I think there is a lot of misperception and overgeneralization from both sides. Having spoken to people in both camps, what we see forefront are the radicals from both, but very little from the moderates. Those moderates who do speak up are yelled at from both sides for either being too weak or too strong, depending on where you're coming from.

As Aggies, it wouldn't do us any harm to try. We are making assumptions as to what the other side will do, and this fear is keeping us from finding a solution that is both beneficial to our reputation as Aggies, but also as a community.

If we make a good faith gesture, then perhaps we can find other ways to make good faith movements in unity.

I have spoken with a few people, and many are on board with moving Sully to Cushing (both sides) since it accomplishes what everyone seems to want: Sully still somewhere on campus, but also not hiding what he did by making excuses or flat out denying it.

Honestly, maturing and moving away from my parents. Incredible parents, and they never pushed their beliefs on me, but I did grow up in a conservative household so I left home with that bias. Voted for Romney and voted for Trump for my first two general elections. Can't envision voting R ever again.

I just felt that conservatives have lost their way with Trump, and the party continues to shift the Overton Window to the right. It was never one thing that caused my switch, but death by a thousand cuts that moved me left.

I still support 2A.
I support equal rights protections for LGBTQ+ communities.
I'm for securing borders but want to us to overhaul immigration and border security in a way that's easier and less expensive for immigrants to come here legally.
I still feel conservative at heart; the thought of giving more money from my paycheck to the government isn't something that excites me. I understand that some of the things our tax dollars go to might not help me, but help my community and other communities that can make our country better as a whole, and I do feel are necessary.

DallasAg 94 said:

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You realize how stupid you sound, right?

Sully was a millstone around Mond's and Tucker's neck?

They didn't even know his history. They have been at this school for 3 years. They've been oppressed?

Give me ONE incident of racism they have claimed on campus. Racism is so rampant Isaih Martin had to create his own. Twice.

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Apparently KM didn't know the depth of his own Ancestor's role in the history of this country and especially in South Texas.

Troutslime said:

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Mond shouldn't be judged by one game in his career, and neither should Sully.

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I laughed.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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I changed my opinion in light of new evidence presented to me. A very healthy thing for a mind to do, and it's the same reason I'm not a Republican anymore.

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The statues being torn down righT now are not confederate soldiers. They are American heroes. I assume you will switch your vote back to Republican due to this?

Clob94 said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507858-gop-senate-candidate-calls-confederate-monuments-symbols-of-hope?amp

Succinctly put. Statues remind us of mistakes. Mistakes must be acknowledged. Mistakes must be remembered so they're never made again.


That's what this is about---- perception. One side thinks these statues are meant to glorify. The other side thinks these statues are meant as reminders to an unjust era.

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Well then let's leave breadcrumbs for people to learn from our mistakes today then. If statues aren't about idolization of people and really mistake reminders then let's go ahead and erect some antifa statues in the CHAZ/CHOP in a few years. I mean... you'd be in favor of that so people in the area know that it was a massive mistake right?

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Once Antifa is completely crushed, after a few years had passed, absolutely. To show the sheer ignorance of what hypocrisy is. Using fascist tactics and claiming to be anti-fascist is definitely a lesson people should remember and never repeat. Great idea actually.

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Great thinkers man!

Let's also put up statues of Michael Jackson or Jeffrey Epstein or Jerry Sandusky today then, I mean... they are dead or going to die in prison now so they are completely crushed. They can serve as a reminder to all of us that ignoring claims of sexual impropriety and pedophilia is a bad thing to do.

Hell, what about Dean Corll in the Heights Milroy Park in Houston? This can be a reminder to children and parents alike to never talk to strangers!

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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I still support 2A.
I support equal rights protections for LGBTQ+ communities.
I'm for securing borders but want to us to overhaul immigration and border security in a way that's easier and less expensive for immigrants to come here legally.
I still feel conservative at heart; the thought of giving more money from my paycheck to the government isn't something that excites me. I understand that some of the things our tax dollars go to might not help me, but help my community and other communities that can make our country better as a whole, and I do feel are necessary.

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This sounds like a very Republican platform, so you comment about not being a Republican is confusing.

Pray tell me, where will you be aligning your support in the fall?

Sorry for any confusion, I was simply listing out some of the republican ideals that I still align with since some users were questioning how I could have ever been a Republican. But I will not be voting for Trump in November.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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Sorry for any confusion, I was simply listing out some of the republican ideals that I still align with since some users were questioning how I could have ever been a Republican. But I will not be voting for Trump in November.

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So you are a fence rider? Not a bad position, but if you can't see what the Dem's are cooking you are blind.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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Honestly, maturing and moving away from my parents. Incredible parents, and they never pushed their beliefs on me, but I did grow up in a conservative household so I left home with that bias. Voted for Romney and voted for Trump for my first two general elections. Can't envision voting R ever again.

I just felt that conservatives have lost their way with Trump, and the party continues to shift the Overton Window to the right. It was never one thing that caused my switch, but death by a thousand cuts that moved me left.

I still support 2A.
I support equal rights protections for LGBTQ+ communities.
I'm for securing borders but want to us to overhaul immigration and border security in a way that's easier and less expensive for immigrants to come here legally.
I still feel conservative at heart; the thought of giving more money from my paycheck to the government isn't something that excites me. I understand that some of the things our tax dollars go to might not help me, but help my community and other communities that can make our country better as a whole, and I do feel are necessary.

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Until the next Cause du Jour comes along and you change your mind again.

ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507858-gop-senate-candidate-calls-confederate-monuments-symbols-of-hope?amp

Succinctly put. Statues remind us of mistakes. Mistakes must be acknowledged. Mistakes must be remembered so they're never made again.


That's what this is about---- perception. One side thinks these statues are meant to glorify. The other side thinks these statues are meant as reminders to an unjust era.

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Well then let's leave breadcrumbs for people to learn from our mistakes today then. If statues aren't about idolization of people and really mistake reminders then let's go ahead and erect some antifa statues in the CHAZ/CHOP in a few years. I mean... you'd be in favor of that so people in the area know that it was a massive mistake right?

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Once Antifa is completely crushed, after a few years had passed, absolutely. To show the sheer ignorance of what hypocrisy is. Using fascist tactics and claiming to be anti-fascist is definitely a lesson people should remember and never repeat. Great idea actually.

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Great thinkers man!

Let's also put up statues of Michael Jackson or Jeffrey Epstein or Jerry Sandusky today then, I mean... they are dead or going to die in prison now so they are completely crushed. They can serve as a reminder to all of us that ignoring claims of sexual impropriety and pedophilia is a bad thing to do.

Hell, what about Dean Corll in the Heights Milroy Park in Houston? This can be a reminder to children and parents alike to never talk to strangers!

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No one is talking about putting up Confederate monuments. They're talking about not tearing them down via mob rule.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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Sorry for any confusion, I was simply listing out some of the republican ideals that I still align with since some users were questioning how I could have ever been a Republican. But I will not be voting for Trump in November.

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If I understand correctly, you detest DJT so much that you'd throw away your idealistic vote on a 3rd or 4th party candidate? Although there are dozens of political parties on the ballot, there are only two legitimate choices if you want your vote to count. Certainly, with the ideals you list above, you aren't voting for Biden, right?

A vote for (R) in the fall is for Freedom, Prosperity, Capitalism and the American Dream.

Any other vote is for Socialism, Green New Deal and Government Control.

Texas Tea said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Clob94 said:

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https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/507858-gop-senate-candidate-calls-confederate-monuments-symbols-of-hope?amp

Succinctly put. Statues remind us of mistakes. Mistakes must be acknowledged. Mistakes must be remembered so they're never made again.


That's what this is about---- perception. One side thinks these statues are meant to glorify. The other side thinks these statues are meant as reminders to an unjust era.

---

Well then let's leave breadcrumbs for people to learn from our mistakes today then. If statues aren't about idolization of people and really mistake reminders then let's go ahead and erect some antifa statues in the CHAZ/CHOP in a few years. I mean... you'd be in favor of that so people in the area know that it was a massive mistake right?

---

Once Antifa is completely crushed, after a few years had passed, absolutely. To show the sheer ignorance of what hypocrisy is. Using fascist tactics and claiming to be anti-fascist is definitely a lesson people should remember and never repeat. Great idea actually.

---

Great thinkers man!

Let's also put up statues of Michael Jackson or Jeffrey Epstein or Jerry Sandusky today then, I mean... they are dead or going to die in prison now so they are completely crushed. They can serve as a reminder to all of us that ignoring claims of sexual impropriety and pedophilia is a bad thing to do.

Hell, what about Dean Corll in the Heights Milroy Park in Houston? This can be a reminder to children and parents alike to never talk to strangers!

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No one is talking about putting up Confederate monuments. They're talking about not tearing them down via mob rule.

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Understood. But it is still hypocrisy at its' finest to claim that these remnants are anything other than idolization of terrible ideas and a time that maybe wasn't the best for particular groups of people in this country.

The line of thinking that letting some of these things stand SYMBOLIZES moving forward from a darker bygone era. It's dumb. If that's what it is about then just get it over with and implement the ultimate symbol that we have evolved as a country and reconsider the names of some of these military bases or whether a statue of a Confederate leader or solider is appropriate for the time we are in anymore let alone any time ever.

All of these monuments and names shouldn't fall via mob rule... I agree with that. It should be a civil community decision. But the other side of the coin is it bugs me to no end that there's a large population content with plugging their ears about this stuff and not at least listening to why these symbols are really problematic for large chunks of the population. And I say all of this not necessarily agreeing that Sully's statue should come down.

Quote:

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WeasleyIsOurKing

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King of the black people over here.

5-years?

Good one Rocky!

BQ78 said:

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Funny World War 2 statues didn't go up after that war either. They tend to go up as the generation that fought the war start dying off. No Iraq wars statues yet but there will be. Besides the south was so poor right after the war they couldn't afford them. Take your Jim Crow theory away and go read contemporary newspaper accounts of what was said when the statues were erected.

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This. Memorials tend to go up 40-60 years after the event. See the Washington, Lincoln and WWII memorials.

And the South was broke and had no money for many years after the war.

The 'in your face' and Jim Crow laws theory of the purpose of the monuments has zero believability.

WeasleyIsOurKing said:

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We have history books, and the Civil War will always be taught.

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This is a big part of the problem and will be even more so in the future. What passes for "history" books/curricula these days is getting more and more one-sided (left). Howard Zinn's crap and the 1619 Project being used in schools is going to ensure that kids have a completely distorted view of history that is closer to fiction than it is to fact.

DallasAg 94 said:

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AgExcel said:

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Then again periodically every few years, seemingly every time someone figures out he's a Confederate soldier (I didn't even know back in the day since I was more concerned about classes than anything else). If we already know it has been a divisive object, we should try and figure out some kind of compromise in order to really make our Aggie family more cohesive rather than keep attacking each other (both sides).

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You realize this isn't about a statue?

It isn't about Sully. It isn't about a statue.

You do realize this? Right?

Every election cycle AAs\Blacks are whirled up into a frenzy about being oppressed, which originates in almost exclusively Democrat-led cities, with almost exclusively Democrat voters.

The blame Conservatives, Republicans, Statues... and then they re-elect the same Democrats who forget them until the next election.

It is Sully this election cycle. Take him down and it will be Rudder and Kyle taken down during the next election cycle.

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It can't be denied that the Confederacy had impact on AA lives and our legislation. It also did fight in support of keeping slavery, so it is understandable how AA would not want to see a statue commemorating that or even have the perception that it does.

Redlining, Jim Crow laws, etc. that people bring up are all valid points. Symbols have power. If we truly believe that this should be only to honor Sully for his good, then it doesn't do good to leave him in a light that suggests we commemorate the Confederacy. It taints his redemptive arch and muddies the water on what is and is not acceptable.

Yet, it is valid that Sully impacted lives on campus, and he did also work with leaders of color. We should probably do better about emphasizing that and tell those stories also.

We are trying to find middle ground and talking down to people for disagreeing isn't any more helpful than the slurs from the other side.

Look at the donors refusing to donate because of this. Then there has been a responding call to not fund those donor businesses anymore. It goes on and on.

We can still honor Sully without causing division. We can still recognize the Confederacy as harmful and also recognize that there were some Confederates who had remorse and changed. These are not exclusive.

I believe many are letting outside politics blind them from seeing how problematic this continued divisiveness is.

Quote:

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Look at the donors refusing to donate because of this. Then there has been a responding call to not fund those donor businesses anymore. It goes on and on.

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That's a perfect example of the point I was making earlier. It encapsulates their entire raison d'etre. It's about punishing those who disagree. Nothing more.

Quote:

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Good one Rocky!

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Thanx. Tune in tomorrow morning. I have a "surprise" for everyone. For now...

Yelnick McWawa said:

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Quote:

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Look at the donors refusing to donate because of this. Then there has been a responding call to not fund those donor businesses anymore. It goes on and on.

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That's a perfect example of the point I was making earlier. It encapsulates their entire raison d'etre. It's about punishing those who disagree. Nothing more.

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Except the donors are the ones who punished first. At this point, neither side has the moral high ground. Both sides are simply beating a dead horse without actually trying to make headway towards real compromise, and all that does is hurt our campus.

At the end of the day, rather than winning/losing, we need to look at it more as "What is really best for our students to foster community/unity?".

Just my two cents.

wargograw said:

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Can anyone explain to me why the Philadelphia Mint produced the Stone Mountain silver dollar in 1925 to commemorate "the valor of the southern soldier"?

Just a bunch of racists in Congress and in Philadelphia or what?

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Exactly yes

AgExcel said:

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Yelnick McWawa said:

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Quote:

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Look at the donors refusing to donate because of this. Then there has been a responding call to not fund those donor businesses anymore. It goes on and on.

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That's a perfect example of the point I was making earlier. It encapsulates their entire raison d'etre. It's about punishing those who disagree. Nothing more.

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Except the donors are the ones who punished first. At this point, neither side has the moral high ground. Both sides are simply beating a dead horse without actually trying to make headway towards real compromise, and all that does is hurt our campus.

At the end of the day, rather than winning/losing, we need to look at it more as "What is really best for our students to foster community/unity?".

Just my two cents.

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There is HUGE difference in withholding donations to a university over something like this vs boycotting a business because they stopped making said donation.
Surely you can see that.

Yelnick McWawa said:

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AgExcel said:

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Yelnick McWawa said:

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Quote:

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Look at the donors refusing to donate because of this. Then there has been a responding call to not fund those donor businesses anymore. It goes on and on.

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That's a perfect example of the point I was making earlier. It encapsulates their entire raison d'etre. It's about punishing those who disagree. Nothing more.

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Except the donors are the ones who punished first. At this point, neither side has the moral high ground. Both sides are simply beating a dead horse without actually trying to make headway towards real compromise, and all that does is hurt our campus.

At the end of the day, rather than winning/losing, we need to look at it more as "What is really best for our students to foster community/unity?".

Just my two cents.

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There is HUGE difference in withholding donations to a university over something like this vs boycotting a business because they stopped making said donation.
Surely you can see that.

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There isn't any difference that I can see since both stem from defunding over something they don't agree with. Defunding all students because some thought to remove a statue doesn't make any more sense than defunding all businesses because some businesses think differently.

If it were removing specific funding from specific people and businesses, that makes sense. Not wanting to fund specific persons is fair since each person can spend their money where they like. Businesses aren't entitled to anyone's money anymore than students are if we go that route.

They are equivalent.

In my eyes, and as far as my own donations are concerned, if I give to a school, it is to fund the opportunity to get an education. It isn't tied to a statue or sports. Since there is some validity to both sides in this, I don't see a reason to pull funding.

Edit:: Personally, this should never have affected donors or donor businesses. All parties should have remained neutral and let the student body decide amongst themselves since it is their university as much as anyone else's. As long as Aggies still believe in loyalty, integrity, excellence, leadership, respect, and selfless service, that is what matters to me.

It seems to me that both sides still believe in those things, but simply disagree on how to show it. That's something to be discussed.

But you're okay with paying for name changes to everything from buildings to benches every few years because a new snowflake is offended?

Even when everything is Building A, Street B, the mathematicians will be offended and want numerals instead of letters.

TexasRebel said:

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But you're okay with paying for name changes to everything from buildings to benches every few years because a new snowflake is offended?

Even when everything is Building A, Street B, the mathematicians will be offended and want numerals instead of letters.

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Truth be told, I really don't care whose name is on which building. I'm not sure the dead really care much either. Living legacies tend to do more good and have more lasting impact on people than a plaque or a statue.

I'm more interested in how we rank in education. Are we hiring vetted professors that teach viable skills to make students successful in their fields? Are we addressing complaints of sexual assault to make campus safer? Are we plugging our students into helpful networks to keep Aggie reputation strong and thriving? Are we addressing instances of bullying and code of conduct violations? Etc, etc.

I am far more interested in what the university has to offer its students and whether we are creating an atmosphere that is welcoming to all in order to grow our school and make sure our legacy is a great one.

Currently, I think radicals on both sides are being ridiculous.

BQ78 said:

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Funny World War 2 statues didn't go up after that war either. They tend to go up as the generation that fought the war start dying off. No Iraq wars statues yet but there will be. Besides the south was so poor right after the war they couldn't afford them. Take your Jim Crow theory away and go read contemporary newspaper accounts of what was said when the statues were erected.

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Lots of WWII monuments. They aren't on horses so not as appealing.

Statues of people are dumb.

If Islam does anything right it's that statues of other people are forbidden because of idolatry and only God deserves worship.

Dan Scott said:

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Statues of people are dumb.

If Islam does anything right it's that statues of other people are forbidden because of idolatry and only God deserves worship.

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Pretty much this.

Dan Scott said:

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Statues of people are dumb.

If Islam does anything right it's that statues of other people are forbidden because of idolatry and only God deserves worship.

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Well yeah.
...and anyone would be dumb to worship a statue.

Doesn't mean a statue can't bring attention to a significant person or event.