***** OFFICIAL TRUMP IMPEACHMENT THREAD *****

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FriscoKid
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MetoliusAg
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Breaking news:



If it's true that these 3 have agreed to be deposed -- which frankly I doubt -- then that is probably good news for Trump. I think Eisenberg and Ellis will do like Barr did: put lawyerly spins on bad behavior and try to minimize it.

Bolton can plead ignorance, since he apparently kept mostly clear of the mess and principle actors engaged in the quid pro quo, and wisely pushed it down onto his subordinates to deal with it.

MetoliusAg
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Otoh, when key NSC witnesses like Morrison are choosing to get out of the WH or are being asked to leave, that is a bad sign for Trump, Giuliani, and Mulvaney.

Wildcat
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This is all such a clown show. They lock the whole thing down, but everyone going and coming is known and magically there are reports of what whomever said in testimony.

hbtheduce
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Sounds like a good chunk establishment plants within the White House are all being exposed as a last ditch effort to impeach him.

Good news to me.
Rockdoc
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Yep, rats are scattering.
Line Ate Member
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There was one other person who did a fantastic job at gathering information from all over the place and posting it here. He was known as many names and genders. Maybe mfbarnes is now seeking the shelter of the protected left.
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EKUAg
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Warren, Sanders and Buttigieg all have said the would hold up aid to Israel unless the change on Gaza. Sounds like a quid pro quo to me.

Schiff must think he is another Weissman.
aggiehawg
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Line Ate Member said:

There was one other person who did a fantastic job at gathering information from all over the place and posting it here. He was known as many names and genders. Maybe mfbarnes is now seeking the shelter of the protected left.
No. Barnes is still lifting my posts from the Mueller thread and tweeting them out as his own. Which I don't mind in the least. Just as long as he doesn't use my name on twitter, I'm fine with that.
aggiehawg
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Quote:

Schiff must think he is another Weissman.
He's sorely mistaken if he does. I hate Weissmann as a corrupt and completely unethical lawyer but his mental and legal acuity runs rings around Schiff.
TRADUCTOR
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delregio~rosco~drcinium
never skipped a beat, spoils of mad research still delivering.
aggiehawg
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law-apt-3g said:

delregio~rosco~drcinium
never skipped a beat, spoils of mad research still delivering.
No. drcrinum is actually a doctor. Not a Barnes alter.

ETA: Dumb spelling error corrected.
will25u
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Greg Rubini called this almost 2 weeks ago.




policywonk98
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MetoliusAg said:

Been saying this for awhile, and it becomes more accurate with every passing day of new testimony:

-- Despite the mountain of evidence proving that Trump and Giuliani pushed an illegal quid pro quo, almost all of Trump's sycophants are still claiming Trump did nothing wrong.

-- Eventually the same Trump supporters will be saying: "Yes, Trump did it. And yes, it was wrong of him and Giuliani. But even though it was an abuse of Presidential power, it falls just short of the level warranting removal from office by the Senate."

A handful of the more astute Trump apologists see the handwriting on the wall & are already there.


You realize that the gist of what Trump said on that phone call with Zalinsky and the policy explained by Mulvaney, Trump has written about in three different books written over 15 years leading up to his presidential campaign launch.

Books by Donald J Trump
2000- The America We Deserve
2011- Time to Get Tough
2015- Great Again

You can disagree with his policies, policy approach, demeanor, word choice, life, character, and on and on. But the man is executing on what he's written about and said consistently for 20 years. In all three books he heavily criticizes Europe and all the policymakers since WW2 that spend American money and lives on countries around the world while asking nothing of real value in return from those that call us friends and allies. He's specifically write scathing critiques of our State Department and Foreign Policy Experts.

I'm not saying I agree with all of his conclusions. I'm certainly no fan of his approach to life or politics. But the man is doing what he has written and said for nearly 20 years.

That Biden, a 40 year washington politician with a particular focus on foreign relations, is caught up in what Trump is executing on, is not irrelevant, but it's very clearly not his motivation unless he's some type of supernatural prophet that knew in the year 2000 that his policy beliefs 20 years later as president would be able to "bring down" his political opponent for President.

I myself didnt take Trump very seriously. Before his presidency I had watched many interviews of Trump and read many articles, but I had never read any of his books accept for some excerpts of Art of the Deal and the Comeback way back in college. But as I read these books and re-read much of the policy platform of Ross Perot it became clear. Trump has a distinct political philosophy, he has been consistent on it for a long period of time, he's defended it, he ran for president on it, he won the presidency with it, and now he's following through with it.

He's not a political insider, and yes, in all three of the books I listed, he very clearly broadcasts his low view of the job career policymakers, bureaucrats, and experts have done. (I.e. all of the career policy advisors and state department diplomats he has ticked off by ignoring their advice on the proper ways to approach XYZ diplomacy)

This is not an endorsement. Just an explanation based on observation that the aid withheld from Ukraine is right in line with his stated beliefs over the last 20 years and consistent with Mulvaney explaination in the presser, Trumps own explaination, the notes from the call itself, and Zalenskys own comments and reasons for rising to power.

While progressives keep yelling about quid pro quo. They seem to be making alot of noise in what appears to be an attempt to protect the status quo, which includes corruption, something both the current American President and Ukrainian president ran on ending.
Zobel
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Very good post.
Gary Johnson
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Everything you said may be true but ignores the allegation. Abusing the office for personal gain.

Withholding for the "Ukraine server" idiotic conspiracy would also be ok; as it relates to national interest in an ongoing investigation. Not the Biden stuff.
richardag
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policywonk98 said:

You realize that the gist of what Trump said on ...
I appreciate the post, information I was not aware of at all.

Thank you
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
agsfan
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Semi-surprisingly, Bolton lawyer is saying he will show up if the house subpoenas him.
His lawyer is the same one used by Kupperman who didn't show up to testify on Monday and filed suit to get judge to make decision on subpoena.
GCP12
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John Bolton will be a hilarious "hero" for the resistance
policywonk98
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Gary Johnson said:

Everything you said may be true but ignores the allegation. Abusing the office for personal gain.

Withholding for the "Ukraine server" idiotic conspiracy would also be ok; as it relates to national interest in an ongoing investigation. Not the Biden stuff.


Right. Following through on a 20 year old policy position has prophetically led to personal gain. I addressed the allegation as I wanted to in my post.
Gary Johnson
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The "tell" is the ask for the public announcement.

Embarrassment was the goal, not coordinating and sharing information on a legit investigation that never has or will exist because there's nothing there.
Zobel
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Gary Johnson said:

The "tell" is the ask for the public announcement.

Embarrassment was the goal, not coordinating and sharing information on a legit investigation that never has or will exist because there's nothing there.


You have no way of knowing this.
aggiehawg
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Gary Johnson said:

Everything you said may be true but ignores the allegation. Abusing the office for personal gain.

Withholding for the "Ukraine server" idiotic conspiracy would also be ok; as it relates to national interest in an ongoing investigation. Not the Biden stuff.
So please explain in detail how what Biden has confessed to doing and what Trump didn't do successfully constitutes "abusing the office for personal gain."
ProgN
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Great post sir.
Matt Hooper
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The Biden stuff?
Saying he thinks Biden bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired by threatening to withhold a billion dollars in loan guarantees was - very bad. And it was the Ukrainian Pres that brought Biden up first - not Trump.

Was there something else?
RGLAG85
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MetoliusAg said:

Been saying this for awhile, and it becomes more accurate with every passing day of new testimony:

-- Despite the mountain of false accusations that Trump and Giuliani pushed an illegal quid pro quo, almost all of leftist sycophants are still claiming Orange man bad.

-- Eventually the same leftist supporters will be saying: "Yes, Trump did nothing wrong. And yes, it was wrong of **** for brains and the ignorant dems. But even though it was a dereliction of the house's duty, it fails miserably short of the level warranting removal from office by the Senate."

A handful of the more astute leftist apologists see the handwriting on the wall & are already there.
FIFY
Gary Johnson
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Biden was just following the IMF and EU's lead. Shokin was dirty and had to go. No personal gain there.

The rub has to be that Hunter Biden gained by doing a solid for Zlochevsky since the cases predate his involvement. But Shokin was protecting Burisma/Zlochevsky if anything, among his other crimes.
Bonfire1996
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With Apple and Facebook crushing earnings, and both guiding for record Oct-Dec quarters, a strong consumer with cash in their pockets, and a democratic primary beginning in January after that....

This election is over. Go ahead and impeach him during one of the strongest holiday economic seasons ever. You guys are the dumbest mother effers I've ever seen.
Rockdoc
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Yep, these libs just don't get it and continue to carry water for their corrupt heros. They'll wake up next year but it will be too late.
Bonfire1996
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Gary Johnson said:

Biden was just following the IMF and EU's lead. Shokin was dirty and had to go. No personal gain there.

The rub has to be that Hunter Biden gained by doing a solid for Zlochevsky since the cases predate his involvement. But Shokin was protecting Burisma/Zlochevsky if anything, among his other crimes.
The left and media could credibly make the argument that Biden was a champion for anti-corruption in Ukraine and had altruistic motives with regards to the prosecutor......if China and Air Force Two didn't happen. But it did. And everything was so very similar.

It doesn't matter what Trump did or didn't do, did or didn't promise, did or didn't threaten. Joe and Hunter are guilty of corruption and because of that, Trump gets a pass. Trump told the American people he was coming to drain the swamp, and rooting out a corrupt Biden family, no matter the methods, is why Trump was elected.
4stringAg
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Gary Johnson said:

Everything you said may be true but ignores the allegation. Abusing the office for personal gain.

Withholding for the "Ukraine server" idiotic conspiracy would also be ok; as it relates to national interest in an ongoing investigation. Not the Biden stuff.


Biden stuff is of national interest as well. The guy is running for and could win the Presidency and his actions as VP are indicative of what he might do as President. He's on video admitting to a quid pro quo which is more than the Dems have on Trump that they think is impeachment worthy.
aggiehawg
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Gary Johnson said:

Biden was just following the IMF and EU's lead. Shokin was dirty and had to go. No personal gain there.

The rub has to be that Hunter Biden gained by doing a solid for Zlochevsky since the cases predate his involvement. But Shokin was protecting Burisma/Zlochevsky if anything, among his other crimes.
Uhmm, no. Do you really think the IMF gives a f*** about corruption? All they care about is the US loan guarantees as that makes their books look great. When Obama and Biden tell the IMF, we won't guarantee those loans unless Shokin is fired, what is the IMF going to say?

Ditto the EU. They want the US on the hook, not them. So if Obama wants Shokin gone, they will be cool with it too. No skin off of their noses.
Gary Johnson
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Quote:

Uhmm, no. Do you really think the IMF gives a f*** about corruption?


Whether they "care" or not is subjective but probably. They and the EU held $10 billion back pending corruption reforms. So it appears they give a ***** Much more $ involved than the US.

They were the big stick here, not Biden. Links available upon request but I'm on a mobile tonight.
Matt Hooper
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Don't forget about Biden's brother getting a high paying gig with a construction company (he had not prior experience in), then SOB, that company gets a billion $ contract in Iraq.

Nothing to be concerned with. No pattern at all.
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