Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts

7,512,421 Views | 49272 Replies | Last: 6 days ago by will25u
VegasAg86
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aggiehawg said:

VegasAg86 said:

Sarge 91 said:

will25u said:

Is this just something alleged, or is it provable?
It is just alleged in a Federal Complaint. Not sworn evidence.
True, but that seems like too specific of an allegation to have been made up out of thin air. I would think they at least have a person making the claim that is what happened. It's huge if they can prove it.
It's Butowsky's version of events as to how he became involved with the Rich family and why.
So they do have someone making the claim. Paradigm shift if they can prove it.
Secolobo
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Can I go to sleep Looch?
CT75
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VegasAg86 said:

aggiehawg said:

VegasAg86 said:

Sarge 91 said:

will25u said:

Is this just something alleged, or is it provable?
It is just alleged in a Federal Complaint. Not sworn evidence.
True, but that seems like too specific of an allegation to have been made up out of thin air. I would think they at least have a person making the claim that is what happened. It's huge if they can prove it.
It's Butowsky's version of events as to how he became involved with the Rich family and why.
So they do have someone making the claim. Paradigm shift if they can prove it.
Seems to me even if they had video of the murder...it still wouldn't likely prove motive (assuming they used a hit man and by now have eliminated the hit man). Jack Ruby comes to mind.
Rapier108
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CT75 said:

VegasAg86 said:

aggiehawg said:

VegasAg86 said:

Sarge 91 said:

will25u said:

Is this just something alleged, or is it provable?
It is just alleged in a Federal Complaint. Not sworn evidence.
True, but that seems like too specific of an allegation to have been made up out of thin air. I would think they at least have a person making the claim that is what happened. It's huge if they can prove it.
It's Butowsky's version of events as to how he became involved with the Rich family and why.
So they do have someone making the claim. Paradigm shift if they can prove it.
Seems to me even if they had video of the murder...it still wouldn't likely prove motive (assuming they used a hit man and by now have eliminated the hit man). Jack Ruby comes to mind.
First rule of assassination, kill the assassins.
VegasAg86
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CT75 said:

VegasAg86 said:

So they do have someone making the claim. Paradigm shift if they can prove it.
Seems to me even if they had video of the murder...it still wouldn't likely prove motive (assuming they used a hit man and by now have eliminated the hit man). Jack Ruby comes to mind.
I'm not talking about whether it's a hit. I'm talking about the Russian hacking being a myth and McCabe suppressing the evidence they knew it was Rich*.

Edit : *if true
MouthBQ98
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Yes, the leak could be entirely independent of the death. The internal leak theory at least seems to have a potential witness or two to it now. Will they go on record?
fullback44
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So the Mueller team knew all along it wasn't Russians that it was Seth Rich and his brother who released the DNC emails to Wikileaks...


( for the Q followers... Q said this was the case over a year ago!)
VegasAg86
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fullback44 said:


So the Mueller team knew all along it wasn't Russians that it was Seth Rich and his brother who released the DNC emails to Wikileaks...


( for the Q followers... Q said this was the case over a year ago!)
It would be awesome if we had a free press that wanted to get to the bottom of this. I think we'd know whether this is true rather quickly. Sad that they'd rather follow their agendas than the evidence.
Agnzona
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Where is the next Woodward & Bernstein, the Hollywood movie, or best selling book? It almost takes a conspiracy to believe how locked down and not the least bit curious the media is.
"Fort Worth where the West begins...and Dallas is where the East peters out!"
VegasAg86
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Agnzona said:

Where is the next Woodward & Bernstein, the Hollywood movie, or best selling book? It almost takes a conspiracy to believe how locked down and not the least bit curious the media is.
That was all about taking down a Republican president. They have no interest in sullying the name of Obama. Switch the D's and the R's and they'd be all over it.
K188Ag
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Agnzona said:

Where is the next Woodward & Bernstein, the Hollywood movie, or best selling book? It almost takes a conspiracy to believe how locked down and not the least bit curious the media is.
Carter and Solomon are the new Woodward & Bernstein.
fasthorse05
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I don't know how reliable Butowsky could be.

He is a t-sip, afterall.
Agnzona
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VegasAg86 said:

Agnzona said:

Where is the next Woodward & Bernstein, the Hollywood movie, or best selling book? It almost takes a conspiracy to believe how locked down and not the least bit curious the media is.
That was all about taking down a Republican president. They have no interest in sullying the name of Obama. Switch the D's and the R's and they'd be all over it.


If it was reversed no doubt there would already be 2 or more Academy nominated movies already out with more in work.
"Fort Worth where the West begins...and Dallas is where the East peters out!"
IDAGG
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fullback44 said:


So the Mueller team knew all along it wasn't Russians that it was Seth Rich and his brother who released the DNC emails to Wikileaks...


( for the Q followers... Q said this was the case over a year ago!)
That is the allegation in a lawsuit. Not an established fact.
benchmark
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aggiehawg said:

It's Butowsky's version of events as to how he became involved with the Rich family and why.
I'm not there yet on Seth Rich ... no hard evidence.

Similarly, I'm also not there yet on the Russians hacking the DNC ... for exactly the same reason ... no hard evidence.
aggiehawg
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benchmark said:

aggiehawg said:

It's Butowsky's version of events as to how he became involved with the Rich family and why.
I'm not there yet on Seth Rich ... no hard evidence.

Similarly, I'm also not there yet on the Russians hacking the DNC ... for exactly the same reason ... no hard evidence.
Read this Solomon article.

Quote:

But the Democratic Party committee that helps elects candidates to U.S. House seats has exposed scores of its own opposition research files on GOP candidates, past and present, on the internet. They just aren't easy to find.

Those Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) files aren't on web addresses tied to its official domain, https://dccc.org/.

Instead, the research files appear under such arcane URLs as http://2vmhfw1isbe32j3tgn3epw3x-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/. To find these jewels, someone would have to know that cryptic address, or be willing to scroll through multiple screens of a Google search before it showed up.

Why is this the case?

The DCCC insists it isn't another hack, nor was it an accidental publishing of secret files that it didn't make a security mistake. Instead, a senior DCCC official told me it was "an intentional publishing of materials that aren't being publicized right now."
Say what?

Quote:

In other words, the DCCC posted some of its most valuable opposition research in a way that isn't exactly accessible unless you know where to look.

"Sometimes we publish research and polling so it can be helpful," the official explained.

To Democratic candidates? I asked.

"Yes," but then the official immediately clarified: "We take our obligation to avoid improper coordination very seriously."

All this might sound like political gobbledygook to the average reader.

But actually it provides a window into how political parties craftily perform an end run around federal campaign laws that limit how much parties can contribute to support candidates directly. Those laws also outlaw coordination between candidates and their supporters.
Quote:

In other words, the DCCC or any other party's committees, for that matter could run afoul of federal campaign limits and coordination bans if it privately gave its expensive opposition research directly to candidates.

So the DCCC and some of its GOP counterparts have invented a workaround.

They publish opposition research reports they think can help their candidates on obscure web addresses, where their candidates can download them and most voters and Republican rivals are unlikely to see them.
LINK

As to the DCCC hack, it seems more likely that it could be an inside job, to me.
benchmark
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aggiehawg said:

As to the DCCC hack, it seems more likely that it could be an inside job, to me.
Yep. And just like Roswell and the grassy knoll ... someone will be find bombshell breaking news every year for the next 50 yrs.
drcrinum
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https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/453384-fbis-spreadsheet-puts-a-stake-through-the-heart-of-steeles-dossier

Quote:

.....But lest anyone be tempted to think Steele's 2016 dossier is about to be mysteriously revived as credible, consider this: Over months of work, FBI agents painstakingly researched every claim Steele made about Trump's possible collusion with Russia, and assembled their findings into a spreadsheet-like document.
The over-under isn't flattering to Steele.

Multiple sources familiar with the FBI spreadsheet tell me the vast majority of Steele's claims were deemed to be wrong, or could not be corroborated even with the most awesome tools available to the U.S. intelligence community. One source estimated the spreadsheet found upwards of 90 percent of the dossier's claims to be either wrong, non-verifiable or open-source intelligence found with a Google search.

In other words, it was mostly useless.

"The spreadsheet was a sea of blanks, meaning most claims couldn't be corroborated, and those things that were found in classified intelligence suggested Steele's intelligence was partly or totally inaccurate on several claims," one source told me.

The FBI declined comment when asked about the spreadsheet......

Useless!
will25u
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drcrinum said:

Useless!
I've lost count of all the useless 'gotcha' accusations ... has anyone kept a list?
drcrinum
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MooreTrucker
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benchmark said:

drcrinum said:

Useless!
I've lost count of all the useless 'gotcha' accusations ... has anyone kept a list?
Maybe you should start a spreadsheet.
EKUAg
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will25u said:




Just read from Brian Cates one of the lawyers hired by Flynn's team to help on cooperation of the Main case is also a witness for the prosecution in that case? How can that be ethical?
aggiehawg
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Quote:

Just read from Brian Cates one of the lawyers hired by Flynn's team to help on cooperation of the Main case is also a witness for the prosecution in that case? How can that be ethical?
It isn't ethical but the reason the judge is allowing it isn't too hard to figure out. The judge has also ordered Senior Ethics officials to attend. Kelner and his firm Covington, Burling are in a heap o' trouble.

Covington, Burling was also corporate counsel for Flynn Intelligence Group (FIG) at the time of the negotiation and finalization of the deal with a Dutch company, Innovo. Having so-called specialists in lobbying and disclosure laws on staff, Flynn and his partner, Rafekian (Kian) directed the lawyers to advise them on which disclosures to the federal government were required of them and then to prepare the necessary papers.

That goes to intent. FIG and its principals were trying to comply with the applicable law and relied on Covington, Burling to guide them.

Only Covington, Burling recommended FIG need only file disclosures under another law, not FARA. FIG complied. That filing gets flagged pretty damn quick. (Unconfirmed at present but most likely because there was a Title I FISA on Flynn or at a minimum someone doing 702 queries on his every communication.)

At this point the games begin. Flynn is already winding down and dismantling FIG in preparation for his joining the incoming Trump administration. To say this issue was a minor paperwork for a defunct entity and not the highest priority would be an understatement. But one he trusted his counsel to take appropriate action to close the matter.

Now Covington, Burling is in a box. The head of DOJ/Nat Sec Division, David Laufmann is gunning for Flynn claiming his failure to file under FARA was an intentional crime. FIG's lawyers know that isn't true and it is their fault. They try to finesse that point without outright saying they committed malpractice and scramble to assemble more evidence that there was no need for FIG to file under FARA. They do that by talking to Kian and then Alpetkin, the owner of Inovo BV. Based on the information the lawyers are being told (according to them) didn't back-up Laufmann's assertions that Inovo was a front for the Turkish government. (Again, neither Flynn nor his lawyers know what Laufmann knows by virtue of the surveillance.)

Laufmann continues to push them hard to file under FARA. Flynn really isn't that focused on it as e has other duties to attend to and again trusts them to take appropriate action to handle it. Covington, Burlng prepares the filing to reflect what they have been told by Kian and Alpetkin. Flynn doesn't read it just signs it. And the feds pounce for filing a false FARA.

Here's where Covington, Burling made their biggest mistake, they still represented Flynn individually in the criminal case. They should have referred him to another criminal attorney. By encouraging Flynn to take plea deal, their asses would be covered. But then Mueller threw them a curve ball as he was exiting the door and indicted Kian and Alpetkin last December for false statements related to the FARA filing.

All of the weirdness with the Flynn sentencing hearings before Judge Sullivan has been kind of a kabuki danc between the defense and Team Mueller for basically CYA on both sides with Flynn caught in the middle.

Sorry about the length but it is a complicated, labyrinthine mess where everybody except Flynn had conflicts of interests.
K188Ag
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Excellent explanation, Hawg. I appreciate it.
will25u
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So essentially, Flynn was relying on his attorneys to know what to file and when. So shouldn't they be on the hook and not Flynn for having him do the wrong thing? They are supposed to be the SME on the filings. Flynn is not.
aggiehawg
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will25u said:

So essentially, Flynn was relying on his attorneys to know what to file and when. So shouldn't they be on the hook and not Flynn for having him do the wrong thing? They are supposed to be the SME on the filings. Flynn is not.
Again, it goes to intent. Whether the false filing was done intentionally and knowingly. Flynn's directions to his attorneys to prepare whatever filings were required is evidence he had no intent to file a false statement.

About the only saving grace Covington, Burling has going for them is if Alpetkin and Kian lied to them when they were preparing the filings. (Seems likely they were.)

David Lauffmann's actions as DOJ/Nat Sec at the time of the false FARA filing are attributable to Team Mueller since they were both government employees. The role Laufmann played in ordering the filing knowing the lawyers (and Flynn) were in the dark (possible entrapment?) is also problematical for the prosecution.
Secolobo
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Can I go to sleep Looch?
RyanAg08
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Secolobo said:





I was looking for a way to describe those types of conferences. "Hot air" is pretty good.
EKUAg
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Thanks.
fasthorse05
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Reading your replys on Covington, Burlington, I wondered how, or where, culpability lies with partnerships, versus corporations and LLC's?

It's a sidebar question, but Flynn's attorneys are responsible, as is their firm in some degree. But, if Flynn chooses to suit that firm, who receives the brunt?

That make sense?
Sarge 91
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fasthorses05 said:

Reading your replys on Covington, Burlington, I wondered how, or where, culpability lies with partnerships, versus corporations and LLC's?

It's a sidebar question, but Flynn's attorneys are responsible, as is their firm in some degree. But, if Flynn chooses to suit that firm, who receives the brunt.
Hawg may know more, but my understanding is sanctions imposed by the Court can be applied to the client, the law firm, and/or the individual lawyers. The lawyers could lose their license to practice in that District. Plus, ethics violations would result in the initiation of a proceeding before the state bar, which may result in monetary sanctions (law firm and lawyer), plus probation or loss of license to practice law (lawyer).

Civil lawsuit by Flynn would be against the law firm and the individual lawyers.
aggiehawg
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What Sarge said.
akm91
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MooreTrucker said:

benchmark said:

drcrinum said:

Useless!
I've lost count of all the useless 'gotcha' accusations ... has anyone kept a list?
Maybe you should start a spreadsheet.
Speaking of, haven't seen SpreadsheetAg around lately.
"And liberals, being liberals, will double down on failure." - dedgod
MouthBQ98
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3 kids and a recent move. He's a busy guy.
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