Hmmm.....So this may be the way Flynn's phone calls were obtained.

drcrinum said:

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Hmmm.....So this may be the way Flynn's phone calls were obtained.

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Of course it was!

I said as much earlier!

Okay, I'm sure EO 12333 is legal, as Kathryn Ruemmler, among several other attorneys reviewed this, but it seems to me that it automatically allows unmasking to two other alphabet agencies without the proper validation as per Mke Rogers.

Secondly, who else did they spy on in those six days, or for that matter, I guess until January 20th. Or, does an EO automatically carry over to the next President until it's cancelled?

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Secondly, who else did they spy on in those six days, or for that matter, I guess until January 20th. Or, does an EO automatically carry over to the next President until it's cancelled?

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Who else did they spy on? Don't know, especially if the only way to query it is by target, not the query-er.

Some EO's carry over, some have to be renewed each new President. Not sure how to tell which.

EO 12333 was signed by Reagan in 1981. It's the rules under it that spread out the raw data. Remember Dark as letting the cat out of the bag.

Also remember they were recommending Rogers be fired as well but I guess none of them had the cajones.

Housley is an actual reporter and he's been pretty nails on stuff.

Secolobo said:

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I have some theories:

1. Get Flynn jail time for ANYTHING to appease the left and remove a chess piece a little longer
2. Get Flynn for anything he can and force a Trump pardon so the left and media can wail about it throughout campaign season
3. Force an amicus from a higher court or some other remedy (like his removal from the case) so the decision is no longer his and whatever kompramat the left has on him won't be deployed.

Boodlum said:

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Two more weeks.

Andy McCarthy makes an interesting observation about why there was no unmasking request pertaining to the December 29, 2016 phone call between Flynn and Kislyak.

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The CIA collects intelligence not under FISA but under Executive Order 12,333. The CIA is not governed by FISA because its intelligence operations are conducted outside the United States; the FBI is under FISA because its foreign counterintelligence mission is principally domestic.

Interesting thing about that: Flynn was not in the United States on December 29, 2016. He was taking a short vacation in the Dominican Republic. Where was Kislyak when they spoke? I don't know. There is plenty of media reporting about Flynn being overseas, and about Flynn speaking with Kislyak. But if there is Western media reporting about Kislyak's whereabouts, I haven't found it. Obviously, though, this was the holiday week between Christmas and New Year's Day if the Russian ambassador was in the U.S. capital, he was the only pol or diplomat who hadn't skipped town for a respite after the heated 2016 election. Moreover, New Year's is an important holiday in Russia, where most of those who observe Christmas do so on January 7, in the tradition of the Orthodox Church. It is reasonable to suppose that the ambassador may have been home in Russia, or otherwise outside the United States, in late December. I do not know that for a fact, but I'd be surprised if it weren't true.

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The CIA played a central role. The agency collaborated I'm tempted to say colluded! with a variety of friendly foreign intelligence services, especially NATO countries that Trump made a habit of bashing on the campaign trail. Don't take my word for it. Here's what former CIA director John Brennan told the House Intelligence Committee:

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I was aware of intelligence and information about contacts between Russian officials and U.S. persons that raised concerns in my mind about whether or not those individuals were cooperating with the Russians, either in a witting or unwitting fashion, and it served as the basis for the FBI investigation to determine whether such collusion cooperation occurred.

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Brennan elaborated that, with respect to "leads that involved U.S. persons" that came to the CIA's attention, he "made sure that anything that was involving U.S. persons, including anything involving the individuals involved in the Trump campaign, was shared with the bureau."

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LINK

Phenomenal Twitter threat by John Huber that lays out the timeline on the Flynn guilty plea. It's easy to forget how so many things we know now weren't known then and how they were used to pressure Flynn into pleading guilty. Here is the link: Huber Tweet

Couple highlights:

I don't know how anyone can read this and not feel like Stalin was overseeing the investigation.

Hilarious Tucker Carlson clip last night on unmasking.

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One of the big things it means is that the Obama administration was pulling surveillance information on everything the Trump team did as those developments progressed. It means (and I guarantee you it means this) that Flynn, the incoming national security adviser, wasn't the only one who was being unmasked. It's a really good bet that Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson, Mike Pompeo, James Mattis, and others with national security-related portfolios were being spied on. (So were others with other portfolios, I am sure, such as energy, environmental, and health policy. The contents of their communications may not have been Hoovered in for inspection, however.)

We've heard today (Friday) that the list of formal unmaskings of Flynn constitutes less than 5% of what Richard Grenell has forwarded records of. I'm sure that's accurate. Again, the list we got Wednesday applies only to Flynn, and it only contains the formal unmaskings done through official requests to NSA.

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Can't be emphasized enough. More is coming and hopefully very soon. Ratcliffe's confirmation vote is supposed to be next week, so he can finish it.

aggiehawg said:

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One of the big things it means is that the Obama administration was pulling surveillance information on everything the Trump team did as those developments progressed. It means (and I guarantee you it means this) that Flynn, the incoming national security adviser, wasn't the only one who was being unmasked. It's a really good bet that Donald Trump, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson, Mike Pompeo, James Mattis, and others with national security-related portfolios were being spied on. (So were others with other portfolios, I am sure, such as energy, environmental, and health policy. The contents of their communications may not have been Hoovered in for inspection, however.)

We've heard today (Friday) that the list of formal unmaskings of Flynn constitutes less than 5% of what Richard Grenell has forwarded records of. I'm sure that's accurate. Again, the list we got Wednesday applies only to Flynn, and it only contains the formal unmaskings done through official requests to NSA.

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Can't be emphasized enough. More is coming and hopefully very soon. Ratcliffe's confirmation vote is supposed to be next week, so he can finish it.

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I've got a feeling that Grenell is doing the grunt work, but Barr has the authority from Trump to actually declass documents. Grenell is just digging through them, and Barr probably declassed the last batch on unmasking and told Grenell to release them any way he saw fit.

Finn said:

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Would be clutch if it comes out they were spying on Bernie or some Dems. To see the mental gymnastics would be great.

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Wouldn't take much gymnastics on Bernie, they've already called into question his ties with Russia (I believe Hillary said it, naturally) so they would just ramp up that rhetoric.

I want them to show an exhaustive list going back to 2012 (likely even earlier) to show spying on everyone and sit back with popcorn to watch them try to spin that s*itbutger.

Finn said:

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Would be clutch if it comes out they were spying on Bernie or some Dems. To see the mental gymnastics would be great.

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I think its naive to think they didn't. Especially Bernie. He was a real threat.

Hhmm.

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While requesting the unmasking of Flynn itself isn't a crime if you have the proper security clearance, the unmasking of American citizens for political purposes is illegal, so the leaking of Flynn's name to the media was indeed a criminal act.

There were dozens of Obama officials who made unmasking requests after the call took place who could be responsible for the leak. The question that remains is "Who is responsible for leaking it?"
Based on the information we have, I think the leaker is one of two people:

Denis McDonough, Obama's Chief of Staff

One interesting name on the list is Barack Obama's Chief of Staff Denis McDonough. What makes his request perhaps the most interesting is that he made his request on January 5, 2017the same day as the pivotal Oval Office meeting where Obama discussed the Flynn wiretapping with James Comey, Sally Yates, Joe Biden, and Susan Rice.

The phone call that resulted in charges being filed against Flynn, where he discussed Russian sanctions with Kislyak, took place on December 29, 2016. McDonough's unmasking request is the first one made after that phone call took place.

Does this mean that Denis McDonough is the leaker? Not necessarily. But, the connection to that Oval Office briefing is hard to ignore. If McDonough was the leaker, the question we need to get answered is did he do so at the direction of Barack Obama?

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And the money shot:

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Former Vice President Joe Biden

Joe Biden being on the list declassified by Acting DNI Grenell was one of the more shocking revelations. In the middle of a presidential campaign where Biden is the presumptive Democratic nominee, the revelation didn't help Biden any.

The day before the list was released, Biden originally denied having any knowledge of the FBI investigation of Flynn in an interview, before awkwardly admitting to it moments later. Apparently he'd forgotten he'd been a part of that Oval Office before making a guilty-sounding denial.

What else is Biden hiding? His original denial of having any knowledge of the investigation, especially in light of the news that Biden requested the unmasking of Flynn's identity just made him sound guilty.

"This is a smoking gun if there ever was one, that Vice President Biden was using the power of government, abusing that power, to go after a political opponent." Senator Rand Paul said Wednesday afternoon on Fox News. But Biden's name on the list wasn't the whole story.

Biden's single request was made on January 12, 2017, a week after the January 5, 2017, Oval Office meeting where Obama discussed the Flynn wiretaps with then-FBI Director James Comey, then-Deputy Attorney General Sally Yates, then-Vice President Joe Biden, and then-national security advisor Susan Rice.

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Does it mean that Biden is responsible for the leak? Not necessarily. Biden certainly had plenty of motive to do it, and this is quite a coincidence that has many people wondering if Biden is connected to the leak. If that were the case, the implications on the 2020 election would be huge.

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LINK

Thoughts?

I'll stick with Sidney Powell who felt that James Baker of ONA leaked the Flynn transcripts to David Ignatius of the WaPo.

drcrinum said:

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I'll stick with Sidney Powell who felt that James Baker of ONA leaked the Flynn transcripts to David Ignatius of the WaPo.

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Baker at Office of Net Assessment at DOD? I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder.

I tend to believe it's McDonough, per the order of Obama--taking one for the team, However, we'll find out. so I'm not as gung ho about this speculation. When it comes to the Obama types of the world, they're always motivated to ask others to take the fall, and so many are willing to do so for the "cause", because the other team is evil. If it is Biden, he would be the only one who would have done it due to ignorance, or "everyone else is getting away with stuff, I'm sure I can too". The "elementary playground" reply.

I will say it's nice for you to ask for "thoughts", since 90% of us on this thread regularly defer to you and other attorneys for interpretations. It's nice to feel wanted!! The last two sentences are attempts at humor.

First we need a definitive answer on whether the Kislyak call was incidental collection, which means there will be an unmasking request. If they got it through a targeted means, there won't be an unmasking request, right?

FbgTxAg said:

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Two more weeks.

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Hey, as long as we've been following this--and coming from Adam Housley no less--this is basically Christmas Eve! No need to be a gloomy Gus. These past couple weeks have given me all the optimism I was never quite able to maintain for the preceding three years.

I have a good feeling there's going to be a run on crow next as people start coming around.

For my part, I promise to enjoy my schadenfreude regularly and responsibly.

VegasAg86 said:

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First we need a definitive answer on whether the Kislyak call was incidental collection, which means there will be an unmasking request. If they got it through a targeted means, there won't be an unmasking request, right?

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Apparently there was no unmasking request that was made after to call but before it was an active topic of discussion in the Oval Office. So however the White House knew about the parties and the content of the call, it was not through an unmasking request.

ETA: To clarify as the Andy McCarthy article I posted earlier today speculates it was the CIA who intercepted the call because Flynn was out of the country and likely Kislyak was in Moscow.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1260741832390201347.html?refreshed=1589655426

More on the 'expulsions' versus 'Sanctions' in the Flynn saga....they are 2 different issues. 'Sanctions' doesn't appear in the 302, but it does throughout the Statement of Offense. Flynn said he talked about 'expulsions' but not about 'Sanctions' during the FBI interview. What if the word 'Sanctions' never appears in the transcript? Is that why it is being hid?