etcetera said:

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So there wasn't a formal hearing on the Page application, but there certainly had to be a paper trail consisting of the written analysis by a FISC attorney on the submitted FISA application, plus records of any telephone conversations and requests for additional information by the attorney or judge. The latter should be made reviewable to Horowitz or DOJ investigative officials or Congressional Committees.

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Agree, except for the part about letting certain members of Congress see some of it. The leaks from Congress are a sure-fire way to discourage foreign-based persons from putting themselves at risk of torture and death by being HUMINT sources for the FBI and CIA.

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There is no way Cater Page's FISA application passes the smell test.

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Here's a twitter thread by ex-FBI attny/agent Rangappa which clears up some misconceptions about that.

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Rangappa is a CNN analyst, and NO, she doesn't clear anything up...she misleads. Page has been after her on Twitter; today alone:

Carter Page is a US citizen. The FBI/DOJ needed to show that he was likely an agent of a foreign power. They didn't! They hid from the FISC that he was an FBI asset that had been used only months previously to ensnare a Russian spy plot (Buryakov case) within the US, plus the fact that he had worked for the CIA in the past and had received an award for it. They misled the FISC and only presented unverified opposition research -- the dossier -- to show that he was likely an agent of Russia.
When the FISA on Page was approved, he was no longer affiliated with the Trump Campaign. During all of Page's testimony, he has never had legal representation. Page knew before the FISA warrant was approved that something was wrong -- he wrote an email/letter to Comey in September 2016 inquiring why he was being singled out and that a foreign person had written he had had engaged in activities in Russia he hadn't.

Rangappa was rather dismissive of Trump's tweet last spring about Obama wiretapping Trump tower. She claimed it's very difficult to get FISA warrants.

https://www.justsecurity.org/38422/aint-easy-fisa-warrant-fbi-agent/

etcetera said:

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They misled the FISC and only presented unverified opposition research -- the dossier -- to show that he was likely an agent of Russia.

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Unless you have read the four FISA applications including the 180+ pages of redacted information, how do you know what is in them?

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I am relying on the Nunes Memo:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/read-the-full-text-of-the-nunes-memo/552191/

Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Can I get a synopsis please? Also, this would have been nice to listen to during the great texags outage of 2018.

So when's Mueller gonna wrap this up? 2024?

Prosperdick said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Can I get a synopsis please? Also, this would have been nice to listen to during the great texags outage of 2018.

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She interviews two whistle blowers on the record, ID'd and verified. These were two NSA guys that were on the Mike Rogers team that were in the direct loop when the Trump tower wiretap was discovered. They are first hand sources not third or fourth and not anonymous sources. They name some names and give initials of others that are not to be disclosed yet, because they are being not identified by request of the investigators but will be soon when the report comes out. A key person named C. S. was a plant of Obama in Trumps IT dept. Lots of info.

Gigem314 said:

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So when's Mueller gonna wrap this up? 2024?

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Evidently sooner than you think, just saw it announced he will accept written answers to written questions from POTUS.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Prosperdick said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Can I get a synopsis please? Also, this would have been nice to listen to during the great texags outage of 2018.

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She interviews two whistle blowers on the record, ID'd and verified. These were two NSA guys that were on the Mike Rogers team that were in the direct loop when the Trump tower wiretap was discovered. They are first hand sources not third or fourth and not anonymous sources. They name some names and give initials of others that are not to be disclosed yet, because they are being not identified by request of the instigators but will be soon when the report comes out. A key person named C. S. was a plant of Obama in Trumps IT dept. Lots of info.

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Thanks for the info...

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Gigem314 said:

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So when's Mueller gonna wrap this up? 2024?

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Evidently sooner than you think, list saw it announced he will accept written answers to written questions from POTUS.

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So...2022.

coyote68 said:

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This is is simple. The losing party in the last US Presidential election colluded with our own FBI/DOJ in a conspiracy to unseat an elected POTUS. That is the crime.

Robert Mueller is continuing to participate in the crime.

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Just throwing this against the wall, but could that have been what the meeting between trump and mueller was? Was trump offering an immunity type deal (due to previously known improprieties) If he'd bring them all out of the woodwork?

Weren't you the one referencing it when you got called out?

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Prosperdick said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Can I get a synopsis please? Also, this would have been nice to listen to during the great texags outage of 2018.

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She interviews two whistle blowers on the record, ID'd and verified. These were two NSA guys that were on the Mike Rogers team that were in the direct loop when the Trump tower wiretap was discovered. They are first hand sources not third or fourth and not anonymous sources. They name some names and give initials of others that are not to be disclosed yet, because they are being not identified by request of the instigators but will be soon when the report comes out. A key person named C. S. was a plant of Obama in Trumps IT dept. Lots of info.

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Who was the Russian oligarch briefly mentioned as helping to infiltrate the Trump Campaign? Deripaska?

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Watched the video, thank you.

Repeatedly they mentioned 119 personnel that are speaking out and working together to shed light on what has been happening. I wonder how many are currently working as opposed to have left the alphabet agencies. It sounded like many are still working for the agencies, if so, there seems to be a revolt taking place to expose all the corruption that has occurred. I have become modesty hopefull.

drcrinum said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Prosperdick said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Must see thread

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037013939215892481.html

The long video is worth every minute

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Can I get a synopsis please? Also, this would have been nice to listen to during the great texags outage of 2018.

---

She interviews two whistle blowers on the record, ID'd and verified. These were two NSA guys that were on the Mike Rogers team that were in the direct loop when the Trump tower wiretap was discovered. They are first hand sources not third or fourth and not anonymous sources. They name some names and give initials of others that are not to be disclosed yet, because they are being not identified by request of the instigators but will be soon when the report comes out. A key person named C. S. was a plant of Obama in Trumps IT dept. Lots of info.

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Who was the Russian oligarch briefly mentioned as helping to infiltrate the Trump Campaign? Deripaska?

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They didn't name him but he was referred to as a Non-Kremlin Russian Oligarch, they said he will be public soon. You can bet the house that it is Oleg Deripaska. Friday a big dump is coming from these insiders are turning loose. Friday they are going to release and open source website laying all of this out, and accessible to the public.

I think this is going to be the url http://www.reportforthepresident.com/

Couple of key things.

November 1st 2016 7 days before the election Robert Carone told Erik Prince that Stefan Halper, Camilo Sandoval, and a name they couldn't name were internal spies in the campaign. Trump has known this and much more even before the election.

Immediately after the election Clapper makes the first stage changes retroactively to EO 12333. Previously, the NSA would filter information for specific requests, eliminating the identities of innocent people and erasing irrelevant personal data. The rule changes open up the NSA's data mine to all 16 agencies and other contractor intelligence agencies. (**cough cough Fusion GPS)

I have studied the staff of the Trump Campaign and the only staffer in his IT dept with the initials CS is Camilo Sandoval. He's a former Signals intelligence analyst for the NSA,

Obama amended the EO to WIDEN the net of agencies who were able to get their hands on RAW data coming from the apparatus. And we have discussed this very thing 500 pages ago and Robert and Joshua stress that this was done to CYA on the spying they had already done. We effectively referred this to "Bootstrapping" a warrant. Like it or not it's done at all levels of government.

Also Robert Caron, and Joshua Macias and their group of 119 have provided information to the Horowitz and Congressional committees, and they expect to testify shortly. I figure when Horowitz drops the FISA report the committees are going to be full bore, personally could care less, just fire up the Grand Jury, and start indicting those guity. These 119 incluse two Federal Judges and current IC people from various agencies.

In this interview Robert Caron mentions that Michael Hayden was the one that initiated the storage aspect of the NSA gathering so it could be back mined at any time. This makes perfect sense why Michael Hayden has been all in with his constant Trump bashing. Hayden is dirty and in survival mode.

For those still unclear how FISA is supposed to work and how wonky it is, read Andy McCarthy's latest.

I know I'm a broken record on this but FISA was never intended to be used to build criminal cases absent espionage or terrorism. It was designed soley to be used for counter-espionage and counter-terrorism purposes. And even then, such a limited purpose is fraught with peril in the hands of an OOC Executive Branch.

As he points out, 70 years ago, Justice Jackson observed thusly:

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Foreign-intelligence collection is not a case or controversy; it is not a judicial proceeding by nature. Writing for the Supreme Court in Chicago & Southern Air Lines v. Waterman S.S. Corp, Justice Robert Jackson explained that intelligence-gathering was constitutionally committed to the political branches of government because such national-security measures should be designed and policed by the government officials accountable to the people whose lives are at stake. Judges, he added, were not institutionally competent to participate, and it was inappropriate for them "to sit in camera in order to be taken into executive confidences."

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Congress needs to act to reform FISA.

drcrinum said:

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Roscoe, You are a goldmine of information. Thanks.

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Yes he is.

Here's my question, and likely the same one that was asked 500 pages ago, but did the Obama administration basically legalize crushing the 4th amendment? There's not much left of it now, but it seems to me that they just put out a big repeal of one of the Bill of Rights, without notifying the other 350 million Americans.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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These 119 incluse two Federal Judges

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go on....

fasthorses05 said:

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drcrinum said:

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Roscoe, You are a goldmine of information. Thanks.

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Yes he is.

Here's my question, and likely the same one that was asked 500 pages ago, but did the Obama administration basically legalize crushing the 4th amendment? There's not much left of it now, but it seems to me that they just put out a big repeal of one of the Bill of Rights, without notifying the other 350 million Americans.

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Sort of, if their abuses of power are not redressed. And by "redressed" I mean by a massive civil suit by Carter Page and others falsely accused and targeted for violation of their civil rights. Criminal repercussions for those filing false statements to a Federal court and disbarment where warranted. Plus FISA reform that buttresses sanctions for abuse of the process.

One or more of those actions. If their gross abuses of power are allowed to stand unchallenged in any way, then yes, they have "basically legalize[d] crushing the 4th amendment."

My .02.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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VoterTruth.com has been privately registered for several years but never had a site on it according to Internet Archive. ReportForThePresident.com was just registered on August 25th. Currently both are parked at GoDaddy for now. Rumor has it that they go live Friday.j

fasthorses05 said:

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drcrinum said:

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Roscoe, You are a goldmine of information. Thanks.

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Yes he is.

Here's my question, and likely the same one that was asked 500 pages ago, but did the Obama administration basically legalize crushing the 4th amendment? There's not much left of it now, but it seems to me that they just put out a big repeal of one of the Bill of Rights, without notifying the other 350 million Americans.

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It's pretty simple. EO 12333

They have allowed an Executive Order be the tipping point of the most powerful surveillance tool in the arsenal. And with each administration since it was originally put in place, have had the opportunity to tweak it. Obama weaponized it. Gen Michael Hayden began to mass storage of data on everyone, when he pushed Bill Binney out of his system he designed. Hayden under GWB *******ized they system screaming national security, and the Patriot Act was turned on the citizens when needed. Obama took it to the next level and was spying on congress and campaigns and eventually a President Elect.

Congress needs hard legislation to set boundaries that can't be tweaked without at least some committee work involved. But it really needs firm law, and not flexible policy.

This quick links to a great explanation in the middle of the video of EO 12333

blindey said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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These 119 incluse two Federal Judges

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go on....

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Quick link to the statement

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1037357228381097984.html

Speaking of illegal surveillance, this is worth a read concerning Carlin & Yates, plus a few new names that have popped up regarding 702 queries.

Mueller is after Roger Stone...

OMG! I don't hate Jerome Corsi, but like a lot of crap Media Matters, Daily Kos, and American Progress put out, it's either accurate, without the whole story, OR it's a giant conspiracy story.

So, I guess I hate his writing, and never read it.

drcrinum said:

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Mueller is after Roger Stone...

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When you are calling in 55 year old ex madams, not long out of prison, for questioning, the case is pretty weak, then follow up with Corsi?

So help me out here. Declassifying these docs means exactly what?

Big enough that even the MSM will have to address them?

Any effect at all on Trump and the way he's treated or HRC/Obama and how they treat them?

MooreTrucker said:

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So help me out here. Declassifying these docs means exactly what?

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Isn't that like asking how many Egyptian tombs remain undiscovered?

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WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The federal judge overseeing the second trial of Paul Manafort, President Donald Trump's one-time campaign chairman, ruled on Wednesday that a federal investigation of possible collusion between the campaign and Russia cannot be discussed during the trial.

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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-russia-manafort/collusion-probe-off-limits-in-second-manafort-trial-u-s-judge-rules-idUSKCN1LL29G