rocky the dog said:

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That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

Troutslime said:

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Mond shouldn't be judged by one game in his career, and neither should Sully.

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Unfortunately for Mond I'm judging him on all of the games of his career!

Sine poena nulla lex.

I'd hardly say it was wrong of donors to cut off the checks when someone they are financially supporting calls anyone that disagrees with him a racist. Add to that the athletes ok with someone being assaulted simply due to being white. And then top it off with an athlete agreeing with Nick Cannon about skin color determining whether one is less than. Let's not forget those athletes taking their shirts off and trying to intimidate an elderly man and threatening to physically assault him. The donations didn't stop simply because donors were not happy with what a student's opinion on Sully was, it's is the sum total of their money was being used to support. No, they stopped because this team is not acting in a manner people would feel comfortable supporting. I certainly wouldn't want to support a group that is acting in an overtly racist manner

Ag_SGT said:

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I'd hardly say it was wrong of donors to cut off the checks when someone they are financially supporting calls anyone that disagrees with him a racist. Add to that the athletes ok with someone being assaulted simply due to being white. And then top it off with an athlete agreeing with Nick Cannon about skin color determining whether one is less than. Let's not forget those athletes taking their shirts off and trying to intimidate an elderly man and threatening to physically assault him. The donations didn't stop simply because donors were not happy with what a student's opinion on Sully was, it's is the sum total of their money was being used to support. No, they stopped because this team is not acting in a manner people would feel comfortable supporting. I certainly wouldn't want to support a group that is acting in an overtly racist manner

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Please read fully before responding:

"I'd hardly call it wrong for students not to support businesses run by individuals that believe athletes should never speak and only play. Add to that a Sully supporter ripping a speech from a student's hands for handing out QR code slips, and a separate incident of an older gentleman spitting on an athlete, while a woman sexually assaults another. And then top it off with anonymous accounts targeting young adults who dare to agree with Sully removal supporters in seeing the Confederate connection. Let's not forget dismissing the multitude of racist incidents on campus."

"They didn't stop supporting simply for disagreeing. They stopped/attempted to stop because they legitimately have experienced racism on campus, and they would rather donate their money straight to other students in need rather than give it to businesses who stopped donating when students started protesting racism."

"They don't want to support businesses/donors who believe the Confederacy should be honored, which is what they view the Sully statue as doing. They don't want to support people who are overtly racist or people that defend someone who sought to keep AA enslaved and created legislation that fostered racism."

This is from a compilation of viewpoints and experiences from the other side. Not all of the protesters agree with everything other protesters are doing just as not all counterprotesters agree with everything the counterprotesters are doing.

Both sides legitimately feel wronged by the other side, yet each side has valid reasons for feeling the way they do. There has been problematic behavior and bullying from all sides. It is time to recognize these things and come to the table in good faith and try to work something out for the sake of all Aggies.

I know not all of you may be religious, but as it is Sunday, I would like to quote some scripture:

"So then let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding." Romans 14:19

Both sides have their sources, and it may be everything is true. Sometimes truth is complicated. Sometimes truth means the person we built in our minds doesn't exist. Bad people can do good things, and good people can do bad things. Trying to figure out which it was a hundred years down the road isn't going to be easy or maybe not even 100% possible.

What we do know and see now is a pattern of discomfort and pain. These perceptions aren't unique to this year. It isn't simply a "snowflake" issue. I wouldn't want to support someone who had tried to keep my family members enslaved nor want to see that person honored for those actions. However, if that person succeeded in changing, I wouldn't want that person eternally demonized either.

The problem is we cannot fully confirm who Sully truly was. We know what some people thought of him, but that doesn't give the full story any more than what people might say about each and every one of us depending on who we ask. We don't and won't ever truly know without a shadow of a doubt in either direction.

The best we can do is come up with a middle ground solution, meaning no one will be 100% happy, but at least the issue can be laid to rest and it can be a testament to the ability of Aggies to try and understand one another despite differing viewpoints.

Took a while, but after 3 pages, you've shown your true colors - you are no concerned third party.

I think communities should make their own decisions. In my community, Bell County, we have a statue of a confederate soldier right in front of the courthouse. We had a public hearing on it recently. There were a few in the pro camp that said their great great grandfather fought for the confederacy and they were proud of that. They also stated they were slave owners and they were not proud of that. I have a hard time reconciling those two things. Seems like he was fighting to preserve a way of life that is enabled by slavery and teying to preserve that practice.

I'm in favor of removing them. I'm not a leftist, not in favor of mob rule. I voted for Trump and will again. Put it in a museum if you want. Don't put it in front of a courthouse. I have several black friends in the community. They see it the same as flyinga confederate flag. It's not a welcoming site.

I also heard several people at the hearing talking about how proud they were that their ancestors freed their slaves. So why not put up a statue celebrating that. It also would be a historical reminder.

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Possibly commission a new one with Sully shaking hands with Gaines recognizing their combined work

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Gaines didn't do anything except be one of 21 votes

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" Maybe lead with Gaines' contributions since without his work A&M wouldn't have been funded,

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Not true.

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I have spoken with a few people, and many are on board with moving Sully to Cushing (both sides) since it accomplishes what everyone seems to want: Sully still somewhere on campus, but also not hiding what he did by making excuses or flat out denying it.

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Bullcrap. "Both sides" don't want to sweep Sully under the rug in Cushing. Only the anti-Sully side.

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But it is still hypocrisy at its' finest to claim that these remnants are anything other than idolization of terrible ideas and a time that maybe wasn't the best for particular groups of people in this country.

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Bullcrap.

They went up mainly on or about the 50th anniversary of the war. Humans tend to make a big deal out of such anniversaries.

rocky the dog said:

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I know it's satire, but most of Antifa probably thinks Karl Marx is Groucho and Harpo's dad.

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I believe many are letting outside politics blind them from seeing how problematic this continued divisiveness is.

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Outside politics created this divisiveness, with the false narrative that Sully is a confederate statue.

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Except the donors are the ones who punished first

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How? By giving millions and millions of dollars? I honestly do not know what in Hades you mean by this.

Smokedraw01 said:

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rocky the dog said:

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That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

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Why? It happened.

AgExcel said:

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"I'd hardly call it wrong for students not to support businesses run by individuals that believe athletes should never speak and only play. Add to that a Sully supporter ripping a speech from a student's hands for handing out QR code slips, and a separate incident of an older gentleman spitting on an athlete, while a woman sexually assaults another. And then top it off with anonymous accounts targeting young adults who dare to agree with Sully removal supporters in seeing the Confederate connection. Let's not forget dismissing the multitude of racist incidents on campus."

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Lies, half-truths, and exaggerations.

Why don't you use your real name, Professor Alvard?

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"They didn't stop supporting simply for disagreeing. They stopped/attempted to stop because they legitimately have experienced racism on campus, and they would rather donate their money straight to other students in need rather than give it to businesses who stopped donating when students started protesting racism."

"They don't want to support businesses/donors who believe the Confederacy should be honored, which is what they view the Sully statue as doing. They don't want to support people who are overtly racist or people that defend someone who sought to keep AA enslaved and created legislation that fostered racism."

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Tell you what, I'm not so naive as to say racism never happens on campus, if you;ll not be so naive as to think it's a common occurrence and that simply walking across campus is like attending a Klan rally.

And if you'll quit repeating the Big Lie that Sully is a confederate statue.

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I know not all of you may be religious, but as it is Sunday, I would like to quote some scripture:

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Why not, you've done nothing so far but preach to us, as if you were a saint, and we were all ignorant sinners.

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The problem is we cannot fully confirm who Sully truly was. We know what some people thought of him, but that doesn't give the full story any more than what people might say about each and every one of us depending on who we ask. We don't and won't ever truly know without a shadow of a doubt in either direction.

The best we can do is come up with a middle ground solution, meaning no one will be 100% happy, but at least the issue can be laid to rest and it can be a testament to the ability of Aggies to try and understand one another despite differing viewpoints.

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Actually we do know.

We was a flawed human, as we all are.

The President of Prairie View A&M, at Sully's death, called Ross the greatest friend of Black Texans.

He was progressive for his time.

He saved A&M.

He provided for Prairie View, when the alternative was no black school at all.

NCNJ1217 said:

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Took a while, but after 3 pages, you've shown your true colors - you are no concerned third party.

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I am sorry you feel that way.

This is why so few moderates want to say anything. Admitting to understanding both sides ends up with being seen as the opposite side by both sides. I'm only trying to show you how th logic goes for the other side in the same vein. The same tactics are used by both camps. Rather than continue to see a war raged on campus, it would be better to try for some kind of unity and peace.

If it is wrong to strive for that, then I am wrong.

There is no compromise to be had.

CanyonAg77, you posted many responses, and I will try to answer as many as I can here.

I am slowly learning about Gaines. The initiative for his statue on campus is where I was drawing from. Since the statue is greenlit, and since the initiative states the man's work was instrumental, I thought it would be a nice way to tie both things together.

I have spoken with other members of my church who are former students or have children either on campus or about to be, and many thought that the Cushing idea seemed like a sufficient compromise over continuing fights and protests.

I'm not here to argue whether it is or it isn't. Both sides have presented their reasons for why they believe the way they do. That it is perceived to be a Confederate statue by more than a handful is something to consider when trying to understand the other side.

The diplomatic way to respond would have been to allow the students to address the problem themselves rather than stepping in and attempting to threaten defunding a whole student body by the actions of some. It is past that now, and retaliatory responses have been made. This is an escalation that hopefully can be fixed.

I am not a professor, nor do I want to be one. I simply wanted to show both sides how this looks and how it is hurting the school we are all supposed to love. You don't use your own name either. Sometimes people just want to live peacefully and ask for peace.

I think you missed that the things in quotes are the viewpoints of the other side given in the same format as your side. I'm just letting people see how it can be that both sides believe they are fighting for what is right and true, and not simply acting out of pure malice.

My faith is important to me. I am sorry if I offended you with it. Perhaps it is naive wanting to try and make peace between two groups who would rather stay at each other's throats. I'm not perfect. Far from it. I just don't want the school where my family has gone to end up being torn apart and reduced to factions like everywhere else. Our traditions were supposed to be about togetherness and stepping up when others had fallen to help.

I've said what I originally came to say. I hope one of y'all figures out how to bridge the gap so there can be peace. May God bless you and give you all some much needed perspective (both sides).

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am slowly learning about Gaines. The initiative for his statue on campus is where I was drawing from

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The initiative is long on enthusiasm, short of facts.

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many thought that the Cushing idea seemed like a sufficient compromise over continuing fights and protests.

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Then they haven't been paying attention. Cushing is an archive. No one goes there. The push to move Sully there is to remove him from the consciousness of current students. They anti- forces prefer destruction, but are at least smart enough not to say so openly.

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That it is perceived to be a Confederate statue by more than a handful is something to consider when trying to understand the other side.

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A handful believe that the Earth is flat, that Bill gates will send them money for posting on Facebook, and that vaccines cause autism.

I am under no compulsion to consider ill-informed, feeling driving, fact-deficient, points of view.

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The diplomatic way to respond would have been to allow the students to address the problem themselves rather than stepping in and attempting to threaten defunding a whole student body by the actions of some. It is past that now, and retaliatory responses have been made. This is an escalation that hopefully can be fixed.

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It is not retaliation to make an informed decision as to where to send your money. Removing of the statue would be a leading indicator that A&M is no longer deserving of our money.

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I am not a professor, nor do I want to be one

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Inside joke, don't worry about it.

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. I'm just letting people see how it can be that both sides believe they are fighting for what is right and true, and not simply acting out of pure malice.

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The anti-sully forces are full of malice, see the actions of professor Alvard, the arrogance of I. Tucker, the confrontation with old Ags, the doxxing by Cheesecake girl, etc. etc. BLM and Antifa are Marxist, terrorist organizations, and the locals are being influenced by them.

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Our traditions were supposed to be about togetherness and stepping up when others had fallen to help.

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They are. The anti-Sully forces are the one who don't want to be Aggies.

JB99 said:

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I think communities should make their own decisions. In my community, Bell County, we have a statue of a confederate soldier right in front of the courthouse. We had a public hearing on it recently. There were a few in the pro camp that said their great great grandfather fought for the confederacy and they were proud of that. They also stated they were slave owners and they were not proud of that. I have a hard time reconciling those two things. Seems like he was fighting to preserve a way of life that is enabled by slavery and teying to preserve that practice.

I'm in favor of removing them. I'm not a leftist, not in favor of mob rule. I voted for Trump and will again. Put it in a museum if you want. Don't put it in front of a courthouse. I have several black friends in the community. They see it the same as flyinga confederate flag. It's not a welcoming site.

I also heard several people at the hearing talking about how proud they were that their ancestors freed their slaves. So why not put up a statue celebrating that. It also would be a historical reminder.

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The point is, those that want Sully removed, want him removed for what he did before he did good things for POC's.

If you place a statue for the one's that freed their slaves AFTER they enslaved them, those very statues would offend POC's by the things they did before freeing the slaves.

If you want to erect a statue for slave owners freeing slaves, to be logical, you must leave Sully in place.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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I changed my opinion in light of new evidence presented to me. A very healthy thing for a mind to do, and it's the same reason I'm not a Republican anymore.

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What is her name?

https://www.facebook.com/180884138625980/posts/1466175143430200/?sfnsn=mo

Texas Division Sons of Confederate Veterans states the campus statue is a Confederate statue and have been signing the pro-Sully petition.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Smokedraw01 said:

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rocky the dog said:

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That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

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Why? It happened.

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Taking down of statues doesn't mean people will forget history. Just a foolish premise.

SCCL2020 said:

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https://www.facebook.com/180884138625980/posts/1466175143430200/?sfnsn=mo

Texas Division Sons of Confederate Veterans states the campus statue is a Confederate statue and have been signing the pro-Sully petition.

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Educated people are claiming that the Earth is flat.

Doesn't make it true.

Smokedraw01 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Smokedraw01 said:

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rocky the dog said:

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That is one of the dumbest political cartoons I've ever seen.

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Why? It happened.

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Taking down of statues doesn't mean people will forget history. Just a foolish premise.

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You have it backwards. It's forgetting history that brings down statues. That, and Howard Zinn type false histories that distort the truth.

TexasRebel said:

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SCCL2020 said:

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https://www.facebook.com/180884138625980/posts/1466175143430200/?sfnsn=mo

Texas Division Sons of Confederate Veterans states the campus statue is a Confederate statue and have been signing the pro-Sully petition.

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Educated people are claiming that the Earth is flat.

Doesn't make it true.

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If you really think the people obsessed with the Confederacy don't know their own statues, I've got a bridge to sell you.

You keep blocking out the evidence in front of you. Just be honest. You don't actually care if it's a Confederate statue or not. You just want to keep it because you're in your feelings over a hunk of metal.

Go track down how many of those signatures are actual Ags and which ones are just Confederate lovers before trying to tell people what it is or isn't.

Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

TexasRebel said:

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Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

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United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507858-gop-senate-candidate-calls-confederate-monuments-symbols-of-hope?amp

Succinctly put. Statues remind us of mistakes. Mistakes must be acknowledged. Mistakes must be remembered so they're never made again.


That's what this is about---- perception. One side thinks these statues are meant to glorify. The other side thinks these statues are meant as reminders to an unjust era.

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Well then let's leave breadcrumbs for people to learn from our mistakes today then. If statues aren't about idolization of people and really mistake reminders then let's go ahead and erect some antifa statues in the CHAZ/CHOP in a few years. I mean... you'd be in favor of that so people in the area know that it was a massive mistake right?

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Hey genius, you realize there is a statue of Lenin in Seattle right?

https://seattle.curbed.com/2019/8/27/20830552/seattle-fremont-vladimir-lenin-statue-history

You know, one of the worst mass murders in the 20th century, and Seattle promotes his image and his ideals with enthusiastic fervor.

I sincerely question how some of you ever gained academic acceptance to Texas A&M, because you clearly didn't learn anything here.

SCCL2020 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

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United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

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Links to documentation?

Satellite of Love said:

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SCCL2020 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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Who commissioned the work?

A group can make any claim they want. That doesn't make it true.

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United Daughters of the Confederacy, United Veterans of the Confederacy, and the 35th legislature.

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Links to documentation?

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.co.waller.tx.us/upload/common/docs/Veterans/memorial_book.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiq8Oy2ndzqAhVFPawKHRFGAoEQFjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw3RCtcVmP8KTdwT6PH_7mu8

https://photos.app.goo.gl/zvU3oJEFL6QrxBSX8

https://books.google.com/books?id=TBFCAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA269&lpg=PA269&dq=%22Sul+Ross+Memorial+Association%22&source=bl&ots=4z9OKBB_Ek&sig=ACfU3U37mdDV_phykzXqocsugKv3hNMfPw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi586yEmZPqAhVGQ6wKHcFtCYUQ6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Sul%20Ross%20Memorial%20Association%22&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?id=WSDEAgAAQBAJ&newbks=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PT111&dq=l.+s.+ross+chapter+UDC+monument&hl=en#v=onepage&q=Sul%20ross&f=false

Civil War, and Confederate statues in general are the most American statues we have to date.

They should stand as a testament to what Americans with conviction are willing to do if the fed becomes too tyrannical. It is a reminder to me that despite mistakes for their time, virtuous men can raise arms against a country they love to make it better and/or secede and go their own way.

That's what America was founded on. It should also be a good indication of what happens when compromise isn't reached during common discourse. Lots of good people die.

SCCL2020 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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SCCL2020 said:

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https://www.facebook.com/180884138625980/posts/1466175143430200/?sfnsn=mo

Texas Division Sons of Confederate Veterans states the campus statue is a Confederate statue and have been signing the pro-Sully petition.

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Educated people are claiming that the Earth is flat.

Doesn't make it true.

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If you really think the people obsessed with the Confederacy don't know their own statues, I've got a bridge to sell you.

You keep blocking out the evidence in front of you. Just be honest. You don't actually care if it's a Confederate statue or not. You just want to keep it because you're in your feelings over a hunk of metal.

Go track down how many of those signatures are actual Ags and which ones are just Confederate lovers before trying to tell people what it is or isn't.

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So obsessed with this history they had to reference as the Texas A&M Sullivan statue.....so much depth of knowledge there that they can't even get the name correct? They are probably just pulling in names based off news on the internet.

Thank you for the links. Also, you should remove the google shared album. I assume you are T.M. Might be wise to remove your information. I will take a look.

This is a more accurate assessment, than the bs being dished by the left.