***** OFFICIAL TRUMP IMPEACHMENT THREAD *****

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hbtheduce
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AG
Gary Johnson said:

I'm not a dem or Hillary lover. Trump "took millions" from China, Russia, and Saudi Arabia, you can do this all day. Every listed company on the DOW "took millions" from foreigners. Not a crime unless there's a crime.


Answer the question. How much money has Trump taken from Ukraine since his election?

Edit: You claim he is currently being impeached for "bribery" in Ukraine. So its the pertinent country.
Gary Johnson
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How much has he taken from Ukrainian companies and nationals? I don't know do you? His various businesses are still involved with China, Russia, Saudi, UAE, and various tax havens. So what?
Gary Johnson
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Agnzona said:

If Trump got money it's for ligit business deals if Dems got money it's for influence peddling.


Citation needed. But you seem to have your mind already made up.

Quote:

You are a damn liar


Citation needed.

Quote:

You claim he is currently being impeached for "bribery" in Ukraine.


Citation needed.
hbtheduce
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AG
Gary Johnson said:

How much has he taken from Ukrainian companies and nationals? I don't know do you? His various businesses are still involved with China, Russia, Saudi, UAE, and various tax havens. So what?


Yeah just like Biden could be innocent, Trump is likely all kosher as well. Biden's son publicly took large sums of money without having a good cover.

Notice the dems in congress haven't even claimed Trump has been taking money for policy. Notice nary a cia agent has claimed trumped pushed foreign governments to patronize his company abroad in exchange for foreign policy.

That's the type of stuff dems should investigate if you want to claim Trump is being "Bribed".
78_Pacecar
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It's 7:27 AM CST on November 12, 2019 and Donald J. Trump is STILL the POTUS...



and Jeffrey Epstein STILL didn't kill himself.

I've wanted to post this for weeks, but never get on early enough!
Joe Exotic
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Moderate and retiring Trump hater Will Hurd even calls it what it is...


Quote:


"I would love to hear from Hunter Biden," said Rep. Will Hurd, R-Texas, on "Fox News Sunday." Hurd, a moderate who has been critical of Trump, said the impeachment inquiry "has been a partisan exercise from the very beginning" and that in past impeachment proceedings the minority had been allowed to call its own witnesses.
captkirk
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AG
Hurd needs to talk with Gary Johnson. He'll clear it all up. Doesn't Hurd understand that potential scandal has been "debunked"
Spotted Ag
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78_Pacecar said:

It's 7:27 AM CST on November 12, 2019 and Donald J. Trump is STILL the POTUS...



and Jeffrey Epstein STILL didn't kill himself.

I've wanted to post this for weeks, but never get on early enough!
Know your role and stay in your lane!

Covidians, Communists, CNN, FOX, and all other MSM are enemies of the state and should be treated as such.
Spotted Ag
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AG
It's 8:46 AM on November 12, 2019 and Donald J. Trump is STILL the POTUS...





and Jeffrey Epstein STILL didn't kill himself!
Covidians, Communists, CNN, FOX, and all other MSM are enemies of the state and should be treated as such.
Gary Johnson
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captkirk said:

Hurd needs to talk with Gary Johnson. He'll clear it all up. Doesn't Hurd understand that potential scandal has been "debunked"


Oh Hurd wants to talk to Hunter, that totally negates these facts

1) Shokin was dirty
2) Shokin did nothing on Burisma
3) An entire continent was pressuring Shokin out before any Biden got involved
4) The state department supported forcing out his predecessor for gumming up an English investigation in to Zlochevsky. This is completely at odds with the conspiracy narrative.

US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt gave a speech in Ukraine in September 2015:
Quote:

for example, in the case of former Ecology Minister Mykola Zlochevsky, the U.K. authorities had seized 23 million dollars in illicit assets that belonged to the Ukrainian people. Officials at the PGO's office were asked by the U.K to send documents supporting the seizure. Instead they sent letters to Zlochevsky's attorneys attesting that there was no case against him. As a result the money was freed by the U.K. court and shortly thereafter the money was moved to Cyprus.

That problem threatens everything that the Rada, the Cabinet, the National Reform Council, and. others are doing to push political and economic reforms forward and make life better for Ukrainians, and it flies in the face of what the Revolution of Dignity is trying to achieve. That obstacle is the failure of the institution of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine to successfully fight internal corruption.


The Obama/Biden administration state department was not protecting Zlochevsky, it was actively working against him.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Remarks-by-US-Ambassador-Geoffrey-Pyatt-at-the-Odesa-Financial-Forum-on-September-24-2015-ukraine.pdf
aggiehawg
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AG


He was happy with Shokin a few months later.

Interesting thread here with docs.
ProgN
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Spotted Ag said:

78_Pacecar said:

It's 7:27 AM CST on November 12, 2019 and Donald J. Trump is STILL the POTUS...



and Jeffrey Epstein STILL didn't kill himself.

I've wanted to post this for weeks, but never get on early enough!
Know your role and stay in your lane!


That made me LOL irl.
78_Pacecar
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AG
Prognightmare said:

Spotted Ag said:

78_Pacecar said:

It's 7:27 AM CST on November 12, 2019 and Donald J. Trump is STILL the POTUS...



and Jeffrey Epstein STILL didn't kill himself.

I've wanted to post this for weeks, but never get on early enough!
Know your role and stay in your lane!


That made me LOL irl.
Me too. mea culpa mea maxima culpa
aggie2812-2
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Wait....you're stating something as fact but yet can't say how much he's made? Come man, if your going to argue a point have the facts to back it up. Now you just look silly and make yourself look like one of those losers who just cry's about made up crap. Bring the facts.
hbtheduce
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Gary Johnson
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aggiehawg said:



He was happy with Shokin a few months later.

Interesting thread here with docs.


Nice try. Shokin didn't want that hire or make the call. Is this McIntyre guy unable to read his own cited sources or is he intentionally misleading? He relies heavily on Giuliani conspiracy fantasies.

Quote:

Shokin's representatives lobbied the commission to nominate Hovda, although civil society strongly resisted and prevailed. Critics regarded him as a defender of the old system and a Shokin protge. In fact, sacking Shokin has been a major demand of civil society for months.

"Kholodnytsky will be judged by his results," Vitaly Shabunin, a member of the commission and head of the Anti-Corruption Action Center's management board,
hbtheduce
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Gary Johnson said:


Quote:

You claim he is currently being impeached for "bribery" in Ukraine.


Citation needed.

I will adjust my argument since its only Metolius who has pushed "Bribery & Extortion" while you have only suggested Trump is guilty of Extortion.


Would you agree that Biden extorted Ukraine to fire a prosecutor using IMF loans? Do you also agree that this is legal?
Gary Johnson
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aggie2812-2 said:

Wait....you're stating something as fact but yet can't say how much he's made? Come man, if your going to argue a point have the facts to back it up. Now you just look silly and make yourself look like one of those losers who just cry's about made up crap. Bring the facts.


I never stated Trump has business dealings with Ukrainians. I have no idea. My point was even if he had, so what?
Gary Johnson
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Quote:


Would you agree that Biden extorted Ukraine to fire a prosecutor using IMF loans? Do you also agree that this is legal?

Biden doesn't control Germany or the EU or the IMF and extortion generally implies personal gain so no I don't agree jumping on the "fire Shokin bandwagon" comes anywhere near extortion.
will25u
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Biden didn't know about or talk with his son about his business dealings? Huh...
aggiehawg
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AG
It is very hard to determine who is telling the truth here as timelines get twisted and conflated (deliberately, in my view.)

Quote:

In 2014-2015, the prosecutor's office, managed by then Prosecutor General Vitaliy Yarema, assisted Zlochevsky with unblocking $23.5 million seized in the U.K.

In April 2014, British law enforcement officers opened a case into possible $35 million money laundering allegedly committed by Zlochevsky. The Ukrainian party became aware of this in late July 2014.

However, instead of providing maximum support and evidence for British investigation, the
PGO issued two controversial letters to Zlochevsky's defense party claiming "uncertain legal status and absence of notification of suspicion of Mykola Zlochevsky." In t he meantime, the British law enforcers received just a partial response on their inquiry.

The PGO announced charges to Zlochevsky only in December 2014, but this was too late. The London court decided to unblock the seized assets, as the Prosecutor General's Office failed to provide evidence on illicit origin of $23.5 million on the accounts of Zlochevsky's companies.
So all of that predated Shokin who was not appointed until February 2015.

Quote:

In the course of the abovementioned investigation, on Dec. 29, 2014, Zlochevsky was notified of charges in illicit enrichment in large-scale and money laundering. To investigate this case, Ukrainian investigators had to establish the origin and legitimacy of significant funds on bank accounts of companies belonging to Zlochevskyi as a former top official.
However, despite considerable public attention, the illicit enrichment of Zlochevskiy was never properly investigated and sent to the court in two years the investigation mystically transformed into the case of tax evasion by chief accountant of one the Burisma holding companies. This was done under the Yuriy Lutsenko's leadership at the PGO.
In the same criminal proceeding into alleged illicit enrichment, in October 2016, PGO investigators asked the State Fiscal Service to hold an unscheduled tax audit of Esko-Pivnich LLC, one of the companies of Burisma holding. The audit concerned the period of 8 months of 2016 and established some violations. As a result, the chief accountant of the company was declared a scapegoat and notified of suspicion of tax evasion.
The accountant paid outstanding taxes as prescribed by the audit, thus eliminating the grounds for criminal charges in tax evasion. The amount paid by accountant constituted 50 million UAH (approx. $1.9 mln), which was only a fraction of alleged evasion.
However, this resulted also in closure in November 2016 of the criminal proceedings regarding possible illicit enrichment and money laundering allegedly committed by Zlochevsky. Available information shows no logic in the actions of PGO investigators who combined the episode of company's tax evasion in 2016 with the criminal proceedings on illicit enrichment and money laundering allegedly committed by Zlochevskyi in 2010-2014.
Quote:

Since May 7, 2014, PGO was investigating alleged criminal activity of Ukrainian subsidiaries of Burisma, which in conspiracy with state-owned enterprise Ukrgasvydobuvannya caused substantive loses to Ukrainian budget. Burisma subsidiaries were suspected of extracting and selling gas in Ukraine for significantly discounted prices to related companies to reduce official profits, which according to the agreements on joint activity had to be shared with the state-owned company.
On July 7, 2016, Lutsenko personally held a press briefing and accused Burisma subsidiaries of conspiracy and tax evasion amounting to Hr 1 billion ($70 million) during 2014-2015.
Strangely enough, starting from October 2016 the criminal investigation abruptly stopped mentioning subsidiaries of Burisma. Thus, the company was cleared even without closing criminal investigation.
Please note I quoting in sequence with how the article was written. There is much jumping back and forth between timelines covering three separate PGOs. Yarema, Shokin and Lutshenko.

Kyiv Post
Gary Johnson
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Far as I can tell there were 4 total cases in question. 1 was sabotaged shortly before Shokin got there. 2 overlapped Shokin and he did nothing as he was too busy with his bribery solicitation side hustle.

Another started in 2016 involving Zlochevsky when he was ecology minister, but not Burisma and is still an active investigation.

https://nabu.gov.ua/novyny/rozyasnennya-shchodo-perevirky-nabu-zastupnyka-minekologiyi
captkirk
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AG
I guess Rep Bishop has no issue with naming the whistle blower

Stressboy
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So Gary you never answered this post that refuted your claims that Shokin was not going after Zlochevsky right before getting fired. Below is the post to help you out.

I know I'm dredging up an old argument but here is proof that Shokin was going after the head of Burisma at the time he got canned. They had raided Zlochevsky's home and seized documents on Feb 2, 2016.

March 2016 Biden forces Shokin out.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/322395.html

and I got the link from Solomon. https://johnsolomonreports.com/debunking-some-of-the-ukraine-scandal-myths-about-biden-and-election-interference/

I really don't know who you can spin this as nothing to see here nor why you would try. The article you linked as I stated before just outlined that the predecessor and successor to Shokin were both corrupt in regards to Burisma and here is actual proof that Shokin's group was after the head of the company a month before firing.
Gary Johnson
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Solomon is garbage. An artist not a reporter. You might as well link the Onion or Babylon Bee. But I won't rely on ad hominem:

I've seen no corroborated reporting of this supposed "raid" and the timelines don't make sense. The Biden threat was December of 2015 and Shokin was already a lame duck. March he was officially voted out by Ukraine's parliament. He was in office a year and he not only failed to prosecute Zlochevsky, he didn't bring a single major case against any politician or oligarch.


Half of Solomon's investigation "team" has been arrested
Quote:

Solomon admitted that he had used Lev Parnas to arrange his interviews and serve as his translator. Solomon also sent his work in draft form to Parnas apparently for vetting. Parnas, along with his associate Igor Fruman, worked closely with Rudy Giuliani, Trump's personal attorney, on the Ukraine intrigues, and were reportedly trying to alter the management of Naftogaz, a Ukrainian gas and oil company, to obtain lucrative contracts. Parnas paid Giuliani $500,000 for consulting on his company called Fraud Guarantee while Firtash paid Parnas through DiGenova and Toensing as "a translator."


https://www.justsecurity.org/66962/a-dozen-questions-for-john-solomon/
MetoliusAg
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The Best People, exhibit 898:



For grifters, grafters, and fraudsters, the opportunities from being associated with Trump is a siren call they can't resist.
chimmy
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https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html
Quote:

With this pressure mounting, Parliament on Tuesday voted by a comfortable margin to remove Mr. Shokin.

In the final hours before Parliament voted him out, Mr. Shokin had fired his reform-minded deputy prosecutor, David Sakvarelidze, with whom he had been feuding. It was not immediately clear whether that firing would remain in force.

With the prosecutor's office in turmoil throughout Ukraine on Tuesday, one of Mr. Sakvarelidze's appointees in the Odessa regional office was arrested by military prosecutors, assumed to be loyal to Mr. Shokin.

Foreign donors had complained about rot in the prosecutor's office, not least because much of the money suspected of being stolen was theirs.

In one high-profile example, known in Ukraine as the case of the "diamond prosecutors," troves of diamonds, cash and other valuables were found in the homes of two of Mr. Shokin's subordinates, suggesting that they had been taking bribes.

But the case became bogged down, with no reasons given. When a department in Mr. Shokin's office tried to bring it to trial, the prosecutors were fired or resigned. The perpetrators seemed destined to get off with claims that the stones were not worth very much.

For many Ukrainians, the case encapsulated a failure to follow through on the sweeping promises made during the heady days of the revolution to root out corruption and establish a modern, transparent state. Instead, there has seemed to be a return to business-as-usual horse-trading and compromise among the tightly knit Ukrainian oligarchic and business elite.

Since his appointment a year ago, Mr. Shokin had been criticized for not prosecuting officials, businessmen and members of Parliament for their roles in corrupt schemes during the government of former President Viktor F. Yanukovych. He also did not press cases for sniping by the police and opposition activists during the street protests in 2014 that killed more than 100 people and wounded about 1,000.

Biden want to remove Shokin, and Shokin was corrupt by our standards, but the real motivation for the new Ukrainian government to remove him is highlighted above.
captkirk
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AG
Clearly Trump should have more fully investigated her resume
will25u
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BuddysBud
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AG
MetoliusAg said:

The Best People, exhibit 898:



For grifters, grafters, and fraudsters, the opportunities from being associated with Trump is a siren call they can't resist.


Warren therefore should be removed from office for embellishing her resume?
MetoliusAg
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captkirk said:

Clearly Trump should have more fully investigated her resume
No doubt. In this photo, General Petraeus apparently is trying to:

The Trump administration's vetting process of executive branch appointees chosen by the Trump Administration has been near-nonexistent from day one.
will25u
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This seems pretty YUGE!

BuddysBud
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AG
MetoliusAg said:

captkirk said:

Clearly Trump should have more fully investigated her resume
No doubt. In this photo, General Petraeus apparently is trying to:

The Trump administration's vetting process of executive branch appointees chosen by the Trump Administration has been near-nonexistent from day one.


Based upon the Democrat presidential candidates, the Virginia governor, lieutenant governor, the San Francisco D.A., etc., the DNC should do a better job of vetting their people.
TexAgs91
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AG
BuddysBud said:

MetoliusAg said:

The Best People, exhibit 898:



For grifters, grafters, and fraudsters, the opportunities from being associated with Trump is a siren call they can't resist.


Warren therefore should be removed from office for embellishing her resume?
Exactly. She mischaracterized her high cheekbones as indian cheekbones. Everyone knows that only indian based high cheekbones matters at Harvard!
"Freedom is never more than one election away from extinction"
Fight! Fight! Fight!
MouthBQ98
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AG
So some middling state department appointee person lied their way into a position.

I am going to guess this isn't the first or last time something like this got by.

What does this have to do with Trump?
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