The irony ... Rosenstein's memo May 9, 2017 enumerating Comey's many misdeeds supportive of his termination.aggiehawg said:
Also says Rosenstein is likely a witness in any obstruction case and must recuse himself.
Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts
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Last: 1 day ago by will25u
And has been since Day One of Mueller's investigation. Rosenstein is also a witness in the Carter Page FISA-gate, since he (presumably) read and signed off on the last renewal of the FISA warrant.benchmark said:The irony ... Rosenstein's memo May 9, 2017 enumerating Comey's many misdeeds supportive of his termination.aggiehawg said:
Also says Rosenstein is likely a witness in any obstruction case and must recuse himself.
I am relieved to see most of the legal pundits are looking at the August 2, 2017 Rosenstein memo to Mueller with eyebrows raised to their hairlines. A true WTH? moment. More problematical than explanatory.
I have seen some speculation that the redacted portions may contain reference to "facts" discovered from the Manafort raid. That would be very problematical. Law enforcement doesn't get to fill in the blanks for a search warrant after the search has already occurred. Blatant Fourth Amendment issue.
OTOH, if the redacted portions contain information from either the Steele dossier or materials gleaned from the Carter Page FISA warrant (which is looking more and more illegal) there's another fruit of the poisonous tree argument to be made.
Of course the caveat that we don't know what all Mueller and Rosenstein know but after this amount of time, if there was a smoking gun, we would have seen it by now. The fact that there are even classified portions of this memo imply Mueller is running a hybrid of a counter-intelligence and a criminal investigation. Even that is questionable on a legal basis. We don't have Special Counsels for counter-intel.
Consequently the only dots we are left with to connect do not reflect well on either Mueller nor Rosenstein.
And both potential uh-ohs are Rosenstein do-loop circle jerks.aggiehawg said:
.... I have seen some speculation that the redacted portions may contain reference to "facts" discovered from the Manafort raid. ....... or materials gleaned from the Carter Page FISA warrant ....
And the motion is unopposed by Team Mueller. Just a three day extension, BTW.Quote:
Seems Manafort's lawyers are requesting a short delay in response to a 45 page drop by Team Mueller including the newly released but heavily redacted secret Rosenstein Memo to Mueller.
This is incredible. I want the best for our country. Right now Mueller and Rosenstein are leading the biggest political fraud of all time.
I seem to recall along the way that Mueller created a new Federal Crime called " Conspiracy Against The United States " Am I right ?
It is a slow motion coup d'etat.
Yeah. In the Manafort indictment(s). The first one was a hot mess, disjointed narrative, time line all over the place, even charging Manafort with two crimes over a single act, or so it kind of appeared to do so. It was that big of a mess it was hard to tell exactly which crime he was alleging was committed.oysterbayAG said:
I seem to recall along the way that Mueller created a new Federal Crime called " Conspiracy Against The United States " Am I right ?
But the superceding indictment also used the same language. Dershowitz has long had a problem with that language as it implies espionage without any facts that give rise to an actual espionage case.
Two party system claims another one.Lot Y Tailgate said:Rapier108 said:
It is a slow motion coup d'etat.
How is it a coup? Mueller can't do anything to Trump, only Congress can, and if the Republican House and senate were willing to remove him then that is their constitutional right, not a coup.
Lot Y Tailgate said:
Anyone calling this a coup is doing so because they don't have any arguments left.
I'd be banned if I typed what I actually think of you. I'll go with intellectually dishonest for now.
Not a coup, though that result would be a huge bonus for the progressive resisters promoting this whole absurdity in the background. They are more hoping to seriously damage Trump's ability to govern and do his job, and endlessly distract him and hinder the progress of his administration in implementing policy, while also burying or glossing over serious and deep running corruption issues from the previous administration that had almost escaped notice and further scrutiny. Stuff that could give Dems a serious black eye, and make their sycophantic media look incompetent as well.
Rapier108 said:
It is a slow motion coup d'etat.
Agree. It is called treason.
Completely disagree here. There are plenty of GOP senators who would vote to remove Trump from office. Republicans have fought Trump from the moment he announced his candidacy. I am not saying it will happen, but I also think it is short-sighted to say it's impossible. A very high percentage of DC wants Trump gone and there is no legal bar for impeachment. With a compliant media, the political class can remove him from office for just about anything. Hell, people like you actually make the argument Trump firing the FBI director is "obstruction of justice" with a straight face.Quote:
Unless dems pick up 18(?) Senate seats all these fears are unfounded
Never fails slow day elsewhere and the resident trolls get back in this thread.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Best to avoid them. This thread has good information but when things are breaking they are not around.
Oh I have them on ignore, but the greyed out stop sign still shows when they are here.
Never take a hostage you aren't willing to shoot,
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
Remember, America doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.
Code 7 10-42
The resident lib trolls hate this thread. It's a wonder they haven't infested it more often then they have.
I think the initial hope was that they could get enough compromising material against Trump and Pence that they would resign before taking office and before the Electoral College finalized the results of the election in December. Failing to get their resignations, create enough of a scandal to move the EC to Hillary.
As stupid as that sounds, for True Believers that Trump was Satan with a combover and would destroy the country, it would be a noble goal.
As stupid as that sounds, for True Believers that Trump was Satan with a combover and would destroy the country, it would be a noble goal.
The mods seem less tolerant with them trying to hijack this thread and/or take it off topic than they do with others. Same for the Q thread.Rockdoc said:
The resident lib trolls hate this thread. It's a wonder they haven't infested it more often then they have.
That is giving them way too much credit. The same cabal consistently enabled Obama's America enfeebling FP and one that advanced the Islamist advantage more than the first world's.aggiehawg said:
I think the initial hope was that they could get enough compromising material against Trump and Pence that they would resign before taking office and before the Electoral College finalized the results of the election in December. Failing to get their resignations, create enough of a scandal to move the EC to Hillary.
As stupid as that sounds, for True Believers that Trump was Satan with a combover and would destroy the country, it would be a noble goal.
There is no way a Saudi reformer would be getting support or have this kind of nerve under the prior admins to take the risk to try to yank them away from the same literalist shipwreck that claimed Iran in the same year 1979.
I think they are using this "probe" to gather evidence and use it against Trump for the duration of his presidency. Exactly, what they accuse Russia of already having done.
They know they can't impeach him without all hell breaking loose, but they are trying to control him.
All of the Republicans that were part of the dossier and other "shady" tactics are in that boat IMO.
They know they can't impeach him without all hell breaking loose, but they are trying to control him.
All of the Republicans that were part of the dossier and other "shady" tactics are in that boat IMO.
Come on, do you seriously think even those nerve-less wonders (the italics) would remove Trump from office after the center and right has seen and heard the Left 24/7 try to remove all border limits and confiscate guns, racially divide, and basically just shows themselves as socialists waiting to complete the full transition to "great leap forward' youth Marxism of Mao?GCP12 said:Completely disagree here. There are plenty of GOP senators who would vote to remove Trump from office. Republicans have fought Trump from the moment he announced his candidacy. I am not saying it will happen, but I also think it is short-sighted to say it's impossible. A very high percentage of DC wants Trump gone and there is no legal bar for impeachment. With a compliant media, the political class can remove him from office for just about anything. Hell, people like you actually make the argument Trump firing the FBI director is "obstruction of justice" with a straight face.Quote:
Unless dems pick up 18(?) Senate seats all these fears are unfounded
And if they do, they are finished. They have no idea how instantly the Center Right and committed Right that is not just blind-GOP voting will desert and punish them for it by backing whatever new party that is anti submission to the Left comes into being. (The Libertarians knot this up by often having loose views about the border and the foreign policy, so it will be a new one.)
Titan, I agree with your sentiments, but that is not reality.
The MSM had half the country ( and a lot of Rs) believing that Putin won the election for Trump.
It is not about reality, it is about the narrative they can use to control the polity.
The MSM had half the country ( and a lot of Rs) believing that Putin won the election for Trump.
It is not about reality, it is about the narrative they can use to control the polity.
Evidence be damned!
True enough, but even if it wasn't indicated by surveys, something like 70% doesn't credit the media any more, and rightly so. (You can only wonder what percent on the Right gives the MSM any credit at all now after such 24/7 partisan behavior since Nov 8th)scottimus said:
Titan, I agree with your sentiments, but that is not reality.
The MSM had half the country ( and a lot of Rs) believing that Putin won the election for Trump.
It is not about reality, it is about the narrative they can use to control the polity.
In any case, what I am talking about is there is no way, no possible way, the wobbling GOPe survives if they impeach Trump. They did so little with the power given to date, the new party will absolutely take their place. On fury alone if nothing else. You can bank on it. Its like the reaction to `they aren't going to take our guns even if CW2 is on the table". That is what talking about. The GOPe must stand with Trump, not the manufactured hit job against him, or they will lose massively and permanently over time as the rising competitors finally get a fuller hearing.
Well the first thing Mueller wants to do is keep this going at mid terms. He'll release his "report" a week or two before the elections to throw as much shade as he can, trying to swing the election. They're so worried that the Russians would have an effect on an election, but they WANT Mueller to be able to have an effect on an election. The second thing he wants to do is be able to keep the impeachment theme going strong for the dems and never trumpers. They may try to impeach trump because they don't like his hair.scottimus said:
I think they are using this "probe" to gather evidence and use it against Trump for the duration of his presidency. Exactly, what they accuse Russia of already having done.
They know they can't impeach him without all hell breaking loose, but they are trying to control him.
All of the Republicans that were part of the dossier and other "shady" tactics are in that boat IMO.
Something needs to be done about mr mueller. Either produce a crime or get out. Now.
Is it? Think about the connections between Fusion GPS and the now infamous Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitskaya? Smelled like a set-up but for what purpose? June 2016 before the Republican Convention where Trump would formally get the nomination.Quote:
That is giving them way too much credit. The same cabal consistently enabled Obama's America enfeebling FP and one that advanced the Islamist advantage more than the first world's.
There is no way a Saudi reformer would be getting support or have this kind of nerve under the prior admins to take the risk to try to yank them away from the same literalist shipwreck that claimed Iran in the same year 1979.
Was that to get a FISA warrant on Manafort? Kushner? Don, Jr.? Maybe even Trump himself, had he been present??
When I was reviewing Comey's Senate testimony from June 2017 earlier today he made references to other sources that he couldn't discuss in an open setting. Nor did he ever inform the Gang of Eight of the existence of the Trump/Russia probe for months and months, much less who they had FISA warrants on pursuant to that.
Mueller doesn't have to write a report of his findings. He can have the grand jury issue a report.Quote:
Well the first thing Mueller wants to do is keep this going at mid terms. He'll release his "report" a week or two before the elections to throw as much shade as he can, trying to swing the election. They're so worried that the Russians would have an effect on an election, but they WANT Mueller to be able to have an effect on an election. The second thing he wants to do is be able to keep the impeachment theme going strong for the dems and never trumpers. They may try to impeach trump because they don't like his hair.
Something needs to be done about mr mueller. Either produce a crime or get out. Now.
I just heard on the radio news that he may wtite multiple reports of trumps actions since being in office.aggiehawg said:Mueller doesn't have to write a report of his findings. He can have the grand jury issue a report.Quote:
Well the first thing Mueller wants to do is keep this going at mid terms. He'll release his "report" a week or two before the elections to throw as much shade as he can, trying to swing the election. They're so worried that the Russians would have an effect on an election, but they WANT Mueller to be able to have an effect on an election. The second thing he wants to do is be able to keep the impeachment theme going strong for the dems and never trumpers. They may try to impeach trump because they don't like his hair.
Something needs to be done about mr mueller. Either produce a crime or get out. Now.
Since there is no statute addressing the subject, he can do what he wants. Write a report and give it to Rosenstein to release it. Write a Starr length narrative and let Congress release it. Write a Jaworski "index" to troves of documents and exhibits. Or have the grand jury (or juries) write one or more reports.Quote:
I just heard on the radio news that he may wtite multiple reports of trumps actions since being in office.
From an impeachment standpoint, having the grand jury issue the report might carry more weight, IMO.
Yes, true, but to clarify this was the part I was take exception to:aggiehawg said:Is it? Think about the connections between Fusion GPS and the now infamous Trump Tower meeting with Veselnitskaya? Smelled like a set-up but for what purpose? June 2016 before the Republican Convention where Trump would formally get the nomination.Quote:
That is giving them way too much credit. The same cabal consistently enabled Obama's America enfeebling FP and one that advanced the Islamist advantage more than the first world's.
There is no way a Saudi reformer would be getting support or have this kind of nerve under the prior admins to take the risk to try to yank them away from the same literalist shipwreck that claimed Iran in the same year 1979.
Was that to get a FISA warrant on Manafort? Kushner? Don, Jr.? Maybe even Trump himself, had he been present??
When I was reviewing Comey's Senate testimony from June 2017 earlier today he made references to other sources that he couldn't discuss in an open setting. Nor did he ever inform the Gang of Eight of the existence of the Trump/Russia probe for months and months, much less who they had FISA warrants on pursuant to that.
Quote:
As stupid as that sounds, for True Believers that Trump was Satan with a combover and would destroy the country, it would be a noble goal.
It is giving them too much credit to assume they were good. They were already pursuing agendas harmful to the country.
I'm just wondering if he's personally considering writing a memo because he has nothing else to go to th JG with.aggiehawg said:Since there is no statute addressing the subject, he can do what he wants. Write a report and give it to Rosenstein to release it. Write a Starr length narrative and let Congress release it. Write a Jaworski "index" to troves of documents and exhibits. Or have the grand jury (or juries) write one or more reports.Quote:
I just heard on the radio news that he may wtite multiple reports of trumps actions since being in office.
From an impeachment standpoint, having the grand jury issue the report might carry more weight, IMO.
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