Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts

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Whens lunch
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AG
Hearing/no hearing...there was some dialogue that eve if the footnote regarding the source of the dossier was vague, it would have been fully supported orally in a hearing.

The no hearing shoots down the argument that even if the footnote was vague, the judge got the rest of the story anyway.
Not when I'm done with it.
Houston Lee
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If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.
RoscoePColtrane
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TurkeyBaconLeg said:

If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.
LOL this is the same bunch that had the White House bugged. Nothing should surprise anyone from here on out.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
coyote68
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RoscoePColtrane said:

TurkeyBaconLeg said:

If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.
LOL this is the same bunch that had the White House bugged. Nothing should surprise anyone from here on out.


All of which really makes me believe that anyone who does not understand the wheels of justice are turning behind the scenes does not comprehend the gravity of the crimes these folks participated in. If all the crimes committed by these revolutionaries are not punished, our Republic will be done.

This is why the disarming of America is so important to these folks. They are a minority and the majority is the most heavily armed population in the world. They may not be smart, but they aren't stup........... On second thought they may be. Do you understand the gravity of their situation. This is not about a Saturday night break in.

These folks are bugging a presidential candidate and then the White House.
coyote68
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TurkeyBaconLeg said:

If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.


Agree. Any DOJ or FBI that had anything to do with seeking a FISA warrant on a Presidential campaign, what the hell are you thinking? Everything has to be in order and correct and double checked unless............ Someone way up the food chain gave the order.
mrad85
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AG
coyote68 said:

TurkeyBaconLeg said:

If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.


Agree. Any DOJ or FBI that had anything to do with seeking a FISA warrant on a Presidential campaign, what the hell are you thinking? Everything has to be in order and correct and double checked unless............ Someone way up the food chain gave the order.

And most likely only a few people knew about it. Rank and file, no way.
bmks270
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AG
Sounds like FISA court is just an illusion. FBI will surveil whoever they want. The process is a facade meant to give it the appearance of legitimacy.
drcrinum
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1036035175044526080.html

Interesting thread. Steele functioned as a lobbyist for Oleg Deripaska.
RoscoePColtrane
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coyote68 said:

RoscoePColtrane said:

TurkeyBaconLeg said:

If you are going to sign a FISA to allow the surveillance of a Presidential campaign you better damn well have a hearing and get that crap right.

That's the problem that most people have about this.
LOL this is the same bunch that had the White House bugged. Nothing should surprise anyone from here on out.


All of which really makes me believe that anyone who does not understand the wheels of justice are turning behind the scenes does not comprehend the gravity of the crimes these folks participated in. If all the crimes committed by these revolutionaries are not punished, our Republic will be done.

This is why the disarming of America is so important to these folks. They are a minority and the majority is the most heavily armed population in the world. They may not be smart, but they aren't stup........... On second thought they may be. Do you understand the gravity of their situation. This is not about a Saturday night break in.

These folks are bugging a presidential candidate and then the White House.
Excellent post

Trump and company are fighting head winds from the entire government machine, coming after them with everything in their arsenal. They are taking on a monster, that refuses to go away quietly. They have pulled back the curtain and they've exposed the ugly truth of the corruption in DC. $$$ has disemboweled the constitution, and the career politicians are fighting for their lives and the future of the biggest con game going. A gathering of carpet baggers that have been making themselves millionaires on tax money for decades and this is blowing up in their faces.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
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RoscoePColtrane
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Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
RoscoePColtrane
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Here is a free copy of the full Papadopoulos Sentencing Memo, submitted by his attorney it's 16 pages long or I would post it, but there are some interesting tidbits in there that are worth noting. The timeline is a little skewed from what we thought we knew.

First I'd heard that Papadopoulos had approached the Trump Campaign first and was turned away, before deciding to join Ben Carson, and then circled back when Carson folded up tent.

This quote here doesn't match what multiple accounts of that meeting have said in the past.

Quote:

On March 31, 2016, he joined Mr. Trump, Senator Jeff Sessions, and other campaign officials for a "National Security Meeting" at the Trump Hotel. George's photograph at this meeting flashed around the world via Twitter. Eager to show his value to the campaign, George announced at the meeting that he had connections that could facilitate a foreign policy meeting between Mr. Trump and Russian President Vladimir Putin. While some in the room rebuffed George's offer, Mr. Trump nodded with approval and deferred to Mr. Sessions who appeared to like the idea and stated that the campaign should look into it.

Sessions said under oath in his testimony that Papadopoulos tried to bring up possible meetings with Russians and Sessions said he cut him off at the ankles, and then there was the email afterward from Papadopoulos to Manafort trying to bring it up again, and it was replied to saying, it's not going to happen, and to drop it. Papadopoulos was persona non grata after that and wasn't invited to attend any more meeting.


This part sounds too scripted to me

Quote:

On the morning of January 27, 2017, as George stepped out of the shower at his mother's home in Chicago, two FBI agents knocked on the door seeking to interview him. The agents asked George to accompany them to their office to answer a "couple questions" regarding "a guy in New York that you might know, that has recently been in the news." George thought the agents wanted to ask him about Russian businessman Sergei Millian. Wanting clarification, he asked the agents, "just so I understand, I'm going there to answer questions about this person who I think you're talking about." The agents assured George that the topic of discussion was Mr. Millian who had been trending in the national media.

En route to the FBI office, George voiced concern about the repercussions of his cooperation ever becoming public because the Wall Street Journal had just reported that Sergei Millian was a key source in the "Trump Dossier" controversy. George explained that he was in discussions with senior Trump administration officials about a position and the last thing he wanted was "something like this" casting the administration in a bad light. The agents assured him that his cooperation would remain confidential. George let the agents know that he wanted to help so that he could move on and serve his country. Seemingly as promised, the agents began their questioning about George's relationship with Sergei Millian. George knew Mr. Millian only as a businessman pitching an opportunity to George in his personal capacity. The agents asked how they first met, what they discussed, how often they talked or met in person, if George knew whether Mr. Millian was connected to Russia or a foreign intelligence service, and who else on Mr. Trump's campaign may have been in contact with Mr. Millian. George answered their questions honestly.
Personally something smells in this document, can't put my finger on it, but it hints at Papadopoulos being more than just some knucklehead that was trapped, it hints that he was a knowing active participant of the left.

Quote:

Less than twenty minutes into the interview, the agents dropped the Millian inquiry and turned to recent news about Russian influence in the presidential election. George told the agents he had no knowledge of anyone on the campaign colluding with the Russians and it would not have been in anyone's interest to undermine the democratic process. George was surprised to be answering questions about Russian interference in the election and told the agents the topic caught him off guard.

The FBI agent confirmed that the Sergei Millian inquiry was just a ruse to get him in a room when he told George that:
Quote:

the reason we wanted to pull you in today and have that conversation
because we wanted to know to the extent of your knowledge being an
insider inside that small group of people that were policy advisors who,
if anybody, has that connection with Russia and what, what sort of
connections there were.
For the next two hours, George answered questions about Professor Mifsud, Olga, Carter Page, Sergei Millian and the "Trump Dossier," and George's interactions with other people working on the campaign. The agents asked George if he would be willing to actively cooperate and contact various people they had discussed. While George did not think he would be able to get information from those individuals, he stated his willingness to try. He told the agents he was unaware of anyone in the campaign knowing of the stolen Hillary Clinton emails prior to the emails being publicly released.

Further, George told the agents he had no knowledge of meetings between Russian government officials and people working on the campaign. Moreover, at the time investigators interviewed Professor Mifsud they were unaware of George's false statements, and George was still a cooperating source in their investigation. It seems improbable that the investigators would have challenged Professor Mifsud with George's statements for fear of revealing their source.

Additionally, if Professor Mifsud denied telling George about the stolen emails, it is unlikely he would have said something different if the agents confronted him with additional information.
I thought Mifsud did deny saying anything about emails. He clarified that he only said dirt, nothing about emails.

It's talked about here by Andrew McCarthy

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/06/george-papadopoulos-case-needs-closer-look/



Link to the filing

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.189898/gov.uscourts.dcd.189898.45.0.pdf
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
RoscoePColtrane
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Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
cr
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I'm reading this morning where there were no FISA hearings for the Carter Page warrant. What does that mean exactly? They simply issued the warrant in rubber stamp fashion?
FJB
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Maybe Popadop is a plant?
RoscoePColtrane
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garc said:

I'm reading this morning where there were no FISA hearings for the Carter Page warrant. What does that mean exactly? They simply issued the warrant in rubber stamp fashion?
Means nothing, they don't hold hearings over warrants, any kind of warrants. When an agency seeks a warrant from a judge, they stand on the four corners of the document and those that swore it as true.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
RoscoePColtrane
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Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
cr
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RoscoePColtrane said:

garc said:

I'm reading this morning where there were no FISA hearings for the Carter Page warrant. What does that mean exactly? They simply issued the warrant in rubber stamp fashion?
Means nothing, they don't hold hearings over warrants, any kind of warrants. When an agency seeks a warrant from a judge, they stand on the four corners of the document and those that swore it as true.


We have a serious problem then. If that court is rubber stamping FISA warrants for American citizens as a matter of course , especially for the opposition party candidate and those affiliated with his/her campaign, we have no constitutional protection anymore.

It infuriates me that the swamp in congress is so wide that they refuse to reform the process.
coyote68
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Hmmm.

Wonder if Huber and the good guys have FISA warrants to track Mr. Steele and his American contacts. They actually committed crimes.

drcrinum
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drcrinum
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RoscoePColtrane
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Still haven't found the ICIG report on the China hack of HRC server but stumbling up on other things. Comey knew Clinton passed classified to her closet server in 2015. He also knew it was compromised.



https://vault.fbi.gov/hillary-r.-clinton/Hillary%20R.%20Clinton%20Part%2005%20of%2024/view
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
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RoscoePColtrane
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Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
RoscoePColtrane
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Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
ProgN
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coyote68
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That is an issue . A really big problem for every FBI, DOJ, and Judge involved in the process. There is/was something terribly amiss about this.

Again, this is no simple Saturday night breakin.
RyanAg08
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AG
drcrinum said:





Omg. That is hilarious. It's like out a James Bond movie.
Secolobo
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AG
garc said:

RoscoePColtrane said:

garc said:

I'm reading this morning where there were no FISA hearings for the Carter Page warrant. What does that mean exactly? They simply issued the warrant in rubber stamp fashion?
Means nothing, they don't hold hearings over warrants, any kind of warrants. When an agency seeks a warrant from a judge, they stand on the four corners of the document and those that swore it as true.


We have a serious problem then. If that court is rubber stamping FISA warrants for American citizens as a matter of course , especially for the opposition party candidate and those affiliated with his/her campaign, we have no constitutional protection anymore.

It infuriates me that the swamp in congress is so wide that they refuse to reform the process.
If Roberts is responsible for fisa judges I think we just figured out what obama held over Robert's head during the Obamacare hearings.
Can I go to sleep Looch?
drcrinum
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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1036445734558728192.html

Good read.
HTownAg98
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garc said:

RoscoePColtrane said:

garc said:

I'm reading this morning where there were no FISA hearings for the Carter Page warrant. What does that mean exactly? They simply issued the warrant in rubber stamp fashion?
Means nothing, they don't hold hearings over warrants, any kind of warrants. When an agency seeks a warrant from a judge, they stand on the four corners of the document and those that swore it as true.


We have a serious problem then. If that court is rubber stamping FISA warrants for American citizens as a matter of course , especially for the opposition party candidate and those affiliated with his/her campaign, we have no constitutional protection anymore.

It infuriates me that the swamp in congress is so wide that they refuse to reform the process.

The overriding problem is two-fold. The Republican congresscritters love their tough on crime stance and law and order, and the Democrat congresscritters love their public sector unions.

If you want to see how outlandish the whole system has become, just give this thread a read.
drcrinum
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Comey's Special FBI Assistant during 2016-17, Josh Campbell, is drinking buddies with Matt Tait, former cybersecurity employee at GCHQ (circa 2008-2012) & computer hacking specialist. Tait played a significant role in the investigation into the DNC 'hack', Gruccifer 2.0 & exposing the Russian fingerprints. Below is a very interesting article telling you who is Matt Tait and what he has accomplished. Oh, & by the way, Mueller has interviewed Tait, plus Tait contributes to Lawfare.

https://www.weeklystandard.com/haley-byrd/this-former-british-spy-exposed-the-russian-hackers


captkirk
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RyanAg08 said:

drcrinum said:





Omg. That is hilarious. It's like out a James Bond movie.
If somebody like him says that to you...you get lost
MetoliusAg
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RoscoePColtrane said:




For anyone who wants to understand how FISC works, click on this interesting twitter thread from attny Brad Heath.



Also worth reading is this September 2, 2018 article by David Kris. He was the DOJ's in-house expert on FISA apps and FISC law and procedures.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-fisa-court-really-works
MetoliusAg
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Was just about to post that. Orin Kerr is a very good legal mind and very fair.
drcrinum
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etcetera said:

RoscoePColtrane said:




For anyone who wants to understand how FISC works, click on this interesting twitter thread from attny Brad Heath.



Also worth reading is this September 2, 2018 article by David Kris. He was the DOJ's in-house expert on FISA apps and FISC law and procedures.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-fisa-court-really-works
So there wasn't a formal hearing on the Page application, but there certainly had to be a paper trail consisting of the written analysis by a FISC attorney on the submitted FISA application, plus records of any telephone conversations and requests for additional information by the attorney or judge. The latter should be made reviewable to Horowitz or DOJ investigative officials or Congressional Committees.

There is no way Cater Page's FISA application passes the smell test.
MetoliusAg
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Quote:

So there wasn't a formal hearing on the Page application, but there certainly had to be a paper trail consisting of the written analysis by a FISC attorney on the submitted FISA application, plus records of any telephone conversations and requests for additional information by the attorney or judge. The latter should be made reviewable to Horowitz or DOJ investigative officials or Congressional Committees.
Agree, except for the part about letting certain members of Congress see some of it. The leaks from Congress are a sure-fire way to discourage foreign-based persons from putting themselves at risk of torture and death by being HUMINT sources for the FBI and CIA.
Quote:

There is no way Cater Page's FISA application passes the smell test.
Here's a twitter thread by ex-FBI attny/agent Rangappa which clears up some misconceptions about that.

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