Satellite of Love said:

---

SCCL2020 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

SCCL2020 said:

---

https://www.facebook.com/180884138625980/posts/1466175143430200/?sfnsn=mo

Texas Division Sons of Confederate Veterans states the campus statue is a Confederate statue and have been signing the pro-Sully petition.

---

Educated people are claiming that the Earth is flat.

Doesn't make it true.

---

If you really think the people obsessed with the Confederacy don't know their own statues, I've got a bridge to sell you.

You keep blocking out the evidence in front of you. Just be honest. You don't actually care if it's a Confederate statue or not. You just want to keep it because you're in your feelings over a hunk of metal.

Go track down how many of those signatures are actual Ags and which ones are just Confederate lovers before trying to tell people what it is or isn't.

---

So obsessed with this history they had to reference as the Texas A&M Sullivan statue.....so much depth of knowledge there that they can't even get the name correct? They are probably just pulling in names based off news on the internet.

---

In what way is it named incorrectly? It's specifically the statue of Sullivan at A&M.

There are other pieces not being protected by them.

https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTVVV_Lawrence_Sullivan_Sul_Ross_Sul_Ross_State_University_Alpine_TX

https://www.hmdb.org/m.asp?m=50296

Not many, but that's probably because they've erected most of them as a society effort.

At my limit for free posting: I am not T.M. Links copied and pasted from a doc on FB.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CEhu6eM2UDHjNNcpgP4qDWv60BsZkPxhQbwqwb6u0mk/edit?usp=drivesdk

All of your links say the same thing.

They tried to commission a statue of Ross, but never did. Then list the one at A&M attempting to add meaning that isn't there as it was commissioned by the State of Texas long after the CSA had been dissolved and Ross pardoned.

Named incorrectly in that no ones refer to it that way. It shows me they aren't aware of it outside of what they found from the headlines. Its like saying the monument at San Jancinto or Memorial of Lincoln. Its off and shows a lack of understanding or knowledge of said monuments.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

rocky the dog said:

---

---

That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

---

Why? It happened.

---

Taking down of statues doesn't mean people will forget history. Just a foolish premise.

---

You have it backwards. It's forgetting history that brings down statues. That, and Howard Zinn type false histories that distort the truth.

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA and this relaxers that are celebrated. We've now decided that all information is available instead of the Lost Cause bull***** What the CSA and their leaders fought to create isn't worth any sort of celebration at all.

SCCL2020 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

---

United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

---

And there it is..The Big Lie that Sully was put up by the UDC.

Satellite of Love said:

---

SCCL2020 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

---

United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

---

Links to documentation?

---

This the same person who does Twitter as BCS Vibes, ModernWhigGig, and whatever other Twitter handle she's changed it to lately.

Because the Waco chapter of UDC wanted to put up a statue of Ross in Waco, and failed, she's convinced they instead did the A&M statue.

Quote:

---

There are other pieces not being protected by them.

---

Because leftist idiots are not currently attacking those.

Quote:

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA

---

When statues of Columbus, Fredrick Douglas, the 54th MAss INF, Layfette, Hans Christian Heg, Lincoln, etc. etc. etc. are under attack...

Yes, we have forgotten.

Smokedraw01 said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

rocky the dog said:

---

---

That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

---

Why? It happened.

---

Taking down of statues doesn't mean people will forget history. Just a foolish premise.

---

You have it backwards. It's forgetting history that brings down statues. That, and Howard Zinn type false histories that distort the truth.

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA and this relaxers that are celebrated. We've now decided that all information is available instead of the Lost Cause bull***** What the CSA and their leaders fought to create isn't worth any sort of celebration at all.

---

So now we need a commission to determine who is remembered by their relatives and who gets lost to history?

SCCL2020 said:

---

In what way is it named incorrectly? It's specifically the statue of Sullivan at A&M.

There are other pieces not being protected by them.

https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMTVVV_Lawrence_Sullivan_Sul_Ross_Sul_Ross_State_University_Alpine_TX

---

Nobody refers to him as "Sullivan".



Oh, look. Another statue of Ross as an academic, not as a soldier.




Why haven't they attacked it?

• No one has heard of Sul Ross State (nationally)
• They don't have a Div I football team
• They are 400 miles from any big town (no media types will make that drive)
• They only have 2800 students
• They don't have a national reputation as a Conservative school with a military history
• The locals are well armed West Texans

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA

---

When statues of Columbus, Fredrick Douglas, the 54th MAss INF, Layfette, Hans Christian Heg, Lincoln, etc. etc. etc. are under attack...

Yes, we have forgotten.

---

Nah, it just means that people sometimes pay very little attention to who is actually on the statue. And Columbus was the primo #1 **** boy. That guy was a piece of **** that was also fairly intelligent.

CanyonAg77 said:

---

SCCL2020 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

---

United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

---

And there it is..The Big Lie that Sully was put up by the UDC.

---

First of all, the extent of the UDC's involvement is a minor point. The answer changes nothing about Ross's actual behavior.

I am withholding judgment on the UDC's involvement. The UDC's primary mission grew out of memorializing the Confederacy. They were clearly advocating for a Ross statue for a couple of decades at least before the A&M statue was erected. They contracted the equestrian design with the man who would eventually do the A&M sculptor. They were invited to the unveiling; the invitation made the front page of The Eagle. The commission would have come from the State of Texas, I imagine. Did the UDC contribute money? I imagine they lobbied a lot and most of their support was in-kind.

The degree of UDC involvement is not important. What Ross did is important. He was responsible for the deaths of thousands as he fought for the right to hold black people in the worst kind of human bondage. He committed treason. He is NOT someone we want our young people to emulate. What about those Aggie values we hear so much about? Ross did not respect people of color.

Also, here is something interesting. I was just turned on to RECOLLECTIONS OF THE GREAT WAR BY A.W. SPARKS (1901; TYLER: LEE & BURNETT). Sparks fought in the Civil war as a member of the ROSS TEXAS BRIGADE and notes, among other things, that Ross's troops referred to black Union soldiers as "black apes". "The "black apes," as the boys called the negro soldiers, were pursued into the lines of Yazoo city, and the weary and victorious Texans camped about a mile in front of their lines."

Yup, its the same trend for virtually every war. I'll look for it, but this has been written about and studied. The graphs tell you why this whole "all confederate statues are only tied to Jim Crow revisionism," isn't the most accurate take.

Quote:

---

The degree of UDC involvement is not important.

---

It's your side that thinks it's important, and wants to damn him for even the slightest whiff of a connection.

Quote:

---

What Ross did is important

---

100% Agree. He saved A&M, he helped establish Prairie View, he rescued slaves from Indians, he established schools for handicapped black children, he appointed former Union soldiers to political posts,he was regarded by blacks as the best friend they had in Texas.

Quote:

---

. He was responsible for the deaths of thousands as

---

It's called War. People die. Individual soldiers are not responsible for the political acts of their country. If you hate Ross, how much you must despise Lincoln for starting the war. FDR? Truman? Ike?

Quote:

---

he fought for the right to hold black people in the worst kind of human bondage

---

The Democrat Party Plantation of today runs a close second. At least the South did not intentionally murder millions of black babies in the womb.

Quote:

---

He committed treason

---

No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

Quote:

---

. He is NOT someone we want our young people to emulate. What about those Aggie values we hear so much about?

---

Dead wrong. He protected his home by fighting Indians on the Frontier, his State when called upon. He became a man of peace and supported change when the time came.

And don't lecture us on Aggie values. Especially without an Ag Tag.

Quote:

---

Ross did not respect people of color..

---

Did you read what the President of PV said upon Ross's death? Are you aware of his work with the black Baptist Churches? Are you aware he was for universal suffrage and the elimination of the poll tax, both of which benefited black voters?

Quote:

---

Also, here is something interesting. I was just turned on to RECOLLECTIONS OF THE GREAT WAR BY A.W. SPARKS (1901; TYLER: LEE & BURNETT). Sparks fought in the Civil war as a member of the ROSS TEXAS BRIGADE and notes, among other things, that Ross's troops referred to black Union soldiers as "black apes". "The "black apes," as the boys called the negro soldiers, were pursued into the lines of Yazoo city, and the weary and victorious Texans camped about a mile in front of their lines

---

Wait!

Are you telling me that white men in the middle of the 19th century were dismissive of other races? That fighting men used slurs to refer to their enemies? (SEE: Huns, Japs, Cong, etc.)

SHOCKED! Shocked, I am! This is brand new information that no one could have possibly foreseen!

THE HORROR!

I find it funny that his black contemporaries and unionists forgave Ross and even lauded his efforts post war, yet chubby white men over a hundred years later can't.

Smokedraw01 said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA

---

When statues of Columbus, Fredrick Douglas, the 54th MAss INF, Layfette, Hans Christian Heg, Lincoln, etc. etc. etc. are under attack...

Yes, we have forgotten.

---

Nah, it just means that people sometimes pay very little attention to who is actually on the statue. And Columbus was the primo #1 **** boy. That guy was a piece of **** that was also fairly intelligent.

---

Why is he the #1 F-boy? There is a lot of hyperbole around him and several false narratives.

So... you're most upset because a hostile group was called names by the soldiers who counter-attacked?

TexasRebel said:

---

So... you're most upset because a hostile group was called names by the soldiers who counter-attacked?

---

Well, he was 'just now turned on to it'.

Please, nobody tell him what they really called the VC in 'Nam. I toned it down a bit.

Pease said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

SCCL2020 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

---

United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

---

And there it is..The Big Lie that Sully was put up by the UDC.

---

First of all, the extent of the UDC's involvement is a minor point. The answer changes nothing about Ross's actual behavior.

I am withholding judgment on the UDC's involvement. The UDC's primary mission grew out of memorializing the Confederacy. They were clearly advocating for a Ross statue for a couple of decades at least before the A&M statue was erected. They contracted the equestrian design with the man who would eventually do the A&M sculptor. They were invited to the unveiling; the invitation made the front page of The Eagle. The commission would have come from the State of Texas, I imagine. Did the UDC contribute money? I imagine they lobbied a lot and most of their support was in-kind.

The degree of UDC involvement is not important. What Ross did is important. He was responsible for the deaths of thousands as he fought for the right to hold black people in the worst kind of human bondage. He committed treason. He is NOT someone we want our young people to emulate. What about those Aggie values we hear so much about? Ross did not respect people of color.

Also, here is something interesting. I was just turned on to RECOLLECTIONS OF THE GREAT WAR BY A.W. SPARKS (1901; TYLER: LEE & BURNETT). Sparks fought in the Civil war as a member of the ROSS TEXAS BRIGADE and notes, among other things, that Ross's troops referred to black Union soldiers as "black apes". "The "black apes," as the boys called the negro soldiers, were pursued into the lines of Yazoo city, and the weary and victorious Texans camped about a mile in front of their lines."

---

What does the statue celebrate? It celebrates the man that was president of the University. That is worthy of praise and possibly a statue. To tear down every statue because the individual held or acted on beliefs that are reprehensible is foolish. We'd have to tear down every Malcom X statue and mural. Same with Washington and Jefferson and that is just dumb and lazy.

Satellite of Love said:

---

Smokedraw01 said:

---

CanyonAg77 said:

---

Quote:

---

We've not forgotten the history of the CSA

---

When statues of Columbus, Fredrick Douglas, the 54th MAss INF, Layfette, Hans Christian Heg, Lincoln, etc. etc. etc. are under attack...

Yes, we have forgotten.

---

Nah, it just means that people sometimes pay very little attention to who is actually on the statue. And Columbus was the primo #1 **** boy. That guy was a piece of **** that was also fairly intelligent.

---

Why is he the #1 F-boy? There is a lot of hyperbole around him and several false narratives.

---

It is my understanding that he was a slave trader before coming to Spain and then the whole slave trading and subjugation after his discovery. The guy was pretty freaking ruthless.

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

He was no longer a citizen the United States.

He was a citizen of the CSA.

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

Even if it was treason, he was federally pardoned.

Quote:

---

Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

Now do Geronimo, Sitting Bull, and Quanah Parker.

While you're at it, do George Washington.

Just wait until they figure out the CMoH was first awarded for a Union defeat.

Not my heritage. It was a tremendous mistake.

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

The CSA did exactly what the founding fathers did, and what they specifically supported when faced with a tyrannical government. Unfortunately, they did it for a truly wicked, evil institution to stay in place. They knew their way of life was coming to an end and that end was being pushed by the federal government. Racist people started a noble movement for a horrible affront to humanity. History and people are complicated.

Like many of those generals (and really all historical figures of importance in our country's past) there was good with the bad in that movement. I firmly reject the bad (slavery and racism) while acknowledging the right of the good (not letting the government become overly oppressive)

Except no tyrannical government actually existed in the case of the CSA founders. They created their own boogie man.

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

Texas, in the Union's eyes was a state, when Texas "attempted" to leave the Union.

The UNION declared war on the Confederate States.

By YOUR definition, the UNION therefore, committed committed treason. The Confederate States merely defended themselves.

LightningDammitt said:

---

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

Texas, in the Union's eyes was a state, when Texas "attempted" to leave the Union.

The UNION declared war on the Confederate States.

By YOUR definition, the UNION therefore, committed committed treason. The Confederate States merely defended themselves.

---

When did they declare war?

I think we should keep this statue as a reminder about not accepting substandard art.

Smokedraw01 said:

---

LightningDammitt said:

---

Pease said:

---

Let's do this a step at a time... Start with the super easy one.

Quote:

---

I said:
He committed treason

---

Quote:

---

You said: No matter how much you stamp your foot and want this to be so, you're wrong. He fought for his State.

---

Whether he technically fought in the Civil War for the Confederacy or for Texas is immaterial. He levied war against the United States. Ross was an American citizen who took up arms against America. That is textbook treason.

---

Texas, in the Union's eyes was a state, when Texas "attempted" to leave the Union.

The UNION declared war on the Confederate States.

By YOUR definition, the UNION therefore, committed committed treason. The Confederate States merely defended themselves.

---

When did they declare war?

---

Are you saying the Union did not have a Civil War? Are you denying history?

Are you saying the Union did NOT save the country from slavery?

Interesting move of the goalposts!

Confederates were traitors.

Sully's statue honors the Confederate bull*****

I've still got to protect your right to say stupid *****

Semper Fi, circlejerkers. Watch while we take down this pointless crap. Traitors don't get honors, and bonespurs is getting voted out. Whoop!

Did you plug your ears and close your eyes while you said all that?

SCCL2020 said:

---

Confederates were traitors.

Sully's statue honors the Confederate bull*****

I've still got to protect your right to say stupid *****

Semper Fi, circlejerkers. Watch while we take down this pointless crap. Traitors don't get honors, and bonespurs is getting voted out. Whoop!

---

The Sully statue honors the president of A&M that saved the University. Nuance is difficult.