when-does-a-fetus-develop-a-heartbeat/

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Quote:

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Time Frame

An unborn baby has a heartbeat as early as near the end of the first month of pregnancy, during week four or week five, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. This is just two to three weeks after conception. By this time, the heart is actually pumping blood with a steady rhythm.

https://www.hellomotherhood.com/article/242600-when-does-an-unborn-baby-have-a-heartbeat/

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[url=https://www.hellomotherhood.com/article/242600-when-does-an-unborn-baby-have-a-heartbeat/][/url]

Most women don't know they are pregnant till they miss a period, which is probably 3-4 weeks after conception.

It is murder. It is a life. Your 'awareness' and 'struggle' would not pass any court of law if you were to do it to Memaw, a quadriplegic, or someone in a coma. Why is a baby any different?

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So is Nicky Sixx risen from the dead?

All those medical shows where the Dr saves someone - would you consider them risen?

Hard for me to say that someone is alive based on an organ that can be replaced in today's medical tech. I'm more for brain function as what makes a person.

Regardless - you believe that life begins at some point. A soul. I would agree terminating a soul is murder. To me it's the definition of when that soul becomes a being as to right and wrong. If you believe conception, abortion at any time is murder in my books. Heck - you could believe that it's god's way to try to concieve every chance you get to give a soul a chance.

I understand the want to justify late term abortion because of rape or incest - but if you believe it's a life, I have a hard time with that. If it's a lump of cells with no soul, then there isn't a moral quandry.

TexAgs91 said:

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Would have

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Dated her in high school.

ChrisTAMU said:

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Wasn't she a crazy leftist a few years back or am I confusing her for someone else?

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. Must be someone else. She's on the Trump train.

Kirstie was on the Adam Carolla podcast last week. Good episode. Yeah, she had some things to say about cancel culture too.

dude95 said:

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aggiez03 said:

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hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

---

I guess we should defer to the definition of life...

How do paramedics and hospital staff determine is someone is alive or dead?

Is it by their awareness?
Is it when they are struggling for someone not to cut off their life support system?

Or is it by a heartbeart?

When does a baby's heartbeat start?

Quote:

---

When Does a Fetus Develop a Heartbeat?

Through the use of ultrasounds, modern science can detect the waves of the baby's heartbeat as early as three weeks after fertilization. Although the child's organs have not yet fully formed, soon after this three-week mark the heart beats between 105 to 122 times per minute.

https://www.hli.org/resources/when-does-a-fetus-develop-a-heartbeat/

---

Quote:

---

Time Frame

An unborn baby has a heartbeat as early as near the end of the first month of pregnancy, during week four or week five, according to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. This is just two to three weeks after conception. By this time, the heart is actually pumping blood with a steady rhythm.

https://www.hellomotherhood.com/article/242600-when-does-an-unborn-baby-have-a-heartbeat/

---

[url=https://www.hellomotherhood.com/article/242600-when-does-an-unborn-baby-have-a-heartbeat/][/url]

Most women don't know they are pregnant till they miss a period, which is probably 3-4 weeks after conception.

It is murder. It is a life. Your 'awareness' and 'struggle' would not pass any court of law if you were to do it to Memaw, a quadriplegic, or someone in a coma. Why is a baby any different?

---

So is Nicky Sixx risen from the dead?

All those medical shows where the Dr saves someone - would you consider them risen?

Hard for me to say that someone is alive based on an organ that can be replaced in today's medical tech. I'm more for brain function as what makes a person.

Regardless - you believe that life begins at some point. A soul. I would agree terminating a soul is murder. To me it's the definition of when that soul becomes a being as to right and wrong. If you believe conception, abortion at any time is murder in my books. Heck - you could believe that it's god's way to try to concieve every chance you get to give a soul a chance.

I understand the want to justify late term abortion because of rape or incest - but if you believe it's a life, I have a hard time with that. If it's a lump of cells with no soul, then there isn't a moral quandry.

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Well, biblically, life begins at conception, but your soul has always existed and will always exist.

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations." Jeremiah 1:5

So this indicates that your soul existed PRIOR to being in the womb. How could God know someone who didn't exist?

Biblically, after death, the soul exists forever in Heaven or Hell.

I usually don't try to use Biblical references in discussing abortion, because those believing in abortion either

A) Don't believe in God, so they could care less what the Bible says

B) If they do believe in God, but are pro-abortion, they aren't living Biblically anyway.

If we could just all agree that no abortions after a heartbeat, that would eliminate virtually all abortions, as I mentioned previously there is a heartbeat about 95+% of the time by the time a woman knows she is pregnant.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Wasn't she into Scientology or otherwise crazy?

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Yep, I took the kids trick or treating at her house in Toluca Lake.

She was handing out Scientology brochures for Halloween.

Quote:

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At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure?

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Quote:

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If people have a means of canceling a bad decision before it affects an innocent, cognizant life

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Because the debate is whether or not you're ending a life, the metric you use to determine whether it is a legal/moral action or not have to be consistent across all circumstances. Is it legal to kill a teenager who due to physical or mental problems, is either unable to resist or unaware of what is happening to it?

Quote:

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I understand the want to justify late term abortion because of rape or incest - but if you believe it's a life, I have a hard time with that. If it's a lump of cells with no soul, then there isn't a moral quandry.

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This is why safe, legal, and rare makes zero sense. The argument for it being legal is that you aren't ending a life and it's no different from cutting your hair or removing a cyst. Why would those things need to be rare? IMO, that only really applies to a situation where it is a threat to the mother's life.

30wedge said:

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TexAgs91 said:

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Would have

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Dated her in high school.

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What?
Impressive!

hawk1689 said:

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I struggle with this topic because I don't know the exact point of what I consider it a "life". 5 months is most certainly a point where I would consider it murder. At what point does the fetus gain awareness and show signs of struggle with the abortion procedure? That's probably where I draw the line.

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Usually, the first ultrasound is at 7-8 weeks. There is a damn heartbeat already. What else is needed?

dellgriffith said:

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Abortion is the termination of a life. Termination of any life is a tragedy. There is a reason non-sociopath women are scarred for life after an abortion.

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I went to a "Bodies" exhibit about 8 years ago. (Like in the James Bond movie where the bodies of cadavers are preserved with some type of plastic.

They had a set up showing babies(fetus) at 2 months, 3 months, etc.
They were all tiny humans. Not tadpoles or pigs. We've been lied to since 7th grade science. Look into it. It's a human. No doubt when you see it with your own eyes.