MouthBQ98 said:

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So some middling state department appointee person lied their way into a position.

I am going to guess this isn't the first or last time something like this got by.

What does this have to do with Trump?

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Nothing at all. etcetera is simply trolling and thread derailing because he has nothing else to post.

MouthBQ98 said:

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So some middling state department appointee person lied their way into a position.

I am going to guess this isn't the first or last time something like this got by.

What does this have to do with Trump?

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Impeachment evidence must not be going very well.

You rail about Solomon yet neglect to check out the Advisory Board for justsecurity.

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Jake Sullivan

Senior Fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and Brady-Johnson Distinguished Practitioner in Strategy at Yale University. He served in the Obama administration as national security adviser to Vice President Joe Biden and Director of Policy Planning at the U.S. Department of State, as well as deputy chief of staff to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

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Hysterical.

will25u said:

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Do the Republicans in the Senate have the guts to apply the same standards if the Dims actually vote for impeachment? Disallow all Democrat witnesses, limit the scope of questions to just the released transcript, the depth to which the Bidens were involved with inappropriate behavior, and the extent that the DNC and the Clinton campaign were involved in using foreign governments to influence the 2016 elections?

Gary Johnson said:

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Solomon is garbage. An artist not a reporter. You might as well link the Onion or Babylon Bee. But I won't rely on ad hominem:

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You already did...

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I've seen no corroborated reporting of this supposed "raid" and the timelines don't make sense. The Biden threat was December of 2015 and Shokin was already a lame duck. March he was officially voted out by Ukraine's parliament. He was in office a year and he not only failed to prosecute Zlochevsky, he didn't bring a single major case against any politician or oligarch.

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His house was raided in February. This is an indisputable fact.

Get better talking points.

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Half of Solomon's investigation "team" has been arrested

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So more ad hominem...

Wow.

MetoliusAg said:

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The Best People, exhibit 898:

For grifters, grafters, and fraudsters, the opportunities from being associated with Trump is a siren call they can't resist.

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Didn't the Democrat frontrunner lie about indian heritage to gain employment and favor?

captkirk said:

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Tomorrow is going to be **** show.

Gary Johnson said:

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Solomon is garbage. An artist not a reporter. You might as well link the Onion or Babylon Bee. But I won't rely on ad hominem:

I've seen no corroborated reporting of this supposed "raid" and the timelines don't make sense. The Biden threat was December of 2015 and Shokin was already a lame duck. March he was officially voted out by Ukraine's parliament. He was in office a year and he not only failed to prosecute Zlochevsky, he didn't bring a single major case against any politician or oligarch.


Half of Solomon's investigation "team" has been arrested

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Solomon admitted that he had used Lev Parnas to arrange his interviews and serve as his translator. Solomon also sent his work in draft form to Parnas apparently for vetting. Parnas, along with his associate Igor Fruman, worked closely with Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, on the Ukraine intrigues, and were reportedly trying to alter the management of Naftogaz, a Ukrainian gas and oil company, to obtain lucrative contracts. Parnas paid Giuliani $500,000 for consulting on his company called Fraud Guarantee while Firtash paid Parnas through DiGenova and Toensing as "a translator."

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https://www.justsecurity.org/66962/a-dozen-questions-for-john-solomon/

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Here Gary is the original article in Ukrainian: https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-society/1960083-v-gpu-stverdzuut-so-vse-majno-zlocevskogo-perebuvae-pid-arestom.html

And the English translation: http://www.europeanukraine.org/home/2016/02/gpo-seizes-property-of-ex-minister-zlochevsky/

It took a while and some google translate to find it but it's pretty damning for your argument and proves WITHOUT A DOUBT that the PGO under Shokin was out to get Zlochevsky.

Also maybe you should stop slandering Solomon so much.

So you want to know what the previous behind closed doors meetings were for? My guess is to vet the people they brought in. And whether their story is beneficial to them.

Take Volker for instance... His testimony lined up with Trump's and beneficial to Trump. But guess what? He won't be testifying in the open hearings. And also guess what? The Republicans tried to get him in open hearings but the Democrats aren't allowing it.

What a sham.

FriscoKid said:

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captkirk said:

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Tomorrow is going to be **** show.

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All of the sources from Ukraine that Gary Johnson is quoting as the anti-corruption guys were involved in those meetings with Ciaramella, too.

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His house was raided in February. This is an indisputable fact.

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Link it then. The timeline still makes no sense, look at the dates again. He protects Zlochevsky for a year, takes bribes left and right, a whole continent calls for his head, then decides to "comes to Jesus" and get tough on crime weeks before parliament fires him. Sure.

Gary Johnson said:

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His house was raided in February. This is an indisputable fact.

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Link it then. The timeline still makes no sense, look at the dates again. He protects Zlochevsky for a year, takes bribes left and right, a whole continent calls for his head, then decides to "comes to Jesus" and get tough on crime weeks before parliament fires him. Sure.

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Just did Gary go read up a few posts.

Silent For Too Long said:

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Gary Johnson said:

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Solomon is garbage. An artist not a reporter. You might as well link the Onion or Babylon Bee. But I won't rely on ad hominem:

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You already did...

Quote:

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I've seen no corroborated reporting of this supposed "raid" and the timelines don't make sense. The Biden threat was December of 2015 and Shokin was already a lame duck. March he was officially voted out by Ukraine's parliament. He was in office a year and he not only failed to prosecute Zlochevsky, he didn't bring a single major case against any politician or oligarch.

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His house was raided in February. This is an indisputable fact.

Get better talking points.

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Half of Solomon's investigation "team" has been arrested

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So more ad hominem...

Wow.

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In case you missed it and since Gary asked for it:

Original article in Ukrainian about the seizure of Zlochevsky's property: https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-society/1960083-v-gpu-stverdzuut-so-vse-majno-zlocevskogo-perebuvae-pid-arestom.html

And the English translation: http://www.europeanukraine.org/home/2016/02/gpo-seizes-property-of-ex-minister-zlochevsky/

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It took a while and some google translate to find it but it's pretty damning for your argument and proves WITHOUT A DOUBT that the PGO under Shokin was out to get Zlochevsky.

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Just want to add that Zlochevsky was signing Hunter Biden's and Devon Archer's paychecks.

will25u said:

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More to the point, still not seeing anything that compares to what the Democrats want to do to the country and a future environment as some giant Rwanda-Venezuela in attitudes and economics.

The Left's best hope is not impeachment, but that a pro-American option appeared somehow that was a whole party overnight. Because one good Democrat (Tulsi perhaps) won't be able to do it.

Assuming those sketchy links are accurate you stiill have a timeline problem. If he only started pushing heat on Zlochevsky after the rest of the world demanded his firing it tells us nothing about the situation in December 2015. His own deputy stated he was protecting Burisma and resigned over it.

You need to try a Google date range search showing Shokin had a something on Zlov. before December 2015

Gary Johnson said:

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Would you agree that Biden extorted Ukraine to fire a prosecutor using IMF loans? Do you also agree that this is legal?

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Biden doesn't control Germany or the EU or the IMF and extortion generally implies personal gain so no I don't agree jumping on the "fire Shokin bandwagon" comes anywhere near extortion.

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If you can't see that coercing Ukraine into firing a prosecutor isn't legal extortion, we live in two different realities. Its legal because it was on behalf and in the interest of the United States...

Gary Johnson said:

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Assuming those sketchy links are accurate you stiill have a timeline problem. If he only started pushing heat on Zlochevsky after the rest of the world demanded his firing it tells us nothing about the situation in December 2015. His own deputy stated he was protecting Burisma and resigned over it.

You need to try a Google date range search showing Shokin had a something on Zlov. before December 2015

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Which deputy was that? Name and link?

And why was Ambassador Pyatt singing Shokin's praises in December 2015?

Gary Johnson said:

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Assuming those sketchy links are accurate you stiill have a timeline problem. If he only started pushing heat on Zlochevsky after the rest of the world demanded his firing it tells us nothing about the situation in December 2015. His own deputy stated he was protecting Burisma and resigned over it.

You need to try a Google date range search showing Shokin had a something on Zlov. before December 2015

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Sure the actual firing comes a little over a month after the seizures and you want me to go prove that Shokin was after him a couple of months earlier. How long was Shokin working on the feb raid? I won't know and neither will you but I bet Zlochevsky had a heads up for a while.

How about you prove that the Biden cabal did not communicate with the Ukrainian leadership after the raid? Seems as plausible given the situation as your made up scenario of Biden just being a concerned global citizen and his son had nothing to do with anything.

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If you can't see that coercing Ukraine into firing a prosecutor isn't legal extortion, we live in two different realities. Its legal because it was on behalf and in the interest of the United States...

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As a simple matter of foreign policy, you would be correct. If done for the financial enrichment of his son, himself or any other associate including George Soros, not so much.

MetoliusAg said:

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captkirk said:

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Clearly Trump should have more fully investigated her resume

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No doubt. In this photo, General Petraeus apparently is trying to:

The Trump administration's vetting process of executive branch appointees chosen by the Trump Administration has been near-nonexistent from day one.

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Valerie Jarrett mocks your idea of vetting.

MetoliusAg said:

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After the leaks had started and Wikileaks had already said publicly there would be more.

Talking about what is already publicly known is not a crime.

You're really digging under the barrel now.

What do you think, hawgie? Should the HoR R's request Chalupa be called as a witness in the impeachment hearings?

Or her statement is a bluff.

Rapier108 said:

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MetoliusAg said:

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After the leaks had started and Wikileaks had already said publicly there would be more.

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Wrong.

And in his sworn written statements to Mueller, Trump claimed he couldn't recall talking to Stone and others about it.

Oh brother. "Sketchy links."

I think you've made it perfectly clear you are not interested in the actual facts and are just to here to push your agenda.

MetoliusAg said:

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Rapier108 said:

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MetoliusAg said:

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After the leaks had started and Wikileaks had already said publicly there would be more.

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Wrong.

And in his sworn written statements to Mueller, Trump claimed he couldn't recall talking to Stone and others about it.

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As usual, you are being clueless or intentionally obtuse.

Trump said he didn't recall the conversation. Prove he did.

Second, even if they talked about it, there was nothing nefarious. The leaks were occurring and Wikileaks said there would be more. Stone had no contacts or inside information about it.

You're getting more desperate by the moment.

Read my response again. I think you read that wrong. Pyatt wasn't praising Shokin.

The deputy in question was Vitaly Kasko.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/23/20879611/joe-biden-hunter-biden-ukraine-corruption-prosecutor-burisma-donald-trump-whistleblower-complaint

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But Shokin's deputy, Vitaly Kasko, told Bloomberg that the promise was empty rhetoric. According to Kasko, their office did nothing to pursue its investigation into Zlochevsky throughout 2015, and the office was ineffective at reining in corruption generally, leading him to resign in frustration.

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I can see how there's enough muddy water here that anyone can justify any belief about what went on. But if you step back and look big picture It's implausible all of Europe got united behind Hunter Biden's little scam and wanted to protect his 5 figure/mo salary, groundswell UKR public opinion, withheld billions, and reverse course to encourage, not stop corporation. Inconceivable.

Then let her testify. I realize you have no desire for truth but some of us want to see all the people testify.

MetoliusAg said:

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Posting the same crap twice doesn't make it actually mean more than the nothing it meant the first time.