FbgTxAg said:

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SpreadsheetAg said:

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WEISSMAN being kept in the loop on this seems like a big problem for TEAM MUELLER

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Not if the acting attorney general doesn't think so.

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https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/31/politics/dickey-richardson-leave-mueller/index.html

Rudy Giuliani Is Putting Together a 'Counter-Report' to Question Robert Mueller's 'Legitimacy'

aggiehawg said:

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Van Der Zwaan pleaded guilty earlier this year to lying to investigators about his interactions with former Trump campaign leaders Rick Gates and Paul Manafort.

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Guilty or not, federal process crimes based solely on 302's is totally Orwellian. Imagine this country if local PD's had that power.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6119093/Justice-lawyer-told-Russia-Trump-barrel.html

Quote:

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A senior Justice Department lawyer says a former British spy told him at a breakfast meeting two years ago that Russian intelligence believed it had Donald Trump 'over a barrel,' according to multiple people familiar with the encounter.

The lawyer, Bruce Ohr, also says he learned that a Trump campaign aide had met with higher-level Russian officials than the aide had acknowledged, the people said.
The previously unreported details of the July 30, 2016, breakfast with Christopher Steele, which Ohr described to lawmakers this week in a private interview, reveal an exchange of potentially explosive information about Trump between two men the president has relentlessly sought to discredit....

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Now wait a minute. According to Steele, I thought the Russians were colluding with the Trump Campaign to swing the election for Trump....but now in another breath Steele tells Ohr the Russians have Trump over a barrel. I guess I don't understand semantics.

So what is y'alls prediction on where this whole thing ends up? Asking Roscoe, aggiehawg, drcrinum, etc.

Does it end with Mueller being shut down or recommending impeachment or something in between?

Quote:

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Carr said that neither Dickey nor Richardson left the office because of political allegations, the appearance of bias or any other wrongdoing.

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Of course not. Mueller is not concerned with the appearance of bias, actual bias, or any wrongdoing.

Only loosely Mueller related. I just thought this was funny.

4stringAg said:

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So what is y'alls prediction on where this whole thing ends up? Asking Roscoe, aggiehawg, drcrinum, etc.

Does it end with Mueller being shut down or recommending impeachment or something in between?

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I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller et al continued in operation until the 2020 election at a minimum as long as the Repubs remain in control of the House....it could even last beyond 2024. SCs tend to remain ongoing for a long time. Now if Rosenstein were to resign, then the ball game changes. However, it would be a major disaster if Trump were to fire either Mueller or Rosenstein.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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Quote:

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Carr said that neither Dickey nor Richardson left the office because of political allegations, the appearance of bias or any other wrongdoing.

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Of course not. Mueller is not concerned with the appearance of bias, actual bias, or any wrongdoing.

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He probably should be. That's Trump's trump card.

Get it? Trump card?

drcrinum said:

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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6119093/Justice-lawyer-told-Russia-Trump-barrel.html

Quote:

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A senior Justice Department lawyer says a former British spy told him at a breakfast meeting two years ago that Russian intelligence believed it had Donald Trump 'over a barrel,' according to multiple people familiar with the encounter.

The lawyer, Bruce Ohr, also says he learned that a Trump campaign aide had met with higher-level Russian officials than the aide had acknowledged, the people said.
The previously unreported details of the July 30, 2016, breakfast with Christopher Steele, which Ohr described to lawmakers this week in a private interview, reveal an exchange of potentially explosive information about Trump between two men the president has relentlessly sought to discredit....

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Now wait a minute. According to Steele, I thought the Russians were colluding with the Trump Campaign to swing the election for Trump....but now in another breath Steele tells Ohr the Russians have Trump over a barrel. I guess I don't understand semantics.

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The narrative goes like this: Russians have the pee-pee showers on tape so they can blackmail him and that's why they prefer he would be President.

There's more to learn about why Bruce Ohr was feeding info from Steele to Weissmann. I wonder if Weissmann is under investigation for leaking to the media? Was Weissmann a member of the 'secret society' in the FBI/DOJ?

https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-justice-department-discloses-no-fisa-court-hearings-held-on-carter-page-warrants/

Quote:

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Judicial Watch: Justice Department Discloses No FISA Court Hearings Held on Carter Page Warrants

Judicial Watch today announced that in response to a Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit, the Justice Department (DOJ) admitted in a court filing last night that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held no hearings on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) spy warrant applications targeting Carter Page, a former Trump campaign part-time advisor who was the subject of four controversial FISA warrants.

In the filing the Justice Department finally revealed that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court held no hearings on the Page FISA spy warrants, first issued in 2016 and subsequently renewed three times:
[National Security Division] FOIA consulted [Office of Intelligence] to identify and locate records responsive to [Judicial Watch's] FOIA request. [Office of Intelligence] determined that there were no records, electronic or paper, responsive to [Judicial Watch's] FOIA request with regard to Carter Page. [Office of Intelligence] further confirmed that the [Foreign Surveillance Court] considered the Page warrant applications based upon written submissions and did not hold any hearings.

The Department of Justice previously released to Judicial Watch the heavily redacted Page warrant applications. The initial Page FISA warrant was granted just weeks before the 2016 election.

The DOJ filing is in response to a Judicial Watch lawsuit for the FISA transcripts (Judicial Watch v. U.S. Department of Justice (No. 1:18-cv-01050))....

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No hearings, just paperwork submissions to the FISC regarding Carter Page's warrant application and subsequent renewals. Rubber stamped. Methinks Rosemary Collyer has just been slammed.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2018/08/breaking-judicial-watch-bombshell-fisa-court-held-no-hearings-on-carter-page-warrants/



First 11 minutes well worth watching.

4stringAg said:

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So what is y'alls prediction on where this whole thing ends up? Asking Roscoe, aggiehawg, drcrinum, etc.

Does it end with Mueller being shut down or recommending impeachment or something in between?

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I know you want someone with legal and investigative knowedge, but I have a lot of human behavior knowledge (economics). I've vacillated on several people with whom I've tried to determine Black/White hat status. Mueller/Rosenstein etc. I never thought I'd have to put Sessions/Huber in that category.

They're both Black hats due to incompetence. Of course, it's still possible I'm incorrect, but ALL available information of their actions suggest incompetence. As a result, and to possibly answer your question, Mueller will finish the investigation and recommend impeachment, although it will have nothing to do with Russian collusion. Who knows what it will be, but they're are too many laws that someone can be hooked on. Mueller's history suggest indictment, no matter what, and no matter how many screw-ups in the investigation (Whitey Bulger). Plus, there's Uranium 1, that Mueller 100% had to know about.

Sessions and Huber could stop, or at the least, cause a detour because there's amazing evidence to review, but those two idiots believe eveyone at the DOJ is perfect, and won't make a move unless one of his employees fly a plane on video into a building!

So, my opinion is Sessions and Huber, at the very least, should consider Rosenstein, and over 100 other people, likely culpable for an investigation, instead of waiting for his boss to be dragged through an impeachment.

I was sure that I was going to open this thread to see a picture of Trump being marched out of the White House in chains given their reaction to a Manafort buddy getting hit with a FARA violation.

Off topic, is anyone else having a problem with the button to jump pages on a thread no longer working? I've tried it on two separate computers, and three browsers and I have to right click, and open in a new tab to go to any page beyond page one. Just started happening this afternoon.

I have, I closed all my internet and run a cleaner and it's now working properly.

Does anyone here believe that the real "bad actors" will face prosecution?
Sadly, I really don't. I also believe that if Mueller were to end this circus tomorrow, any investigations of bad actors, assuming there really are any now, will never happen.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035712034350948352.html

An interesting speculation by Imperator Rex: There exists a provision wherein the Attorney General (Lynch in this case) can issue an emergency FISA warrant for electronic surveillance, which then must be followed up by a FISA application to the FISC. Suppose Lynch did this, and then the paperwork was submitted to Judge Collyer, thereby essentially ensuring a rubber stamp approval without a hearing regarding Carter Page, the emergency being that the Russians were meddling in the US Presidential Election. Far fetched? Maybe. Worth a read.

drcrinum said:

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https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035712034350948352.html

An interesting speculation by Imperator Rex: There exists a provision wherein the Attorney General (Lynch in this case) can issue an emergency FISA warrant for electronic surveillance, which then must be followed up by a FISA application to the FISC. Suppose Lynch did this, and then the paperwork was submitted to Judge Collyer, thereby essentially ensuring a rubber stamp approval without a hearing regarding Carter Page, the emergency being that the Russians were meddling in the US Presidential Election. Far fetched? Maybe. Worth a read.

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I wonder if this is why Rice sent that e-mail to herself on Trump's inauguration day, to try to provide cover.

mrad85 said:

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Does anyone here believe that the real "bad actors" will face prosecution?
Sadly, I really don't. I also believe that if Mueller were to end this circus tomorrow, any investigations of bad actors, assuming there really are any now, will never happen.

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It's my opinion that the best we can hope for is all the bad actors at the top are washed out and the letter agencies are reformed. I've lost hope that anyone will ever be held accountable.

This thread keeps posting articles that confirm what we already know - the letter agencies went after trump to bring him down. But, nothing ever comes from it because no one has the guts, or they are compromised themselves, to actually do anything about it.

Cepe said:

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mrad85 said:

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Does anyone here believe that the real "bad actors" will face prosecution?
Sadly, I really don't. I also believe that if Mueller were to end this circus tomorrow, any investigations of bad actors, assuming there really are any now, will never happen.

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It's my opinion that the best we can hope for is all the bad actors at the top are washed out and the letter agencies are reformed. I've lost hope that anyone will ever be held accountable.

This thread keeps posting articles that confirm what we already know - the letter agencies went after trump to bring him down. But, nothing ever comes from it because no one has the guts, or they are compromised themselves, to actually do anything about it.

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This is exactly how the swamp wants you to feel. Hopeless.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4808119-Sentencing-Memorandum.html

Papadopoulos's 'Defendant's Sentencing Memorandum...very interesting read. Details of his interactions with the Trump Campaign and the FBI.

etcetera said:

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JIt isn't a bombshell at all. It's simply a part of the standard FISC procedures. And Judicial Watch knows that (unless JW is totally incompetent, which I doubt very much).

There's a lot of public information about FISA /FISC on the internet. It is hiding in plain sight. Google search found this in less than 2 seconds--> Excerpted from the pdf file link located on this webpage:

http://www.fisc.uscourts.gov/about-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court

Quote:

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Each week, one of the eleven district court judges who comprise the Court is on duty in
Washington. As discussed below, most of the Court's work is handled by the duty judge with the
assistance of attorneys and clerk's office personnel who staff the Court. Some of the Court's
more complex or time-consuming matters are handled by judges outside of the duty-week
system, at the discretion of the Presiding Judge. In either case, matters before the Court are
thoroughly reviewed and analyzed by the Court.

Rule 9(a) of the United States Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Rules of Procedure (FISC Rules of Procedure) requires that except in certain circumstances (i.e., a submission
pursuant to an emergency authorization under the statute or as otherwise permitted by the Court),
a proposed application must be submitted by the government no later than seven days before the
government seeks to have the matter entertained.

Upon the Court's receipt of a proposed
application for an order under FISA, a member of the Court's legal staff reviews the application
and evaluates whether it meets the legal requirements under the statute. As part of this
evaluation, a Court attorney will often have one or more telephone conversations with the
government to seek additional information and/or raise concerns about the application.

A Court attorney then prepares a written analysis of the application for the duty judge, which includes an
identification of any weaknesses, flaws, or other concerns. For example, the attorney may
recommend that the judge consider requiring the addition of information to the application;
imposing special reporting requirements; or shortening the requested duration of an authorization.

The judge then reviews the proposed application, as well as the attorney's written analysis. The judge typically makes a preliminary determination at that time about what course of action to take. These courses of action might include indicating to Court staff that he or she is prepared to approve the application without a hearing; indicating an inclination to impose conditions on the approval of the application; determining that additional information is needed about the application; or determining that a hearing would be appropriate before deciding whether to grant the application.

A staff attorney will then relay the judge's inclination to the government, and the government will typically proceed by providing additional information, or
by submitting a final application (sometimes with amendments, at the government's election) for
the Court's ruling pursuant to Rule 9(b) of the FISC Rules of Procedure.

In conjunction with its submission of a final application, the government has an opportunity to request a hearing, even if the judge did not otherwise intend to require one. The government might request a hearing, for example, to challenge conditions that the judge has indicated he or she would impose on the approval of an application.

If the judge schedules a hearing, the judge decides whether to approve the application thereafter.

Otherwise, the judge makes a determination based on the final written application submitted by the government. In approving an application, a judge will sometimes issue a Supplemental Order in addition to signing the government's proposed orders. Often, a Supplemental Order imposes some form of reporting requirement on the government.

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Open the pdf file at the link above to learn more about FISC procedures.

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This morning, Trump seems to think it was a big deal

And Trump seemed to realize this a couple of days ago when he said the Judge needs to hold a hearing about all of this...

Yup. Trump tweets again about it this morning, I think Trump believes this is a big deal

Thread on Papadopoulos Defendant's Sentencing Memorandum by former 7th Circuit Court judge & law professor.
(Unfortunately not linked after second tweet so threadreader won't work; you have to click on the above tweet to read.)

drcrinum said:

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Thread on Papadopoulos Defendant's Sentencing Memorandum by former 7th Circuit Court judge & law professor.
(Unfortunately not linked after second tweet so threadreader won't work; you have to click on the above tweet to read.)

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Operator error

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1035856377686712321.html

Most search warrants are obtained ex parte without a hearing anyway.

I do think that the argument there should be much closer scrutiny by the FISC judges and ask more questions is an excellent point, however. Since that is the only due process the FISA procedures provide...a judge taking the time to read and parse those applications. Even if not in an official hearing, at least hold the government's feet to the fire to justify that degree of intrusion in derogation of an American citizens' Constitutional rights.

I just hope the Obama administration is proven to have overstepped and surveilled some Congress Critters and reporters to light a fire under Congress to act and change the FISA laws.

Yeah the frenzy over the no hearing is pretty ridiculous. I've never even heard of a warrant hearing.

But the quality of evidence better be accurate and in case of a FISA the level of Probible Cause should be highly scrutinized

RoscoePColtrane said:

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I seriously doubt she will sue for libel/slander but I believe it would be entertaining.