Isn't one of the claims than the prosecutor attributed the wrong names to the 302's and that actually happened. Is this a common mistake?

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

So Trump should pardon him immediately, correct? It's clear it's been a rail road job from the beginning.

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

Clinton appointee.

As a neophyte lawyer now, after reading this thread, so many comments have always come back to he original plea of guilt.

I'm sure it falls under bad things happening to good people.

So, basically, never make a deal to plead guilty with the DOJ because even if they do a ton of sketchy crap to bully you into it, you are stuck with it. Great lesson for those who might seek to cooperate in the future

Sullivan seems to be willing to risk some egg on his face in the even some of those involved in the Flynn investigation get recommended for consequences by Durham.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

So, basically, never make a deal to plead guilty with the DOJ because even if they do a ton of sketchy crap to bully you into it, you are stuck with it. Great lesson for those who might seek to cooperate in the future.

---

He's not stuck with it. He's been asked many times if he wanted to withdraw it.

Declass now.

WOW! Surprised Sullivan went that far. That's wholesale repudiation of everything Sidney has argued and wholesale buy-in to Van Grack's characterization of the evidence as non-existent.

Flynn can't retract his guilt plea now.

That is a good point. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

Sasappis said:

---

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

I just don't see it. As scummy as the behavior of the feds has been in this whole thing, Flynn still lied and nothing has changed that fact.

The feds absolutely used aggressive threats and tactics to get him to plead guilty and cooperate, but that part is typical SOP. They used the threats of indicting his family to get him to take a low level conviction that they easily could get. Once he did that, they owned him.

---

Agreed, which is why I'll support anything from commuting the sentence to a full pardon.


At the end of the day, an FBI 302 said he lied. Maybe he forgot, maybe he was trying to protect Trump, but the time, effort, and bull**** the government has put him through is dumb.

FWIW, all the versions of the 302 that might exist have not been confirmed to have been been produced. The court is taking the word of a notoriously unscrupulous prosecutor that there is no reason to suspect there is anything that helps the defense in other versions that might exist.

Sasappis said:

---

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

I just don't see it. As scummy as the behavior of the feds has been in this whole thing, Flynn still lied and nothing has changed that fact.

The feds absolutely used aggressive threats and tactics to get him to plead guilty and cooperate, but that part is typical SOP. They used the threats of indicting his family to get him to take a low level conviction that they easily could get. Once he did that, they owned him.

---

What do you think of the suggestion that the Feds both created the Conflict of Interest with Flynn's first lawyers and took advantage of that conflict? I'm troubled by that, but don't have the criminal chops to strongly opine on that issue.

MouthBQ98 said:

---

FWIW, all the versions of the 302 that might exist have not been confirmed to have been been produced. The court is taking the word of a notoriously unscrupulous prosecutor that there is no reason to suspect there is anything that helps the defense in other versions that might exist.

---

Not only that but it shocked me that Sullivan ruled that there was nothing exculpatory in the actual transcripts of the calls between Flynn and Kislyak and Flynn can't see them as a result. That's just weird as hell to me.

Quote:

---

What do you think of the suggestion that the Feds both created the Conflict of Interest with Flynn's first lawyers and took advantage of that conflict? I'm troubled by that, but don't have the criminal chops to strongly opine on that issue.

---

That has always bothered me since the revelation that Flynn and his company turned over the information to their lawyers for purposes of guidance in what federal laws they needed to file required disclosures and were advise that FARA wasn't one of them. That means there was no intent to violate FARA.

And then when Flynn's partner actually went to trial this past summer, the Burling, Covington lawyers testified on Rafekian's behalf. Although the jury convicted him, the judge threw out the charges.

Talk about an "if only" moment for Flynn. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

Quote:

---

Did flynn ever argue actual innocence? If he admitted he lied how would the transcript be exculpatory?

---

In court? No, I don't believe so. Just seems incredulous to me that his former lawyers didn't demand the transcripts before advising their client to plead guilty.

Wasn't it about a year back when Sullivan made a comment with regards to Flynn being criminal or treasonous or something to that effect? He seems to pretty much have decided the safe play is to take the federal prosecutors at their word. It looks like he has long been decided that Flynn was in fact guilty in simple terms, and had ready pled, and wasn't asking to change, so he was really judging the viability of any additional evidence being likely to change that narrros conclusion, and without sufficient evidence that further exculpatory evidence existed, he was going to take the government at their word. When Flynn didn't change his plea, he probably pretty much assured this ultimate outcome.

Quote:

---

Even if they asked for it what would they have said when the feds said no? You either take the plea deal or not. He would have gotten the transcript if he went to trial but would also have been charged with all of the other threatened charges.

---

And the other threatened charges included the FARA charge that would have incriminated his lawyers since they were the ones that advised he didn't have to file under FARA. (And by "incriminated" I mean a malpractice suit.)

I also still have to wonder if the whole Dutch company with Turkish government ties was a set-up. What came first? The investigation of Flynn (August 2016)? Or the Turkish deal? Also August 2016?

The stink is still there, And still solely on the Dems.

https://www.oann.com/oaninvestigates/

Links to all 3 OANN specials on Giuliani & the Ukraine.

Watch #3 if you haven't watched anything.
The US State Department & Soros control NABU, the anti-corruption organization under scrutiny in Ukraine.

She's hot, that's all I got.

I wonder where shes from.

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

This board lost their collective **** when Judge Sullivan put in his own Brady order, and people thought Flynn was going to be a free man. Flynn is now looking at not walking out the same door of the courthouse he walked in, and Powell is staring down an ethics complaint.

HTownAg98 said:

---

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

This board lost their collective **** when Judge Sullivan put in his own Brady order, and people thought Flynn was going to be a free man. Flynn is now looking at not walking out the same door of the courthouse he walked in, and Powell is staring down an ethics complaint.

---

Laugh it up. It's like watching a t-sip game party in the first quarter.

HTownAg98 said:

---

ruddyduck said:

---

serious question...what is sullivan's deal? seemed determined from the beginning to side with the government.

---

This board lost their collective **** when Judge Sullivan put in his own Brady order, and people thought Flynn was going to be a free man. Flynn is now looking at not walking out the same door of the courthouse he walked in, and Powell is staring down an ethics complaint.

---

I had a feeling he wasn't going to be allowed to go w/o some accountability, it just sucks that Van Grack won this one, even though Flynn had several opportunities to recant his plea.

You kind of sound like you're happy with the outcome, but I don't think you are. Most here are just really, really, tired of a $4 trillion government over running citizens who were very likely innocent.

Candidly, ANYONE who was on the Mueller panel likely isn't a person you'd like to be involved in your government, but they're perfect for government---any government that appreciates leading their voters down the path of slow destruction.

So yeah I knew it could happen, I just don't like it. As far as Powell goes, she's a big girl, I'm not worried about her.

I take no joy in Flynn's upcoming sentence. I just saw the writing on the wall a long time ago and knew he was screwed. Powell tried a case on the court of public opinion, which is a good strategy if you're going for a pardon. If I were Flynn, I'd make damn sure that pardon was coming, because he was likely only getting probation before he filed his "The FBI is being mean to me" motion with his prior attorneys. He may have still gotten probation after that. But Powell has made sure he's going to get some jail time. Flynn's only hope to avoiding prison is that Judge Sullivan realizes this is all Powell's doing and doesn't take it out on him. I wouldn't bet on that, and I feel bad for Flynn.

Can you tell me if what the prosecutor did was normal? I know you said it wouldn't change things but are huge "mistakes" like that normal and just part of being a lawyer?

backintexas2013 said:

---

Can you tell me if what the prosecutor did was normal? I know you said it wouldn't change things but are huge "mistakes" like that normal and just part of being a lawyer?

---

What the prosecutor did wasn't normal. The problem is that the bar to prove misconduct by the government is so damn high it's almost not worth trying.