Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts

7,487,083 Views | 49269 Replies | Last: 4 days ago by aggiehawg
fasthorse05
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Other than the "being done" part, which would be great, is there any culpability to Meuller?

I only ask for selfish and joyful emotions! I suspect Rosey is certainly breaking some kind of USC section 1-1000, along with the other schemers.
Hate is how progressives sustain themselves. Without hate, introspection begins to slip into the progressive's consciousness, threatening the progressive with the truth: that their ideas and opinions are illogical, hypocritical, dangerous, and asinine.
This is backed by data.
FJB
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Mueller's biggest tool was Fear. Glad to see that possibly evaporating with people calling his bluff.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
RoscoePColtrane said:

I'm fully convinced Rosey underneath that big redaction gave the Mulehead authorization for a counterintelligence investigation and also gave them FISA Title 1 surveillance warrant authority; which allowed Mulehead to retrieve all communications everything belonging to any person, entity or group, within two-hops of Carter Page. And that is why he's holding on ti it like a death grip. If that is true, Mulehead is done. Being counter intelligence instead of criminal the SC days are over.
Hence my suggestion that Trump get NSA and DNI to confirm what access, if any, Team Mueller has to meta-data or FISA warrant material. It's as if Mueller, like his bestie Comey, is channeling J. Edgar Hoover.
SeMgCo87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggiehawg said:

Thanks for posting the entire transcript. Can I just say, I LOVE THIS JUDGE!! He's hysterically funny. Sardonic wit. And he gave both counsels some grief. Dreeben received the bulk of it, though.

His familiarity with the old Independent Counsel regime and what the innate problems were with that is priceless.

Dreeben went down the wrong road claiming it was a counter-intelligence operation and classified. Judge reminded him that he had SCIF in the court house. CIPA is the Classified Information Procedures Act, BTW. And obviously something the judge isn't particularly fond of. But the bottom line is this.

One way or another, this judge is going to see unredacted documents and damn the intelligence community if they try to stop him.
So, Hawg, I have but one question for you...

After just listening to Judge Jeanine deliver her opening monologue, are you writing for her?
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
No. LOL. I never watch her. Did she echo my thoughts?
drcrinum
How long do you want to ignore this user?


Just coming to post it. Priceless!!
RoscoePColtrane
How long do you want to ignore this user?
fasthorses05 said:

Other than the "being done" part, which would be great, is there any culpability to Meuller?

I only ask for selfish and joyful emotions! I suspect Rosey is certainly breaking some kind of USC section 1-1000, along with the other schemers.
Only in the fact that he knows better, that the SC cannot be used for counter intelligence purposes. He's suppose to be investigating a crime of which there never was one, even in the premise of the appointment on record. Collusion isn't a crime, and the obstruction of justice garbage is just that. Unless altered some evidense or obstructed justice himself, all he ends up with no legacy to brag about. Would love to se him disbarred for conduct, but that may be a reach.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
SeMgCo87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggiehawg said:

No. LOL. I never watch her. Did she echo my thoughts?
Pretty much!

She had a very controlled anger "undertone" that eerily reminded me of some of your recent posts. She was really *****-slapping the Mueller Team in every. Single. Sentence.
SeMgCo87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
And, she ended her monologue demanding that it was time to end the Mueller / Rosenstein cabal.

Now where have I heard that word before...?
2004FIGHTINTXAG
How long do you want to ignore this user?
First time caller but long time listener of this thread.

After yesterday, I'm 1000% convinced this sh**t investigation is BS!
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
One other thing Dreeben said that could come back to bite Mueller in the butt. In arguing that the SC had advanced the puny case the EDVA had amassed (puny being my word but the condescension was palpable) and thus it "arose" from the Mueller investigation, Dreeben opened the door * on counter-intel sources and methods (FISA and the like) being used in a criminal prosecution against an American citizen, not accused of being a terrorist.

A point, I might add, that I doubt was missed by the judge, hence his foray into his experiences at a conference at GreenBriar with other Independent Prosecutors years back, including mentioning that Archibald Cox was his old law professor. The differing standards and burdens of proof between criminal proceedings and getting a FISA warrant or submitting an unmasking query raise a stark contrast wherein the 4th Amendment comes into play. (Unless Manafort was being charged with something like espionage, that is.)

* "opened the door" is often used as justification during trial when a party objects to a line of questioning (on cross examination or rebuttal, usually) and the judge points to the party objecting having raised the issue in their own examination of the witness as having "opened the door," objection overruled.
MouthBQ98
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
So, basically If this ever even made it to trial and the defense began to argue much or most of the evidence was improperly obtained, and the prosecution objects, the defense can just point out the prosecution brought up the counterintelligence nature of the investigation first.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Ok kiddos. I'm sitting down with a half decent glass of red and a copy of the May 4, 2018 transcript. I'll write up a post and probably basically just tell you what Hawg already told you. Still, though, hold on to your butts.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
MouthBQ98 said:

So, basically If this ever even made it to trial and the defense began to argue much or most of the evidence was improperly obtained, and the prosecution objects, the defense can just point out the prosecution brought up the counterintelligence nature of the investigation first.
Bingo! Not to mention pre-trial motions to suppress. Manafort's lawyers have already filed to suppress evidence from the searches on the jurisdiction issue. Now an additional ground for suppression of potential evidence has been opened up. They get another bite at the apple, so to speak. Particularly so on the prosecution's witness list.

Which is one of the reasons why I don't think the EDVA would try to refile charges if Judge Ellis does end up tossing the current case in whole.

ETA: There are also issues with reversible error on appeal depending on how the judge rules here.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
blindey said:

Ok kiddos. I'm sitting down with a half decent glass of red and a copy of the May 4, 2018 transcript. I'll write up a post and probably basically just tell you what Hawg already told you. Still, though, hold on to your butts.
Glad to have your input. I'll be waiting.

You will enjoy this transcript!
Convincingly
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I see the words two hopped Carter Paige, which I assume means since the fisa warrant was on him then anyone he talked to you would also fall under the warrant??

Which if true then Paige had to be a plant right??

I remember reading the service academy he attended, to gain admittance one had to be recommended by someone of power in the government. Do y'all know who wrote the recommendation??
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Quote:

I see the words two hopped Carter Paige, which I assume means since the fisa warrant was on him then anyone he talked to you would also fall under the warrant??
And anyone they talked to would be subject to unmasking. Thus the "two" in reference to hops.
drcrinum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Fxbrad said:

I see the words two hopped Carter Paige, which I assume means since the fisa warrant was on him then anyone he talked to you would also fall under the warrant??

Which if true then Paige had to be a plant right??

I remember reading the service academy he attended, to gain admittance one had to be recommended by someone of power in the government. Do y'all know who wrote the recommendation??
Page wasn't a plant -- he was 'convenient'. I suggest you read his testimony before the HPSCI and the attachments which include letters he wrote. He has a history of being a FBI informant and has connections with the CIA. He also has multiple civil suits against the dossier players.

Regarding plants...Papadopoulos was very likely a plant, and Manafort maybe, but Manafort is for Manafort first.
drcrinum
How long do you want to ignore this user?


Quote:

...In a blunt response Saturday morning, Concord's attorneys accused Mueller's team of ignoring the court's rules and suggesting a special procedure for the Russian firm without any supporting legal authority.

"Defendant voluntarily appeared through counsel as provided for in [federal rules], and further intends to enter a plea of not guilty. Defendant has not sought a limited appearance nor has it moved to quash the summons. As such, the briefing sought by the Special Counsel's motion is pettifoggery," Dubelier and Seikaly wrote.


New one for me, although the legals would know this word: pettifoggery -- to bicker or quibble over trifles or unimportant matters.
There are probably better definitions in the legal dictionary.


sam callahan
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Okay Aggiehawg and Roscoe, lets get the Texags legal dream team organized and file a class action suit against Mueller, Rosenstein, Coney and all of their teams on behalf of the American taxpayers to hold them personally liable for the money wasted on this whole escapade.
drcrinum
How long do you want to ignore this user?

aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
sam callahan said:

Okay Aggiehawg and Roscoe, lets get the Texags legal dream team organized and file a class action suit against Mueller, Rosenstein, Coney and all of their teams on behalf of the American taxpayers to hold them personally liable for the money wasted on this whole escapade.
Nice thought, but not feasible. Sovereign immunity and that extends to government officials in their official capacity.

(Not saying they can never be held civilly liable, just that a class action suit is not available as a remedy.)
thirdcoast
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Isn't Mueller just doing his job like Ken Starr?

It's the Dems in House Judiciary Committee that essentially forced Rod R. to assign Mueller. Maybe Rod should have established some boundaries or better scoped Mueller's role.
SeMgCo87
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggiehawg said:

Quote:

I see the words two hopped Carter Paige, which I assume means since the fisa warrant was on him then anyone he talked to you would also fall under the warrant??
And anyone they talked to would be subject to unmasking. Thus the "two" in reference to hops.
A numerical example of Hawg's statement:

If Page knows / contacts 50 people, and each of those people contacts 30 people, that is 1,501 people under investigation...phone taps, surveillence, cell phone, e-mail capture... 2 hops. Anybody on here know someone who knows Carter Page?

Basically this is 2 degrees separation...and look at the connections that can be made to Kevin Bacon with 6 degrees of separation.

This mierda gets spooky very fast...
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
drcrinum said:



Uhhm, yes and no. A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. Mueller would have authority to convene a grand jury under Rosenstein's appointment letter, if the subject he then presented to them is within the purview of his assigned task.

What Manafort did as a political consultant for the Ukrainian government a decade ago is outside of that purview, is the argument.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Below are my notes in real time as I read the transcript. After the next dotted line are a couple of reactions.

This could not have gone worse for team Mueller.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right out of the gate, the judge has questions for Mueller's team about the fact that the crimes alleged predate Mueller's appointment.

From experience as a federal briefing clerk, I can tell you that the judge has a bench memo in his hands that is extensive and designed to needle both sides on very specific issues. The judge and his law clerks worked hard on this. They've studied and done their homework. They will not miss anything.

Another note from the perspective of motion practice: the judge notes that it's the defendant's motion and that his counsel is up first to argue in support. But he immediately cuts counsel off to chase after team Mueller and gets curt very quick when Drebeen tries to equivocate. The fact that the court offered its opinion on what it thinks is going on right off the bat says a lot, too.

The Court pulls no punches about Drebeen's equivocation and refusal to answer questions.

This exchange actually says a lot to me, though it doesn't seem particularly pertinent to what went down today:
Quote:

THE COURT: Does that include financial? Ithink you were given $10 million to begin with.MR. DREEBEN: We have proposed a budget andhad a budget approved.THE COURT: Of $10 million?MR. DREEBEN: I believe that's correct.THE COURT: Have you spent that yet?MR. DREEBEN: I am not in a position to talkabout what our budget is.THE COURT: Are you in a position to tell mewhen the investigation will be over?MR. DREEBEN: I am not, Your Honor.
Put a little more succinctly, the judge thinks this stinks and he wants to know if this the farce it appears to be or if there is anything of actual substance. Mueller and co ought to be on notice.

The Court's discussion about chairing the judicial conference at the Greenbriar about special prosecutors is a MAJOR shot across the bow. Bad move by Debreen trying to push back on that saying the special prosecutor authority has changed since then like the judge doesn't know. Comes across like a punk.

This quote about the August memo killed me:
Quote:

THE COURT: Yes. I have that right here, and I'm glad you raised it because 75 percent of it is blocked out, redacted. Why don't I have a full copy of it?

MR. DREEBEN: The only paragraphs that are pertinent to Mr. Manafort are the ones that are contained in this record.

THE COURT: Well, let me use a phrase that I'm fond of that I used to use with my children. I can't use it with my wife, but I'll be the judge of whether it relates to the others. I think you should give me under seal to be sure -- and you can do it ex parte if you wish -- under seal, ex parte a comple tecopy of the August 2, and I'll be the judge of whether it has anything to do with Mr. Manafort.
Read through defense counsel argument. Nothing too crazy, judge had a few questions that weren't softballs but they weren't laser guided bombs like earlier in the hearing towards Debreen.

Getting to Debreen's argument, he calls this a confidential, sensitive counterintelligence investigation. WFT???

The whole "come on, man" was something that the judge asked his briefing clerks to put together. Or they were batting around ideas in chambers as to the best analogy to make for that, and one of them recalled the ESPN show.

Here's Debreen's statement that actually translates to, "This is all bull****, you've called our bluff, and we have nothing:

Quote:

As a result, the specifics of the investigation were conveyed to us not on the face of the May 17 order but in interaction with the acting attorney general. He explained this in his testimony in just these terms, simply could not be made public. I think Your Honor would agree that it's not appropriate for the government to disclose specific subjects of an investigation when those matters may never result in a charge and when they could jeopardize ongoing criminal investigations, as well as reveal national security matters. That was the only point that I was trying to make one. (b)(i) is not the factual statement
WOW. That is the admission. "We had to hide it from the public because national security."

This quote tells me that the judge is going to nuke team Mueller:

Quote:

THE COURT: It factually did not arise from the investigation. Now, saying it could have arised under it is another matter, but factually, it's very clear. This was an ongoing investigation. You all got it from the Department of Justice. You're pursuing it.Now I had speculated about why you're really interested in it in this case. You don't really care about Mr. Manafort's bank fraud. Well, the government does.You really care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you that would reflect on Mr. Trump or lead to his prosecution or impeachment or whatever. That's what you're really interested in.
Judges don't make statements like that on record on the bench. EVER. Especially not about a case pending in his court.

This quote is another twist of the knife:

Quote:

THE COURT: Of course, the difference is that if you did assign it to the Eastern District of Virginia, it wouldn't come, Mr. Asonye, with a$10 million budget; would it?
Notice that he asks that question to the local counsel that he knows, Mr. Asoyne, not to Debreen. That is important. The judge knows who he wants to talk to (and that is a message to team Mueller, by the way).

The judges comments on the NY/Cohen matter are also really clear: he thinks they're a bunch of political hacks, not investigators faithfully carrying out their duties.

Closing words to Debreen:

Quote:

THE COURT: All right. I'll take the matterunder advisement.Did you wish to respond to this last point?MR. DREEBEN: No thank you, Your Honor,unless you have any questions.
THE COURT: Good choice on your part.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The judge thinks that team Mueller is out of control with an unlimited budget run by people with an agenda.

He's not happy about the August memo being withheld from him at all.

Here's the crux of the matter: he's extremely suspicious about the argument that the DOJ couldn't tell the public what they were really doing because of "national security." That is the ultimate admission Debreen made today: we're making it all up and we are using FISA while we're at it. Damn.

Long story short, Judge Ellis is going to get answers. Period. The only way out at this point is Arkancide. But the judge himself is the best protection. Have him murdered and it's painfully obvious.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Exactly what Snowden was alarmed about. Now as a practical matter, not all of those contacts are unmasked.

But they could be.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggiehawg said:

blindey said:

Ok kiddos. I'm sitting down with a half decent glass of red and a copy of the May 4, 2018 transcript. I'll write up a post and probably basically just tell you what Hawg already told you. Still, though, hold on to your butts.
Glad to have your input. I'll be waiting.

You will enjoy this transcript!
TLDR: they ded.

Some of the stuff that the judge said on the record was absolutely astounding. I've known judges to get mouthy, but WOW. I mean WOW.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Fun read, wasn't it?
oysterbayAG
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
I'm thinking that on the Judicial Coctail Circuit the buzz is that Judges are getting embarrassed and concerned about what Mueller is doing !
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
aggiehawg said:

Fun read, wasn't it?
I've read some crazy **** in my career and I'm still sitting here trying to get my warehouse guy on the phone so I can get him over with a forklift to get my jaw off the floor.

I mean all of that stuff is on the record. This is what team Mueller ought to look like after that went down:

aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
blindey said:

aggiehawg said:

blindey said:

Ok kiddos. I'm sitting down with a half decent glass of red and a copy of the May 4, 2018 transcript. I'll write up a post and probably basically just tell you what Hawg already told you. Still, though, hold on to your butts.
Glad to have your input. I'll be waiting.

You will enjoy this transcript!
TLDR: they ded.

Some of the stuff that the judge said on the record was absolutely astounding. I've known judges to get mouthy, but WOW. I mean WOW.
Judge Frank Monroe, bankruptcy judge in Austin was like that. Some idiot junior lawyer was sent in one time to argue a 9th Circuit opinion in case where the bankruptcy court, HIS court, had been defrauded, about the discharge preventing a subsequent civil case for damages.

After the dweeb got finished with his presentation and opposing counsel rose to argue his position, Judge Monroe told him, "Sit down, I know what you are going to say and I already agree with you. Waste of my time. I don't care what the 9th Circuit says."

Talked with the lawyer who was told to sit down afterwards and he said, "I've been told my many a judge to sit down but that's the first time I have been instructed to sit down before I even opened my mouth!" And he was an old guy, been practicing for nearly 50 years at that point.
ThunderCougarFalconBird
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
Funny story about Frank Monroe - I was trained as a junior lawyer by Schinfeld alums. Work turned in with citations to the 9th Circuit/9th Circuit BAP was...to put it conservatively....not well received.
aggiehawg
How long do you want to ignore this user?
AG
blindey said:

Funny story about Frank Monroe - I was trained as a junior lawyer by Schinfeld alums. Work turned in with citations to the 9th Circuit/9th Circuit BAP was...to put it conservatively....not well received.
Yeah. But if they were on point, you had to include them. Ye olde "majority view" versus the "minority view" thingy.

When the 9th was the only circuit to have ruled in a case on point, then you had a problem.
drcrinum
How long do you want to ignore this user?
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/05/05/special-counsel-tells-federal-court-rosenstein-investigative-scope-was-detailed-in-super-secret-verbal-instructions/

Quote:

Special Counsel Tells Federal Court Rosenstein Investigative Scope Was Detailed in Super-Secret Verbal Instructions

...On Page 32 of the transcript, while trying to specify how the initiating special counsel mandate has bearing upon a decades-old banking/tax case, U.S. Attorney Dreeben tells Judge Ellis the detailed instructions were delivered in person:

Quote:

Yeah, no.

The judge wasn't buying it, and neither are the American public.

Quote:

...Special Counsel Robert Mueller began his investigation of Russian interference and the possibility of Trump campaign collusion, right where the 2016 and 2017 FBI counterintelligence operation left-off. This is additionally supported by reviewing the original investigative instructions as outlined by Rod Rosenstein the day Robert Mueller was appointed as Special Counsel:

Quote:

The key phrase here is: "to serve as Special Counsel to oversee the previously-confirmed FBI investigation of Russian government efforts to influence the 2016 presidential election" Here, Rosenstein is clearly instructing Robert Mueller to pick-up the former Counterintelligence Investigation previously headed by FBI Asst. Director of Counterintelligence Bill Priestap, and his #2 FBI Agent Peter Strzok....


I missed this earlier. It's right there in the original investigative instructions -- Mueller's authority to continue the previous FBI counterintelligence investigation. That can't be legal. Rosenstein gave Mueller 'unfettered power".

First Page Last Page
Page 332 of 1408
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.